code_geass | Warning: nerdiness ahead

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Warning: nerdiness ahead

Hello all! This is my first post to this community, even though I've been lurking for several weeks.

Unfortunately, I bear no gifts. Instead I have a transcription of what I thought is interesting in ep.7 on Suzaku's textbook.

The dots represent missing text and brackets represent my own words.

"... of Henry IX, son of the great [Elizabeth I?]... flourished as never before.
While other European countries stagnated assailed by waves of people's revolutions and parliamentarization, England held fast to absolute monarchy, and saw continued development through the reigns of King Henry X and Edward VI thanks to the wealth produced by the New World."

This tells us that Britannia came from an England that never gave way to constitutional monarchy. From the sounds of it in ep.3 and here, Queen Elizabeth I did marry and had a son named Henry IX, who doesn't actually exist in our world. So there would've been no Act of Union between Scotland and England and the English Civil War would not have happened. The kings after him are pretty powerful rulers too and that could be why the American revolution didn't happen or was won by the British.

Sorry for the extreme nerdiness there, but I've always liked British royal family history, even fictional ones. ^^;; I hope it's not too spam-ish.

By the way am I the only one who is grateful that they have someone who knows English to write these things?

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Theory confirmed!

Yes! Totally confirmed. XD

As for the language thing, it always amuses me when the underlings say "Yes, your Highness!" or "Yes, my lord!". It's like the little phrases of Japanese you read in fanfics.

You're right about the name thing. The half-brothers and sisters seem to be separated by their names' nationality (Schneizel is probably Clovis's brother, I mean, for a long time I thought Schneizel from the opening IS Clovis). Though I wonder if there are still nobles/princesses from the EEU (or is it EU?) countries that are still in power. Is it much like modern Europe or is it a step further and every single country is governed by domacracy? Are they even separate countries anymore?

If Ureshi-Shinsen's subbing is correct in that Marianne's maiden name is Ashford (gg's sub doesn't agree), then wouldn't Millay be French too? Student Council Maid Cafe!

The director said he wanted the American continent (understandable, you'd have trouble attacking Japan from Europe), but that didn't have to mean America. It's a little delicate, but STILL.

I know. XD And it's a little confusing what language they're using in there. XD

I'm not sure...we have no idea how the democratic revolutions went in the EEU/EU. Perhaps, say, like France...they say Marianne's family wasn't nobility at first. Perhaps they overthrew the royal system but created a new class of burgoisie? Half-noble, half-merchant-ish, but powerful nonetheless? I'd say most EU could be a somewhat like how it is today, though. It's too diversified to ever come together like the United States, but every/most country are democratic monarchies? Like England/Sweden/et cetera today?

If American independence never occured, then modern democracy would have to be born in France wouldn't it?... That is, if French history did not alter too much due to changes of the English ones. I can sort of see France as pretty much as it is today, and Marianne came from a wealthy family or family of high political standing (enough that the emperor would want to marry her out of political reasons). She may even be related to nobility of other European countries. Her noble status can come after her marriage to the emperor.

It just occured to me that in one of C.C.'s pictures we see something like WWI. So maybe the history of the rest of Europe didn't change that much... Though to answer our question, we probably need to know if WWII went pretty much the way ours did.

It's too diversified to ever come together

I agree, there're just too many countries.

Yep. France seems like the most likely place for it. I agree with you here, and also : The English history changes probably changes France, too, but probably in making it stronger as an 'adversary' to Britain, I think. As in, while England gobbles up territories like no tomorrow and everyone else ends up losing territory, the French could probably figure it's better to wise up and join in a coalition against imperialism, hence the EEU. If they don't cooperate and cut their colonial losses to protect themselves, Britain could probably attack them.

Re : WWII. I'm trying to figure out how that history went myself. I've thought WWI probably occurred, since the map showed Burma (my neighbouring country) as non-Britannian, and they freed themselves from colonial rule due to political treatypulling post-WWI. WWII, though...considering the Japanese still seemed to have a military and still carried katanas in the army, I wondered if it ever happened. Or if it did...it might be confined to the European theater. They sure had time to come up with Godzilla, though! Even if we must mourn the passing of whoever the Google brothers' ancestors were, as Biglobe seemed to have became the best search engine...

As in, while England gobbles up territories like no tomorrow and everyone else ends up losing territory, the French could probably figure it's better to wise up and join in a coalition against imperialism, hence the EEU.

This comment is having me think in circles since in both WWI and WWII, Britain and France are allies... @_@ Also the possibility of having more wars over the colonies then they actually did. Maybe that's how the World Wars started, too many offensive acts by Britain in the colonies. They do have to take over Central America and possiblly South America eventually.

WWII, though...considering the Japanese still seemed to have a military and still carried katanas in the army, I wondered if it ever happened. Or if it did...it might be confined to the European theater.

Good point. Maybe they didn't try to take over Korea and China, or failed to. Or they didn't attack Pearl Harbor. Or maybe they started one again? There must've been signs of war before Britannia attacked.

Godzilla? Where?

As for Google, I say they somehow offended the royalties by being too liberal and was shut down. XD

That's a good possibility. South America was theirs in the map, IIRC, so they probably won't be on good terms with most of continental Europe. Some of them could try to join up and kick Britain's ass and got their asses kicked instead...though I have NO IDEA who'd be the allies and the axis in this war. @_@ Hmmm...maybe Cornelia attacking the desert in Ep. 5 was just her taking back old lands freed in the WWs, and naming them as Area for the system's sake?

The 'neutrals' in Asia seemed well willing to attack it, though. Neutral-aligned usually just let the attacker stock their weapons/transport troops at most, but here they're being ACTIVE. We don't even do that with America. It's possible if they'd attacked SE/E Asia but didn't do Pearl Harbor, and Nazi Germany might not even be around...if so, haha, what a huge ironic mess. The imperialist rule they're having here is quite so similar to the one they were trying to impose on most of Asia. I'd sure like to talk to Suzaku about this.

Godzilla or Godzillalike creature...Episode 5, when Yuffie visits Shinjuku, there's a few toys. It's recognizably Godzilla or Godzilla-inspired.

Re Nina : Einstein does seem to like Japan, though. It IS a sullying of a good name...but I have no idea what Japan feels about him. And er, since it's assumed Japan didn't get nuked, did we ever have nukes and/or did the Cold War happen here?

The 'neutrals' in Asia seemed well willing to attack it, though. Neutral-aligned usually just let the attacker stock their weapons/transport troops at most, but here they're being ACTIVE.

From what I can tell from the opening for ep. 1 and 2, they seem to have a base in Philipines (which is marked neutral I think) and made a stop at China before going for Japan. So it's not necessarily Asian armies actively fighting. It is possible though that Britannia offered some kind of deal with the 2 countries... maybe more Sakuradite (that raw material that seems to be the reason for their attack) for them if they aided Britannia? Japan seemed to be in a very bad position from the start. It probably wasn't part of the China Federation, nor was it part of Britannia and it produces 80% of this mineral that everyone wants.

Re WWII: You know, from everything Britannia did, I think it's very obvious that there's nothing like the U.N. keeping the larger powers in check. Or Britannia just doesn't give a crap about it. In any case, WWII probably differed a lot from ours (if it did happen). Nazi Germany might've been wiped out too early on by Britannia for it to rise up properly. Also, changing the history of WWI would change the history of WWII, so there could've been no Nazi Germany.

I'd sure like to talk to Suzaku about this.

Hehe, Me too!

And er, since it's assumed Japan didn't get nuked, did we ever have nukes and/or did the Cold War happen here?

Err... I meant our world... though I really don't know what modern Japanese actually think of him. Hopefully nobody got nuked in the AU one. I have no idea about Cold War, it could've happened, just not between US and the Soviet Union. I wish we know how far down the future we are in the series compared to our world. At least then we'll have a general idea of how fast their technology had developed.

True. I misremembered that map, my mistake. It's either Sakuradite or economic aid/treaty, or maybe the whole "Philippines always had this relationship with America and has their base" holds true in that world too. Though that would require the existence of the Cold War, so I guess your idea is the right one. But didn't the sub mention something about a deeply rooted diplomatic conflict, too? What could they have fucked up, I wonder. It'd be really ironic if it turns out to be their racist supremacy things, though I doubt the anime would ever touch that subject. But it'd make the whole thing turn on its head and be awesome.

If there is a higher organization, it's probably more like the G7 than the UN. Otherwise...you'd think the Europeans would put up some sort of boycotting if they actually advocate human rights. Could be a message about power and money buying everything, but since when did that stop activists? And yeah, I figured that, too. If Britain has the US and all its resources from the start, Nazi Germany wouldn't have been able to sweep through Europe. Or it might not happen at all. Europe could've unified because they lost to Britain, in which case...the world has been in a state of semi-Cold War ever since the colonial days. Probably isn't nice.

I was talking about our world, too. XD;; Einstein seems to like Japan well enough, I went to this hotel where he left a signature, and my physics prof (who's a fan of his) talked about the irony of him liking Japan so much. I have no idea what they think of him, however. Perhaps the Cold War happened between Britannia and someone else, and the discovery/obtainment of Sakuradite was the final push that let Britannia go around getting new Areas at wil?

But didn't the sub mention something about a deeply rooted diplomatic conflict, too?

Oh yesssss.... that's right, forgot about that. ^^;; There are many things they could've done wrong, such an open-ended question. It would be such a twist if it was a racist thing. XD

Europe could've unified because they lost to Britain, in which case...the world has been in a state of semi-Cold War ever since the colonial days.

I like that idea actually. It fits somehow. Their world isn't all that nice a place.

Re Eintein: I see, I see. XD It is rather ironic. >_<

As for the Britannia getting new Areas thing, I don't know if Sakuradite is really the push for them to esablish the Area system. If they wanted it, why didn't they just go for it, and not wait until the 11th Area. And this just occured to me, if Area 18 was recently claimed, then they gained 7 territories within the 9 years from Japan's surrender. That's almost an Area/country a year. It sounds more like they are on a conquest to rule the world or something. Claim all the neutral countries first before hitting on the biggies.

They also must have lots of armies fighting around the world or many leaders like Cornelia, which they probably do, I mean the emperor probably has plenty of sons and daughters to spare to conquer those places. And I would not be surprised if they are cold-hearted bastards too. Especially the older ones.

Could be a good reason for the extreme competition in the English royal family, too. The semicoldwar I mean.

It sounds more like they are on a conquest to rule the world or something. Claim all the neutral countries first before hitting on the biggies.

You know, you have to wonder how much power the EEU has on the international scale if that is the case. The world practically went livid at the US attacking the Middle East on accounts that they're getting oil, and in the Geass world there's so much more at stake. Their democratic bent aside, isn't it risky that there's this global empire gobbling terroritories left and right, possibly threatening them? Or are they so secure that they don't care? Or is the EEU already doing their own thing, and we're just not informed about them?

The Emperor probably raised them to be cold-hearted bastards. And anyone of appraisable talent was probably trained on tactical thinking. Lulu's chess genius could actually have been a common occurrence, so that he didn't have much intrinsic value at all.

Yes, curious indeed. And the EEU would be the closest thing to Britannia that it can gobble up. Unless they have reached some kind of truce with Britannia. And like you said, EEU can be doing their own gobbling up. We know for sure that Britannia owns 1/3 of the world, but do we know that EEU and China Federation own the rest of the 2/3? From the emperor's speech, those two seem to be the biggest competitors against Britannia, but are we perhaps, overestimating their power? Are they hopeless to protest against Britannia?

Lulu's chess genius could actually have been a common occurrence, so that he didn't have much intrinsic value at all.

Maybe. I mean if Clovis was his only chess partner, then even if the emperor knew about his wins, they were not all that impressive. XD

By the way, can I mention how much fun I have had replying to your posts? ^^;

They could be helpless, if the Chinese Federation is not open to negotiations the way they were in communist days. Or maybe they just don't have Knightmare Frames, though how possible that is considering Japan could develope its own mid-war is problematic. Dang, we just don't have enough information. I hope Sunrise cover those more in detail, too---something like overthrowing an Empire is too big to be confined to Japan. ~~Not to mention that I'd like to see Lulu go off Area 11, however unlikely that may be~~

I have great fun replying to you, too. :D This is a great discussion. I don't get many. :D

I can't see any of them not having Knightmare Frames either. It's been 7 years since they were first employed. (I got the wrong number for my last last post, they conquered an Area a year. >_<)

Yes, please Sunrise give us more info!

Not to mention that I'd like to see Lulu go off Area 11, however unlikely that may be

Oh me too! I think he will have to do it eventually. He's not going to be able to face off his old man if he stays in Japan. (I want this big confrontational meeting in the throne room at Aulius.)

I've gone and found your regular LJ btw, (can't believe how long it took me to do this). Do you mind if I friend you?

They could either get the Emperor to come to Japan (I have no idea how, but it's been done before) or have Lelouch nuke Britannia without leaving the country. But damn, both are so unsatisfying. Taking the chaos to the global scale = win, though I'm not sure if that's what they'll do.

Do you mind if I friend you?

I was wondering if you'd ask me first or I'd ask you first. XD I am friending back at the moment. :D

I find the idea of the Emperor coming to Japan highly unlikely since he has so many representatives he can send. Also he must have plenty of people who wants to assassinate him.

Taking the chaos to the global scale = win, though I'm not sure if that's what they'll do.

Dunno if Lelouch really wants to take the matter to that level. He is ultimately trying to solve a personal conflict. I wonder what Lelouch was planning to do before he got his Geass power. He could very well have gone Suzaku's route and break Britannia down from within as a high ranking official or something.

Ok, friended! :D Mind you though my LJ is rather boring. >_> I don't post all that often and most of the time it's RL-related.

They could do that if Lulu can create a condition that'd force the Emperor's hand, though I can't see how that would be possible yet considering the Emperor probably knows about him already. I'm just going to assume that the writer is smarter than I am.

He is trying to solve a personal conflict, but at the same time, he wants to change the world. I'm not sure if he realizes those two goals aren't all that compatible, but if he's seriously just trying to kill the entire royal family, there are easier ways than rebellion. He could play Clovis!Assassin repeatedly---though it could be his princely sensibilities talking that makes him do it the fashionable style. (Don't think he can do Suzaku Route, though. He'd be too easily recognizable...his alias' a little stupid as it is) Compare his 'powerlessnes' lines in Episode 7 and Episode 1, and I'm actually wondering if he had ANY plans at all, and if his 'schedule' speech to CC was just a bluff.

I don't mind. :D I probably won't be commenting on you much because of that, though. I suck at RL commentary.

though I can't see how that would be possible yet considering the Emperor probably knows about him already

I've been wondering about the Emperor. He seems to have some kind of superpower. He knows about this "legend of Ragnorak" that we had no explanation of but possibly has to do with Code Geass. But we have no idea what he can actually do. >_<

I'm not sure if he realizes those two goals aren't all that compatible

Probably not. He did say those 2 things are the same to him.

Re Lulu's schedule: Yeah, maybe he had no plan, but he did intend to do something about it so he must have thought about possible ways of achieving his goal. Though you're right, he is a bit too recognizable. He can always try to disguise his name.

Don't worry about the comments, my LJ is pretty quiet anyway. ^^;

Did you notice how the three-pronged Geasslike symbol shown (more clearly) in the semi-second OP looks like a simplified version of the Britannian fleur-de-lis thing? And there's how he was talking about Clovis.

Well, I was thinking about it more due to his "Strange dreams will only land you in trouble" comment to Rivalz in episode 1. There was pretty much no reason for him to lie then, he could have another fib that's more realistic ("Yeah, that's why the stuff they teach in school's not that important", "No, why would I want to do something so boring?") so at least it has to be somewhat indicative of his degree of powerlessness. It sounds fatalistic and somewhat resigned...and he seemed to think that his days of freedom are numbered to the point Ashfords decide to stop hiding him. It makes me wonder if Lelouch actually had confidence in his plans at all, if he did have anything practical in his head by then.

Havn't seen the semi-new OP yet, since my Japanese is minimal I only download subs. That Clovis thing was weird. Did he mean he was talking to Clovis at that moment when he is already dead? Or he talked to Clovis before his death.

It sounds fatalistic and somewhat resigned...and he seemed to think that his days of freedom are numbered to the point Ashfords decide to stop hiding him.

Hmm... true. *sigh* Poor Lulu. Speaking of Ashfords, Milly's mother seems adament to build up their family status again. It probably won't do them any good if it is revealed that they have been hiding Lelouch and Nunnally for so long.

Btw, I notice you double-posted, do you want me to delete the first one?

Damn, LJ sucks. Yes, please. D:

Judging from the Japanese script, he was talking to the post mortem Clovis. If so, it's highly likely that he knows what Lelouch is doing and possibly about the Geass.

I'm still wondering why they're hiding them, specifically. Sure they may have some sort of relation, but providing them with first class education and everything...this is probably the romanticist in me, but I keep expecting Old Man Ashford to have something not entirely altruistic in mind when he took them in. Of course, Lelouch doesn't talk like he's a pawn moving from board to board, but it'd explain a bit of his 'dead life'-ness, if he still lives eating from someone else's hand and waiting to see which way he'd be used.

Comment deleted. :D

Hmm... post-mortum Clovis... Maybe the Emperor can speak to ghosts? XD Do inherent supernatural abilities exist in their world I wonder. Ah yes, this way he would know his son is still alive and wreaking the kind of havoc he approves.

Re Ashford: Hmm, I wonder if he really would be able to use Lelouch though. He has obviously fallen from grace, and if he really wants the Ashford family to rise up again Lelouch is not going to be much help. I do agree with you that Lulu is probably feeling helpless and used.

Also, why is the Ashford family in Japan in the first place? Is it really coincidence that Lelouch and Nunnally is sent to a country where their supporting family has already taken root? Did the Ashfords follow Lelouch to exile?

Re Ashford : That's the one argument that shoots down the theory, yes. If anything, he'd gain more by giving both of them back to Britannia the first chance he gets. Unless there's something we're not seeing, in which case it's as good as altruism as a guess.

Re That Last Question : I'm still not even sure why Lelouch was sent to Japan in the first place. Even if he's fallen from grace, he's still got his uses. So unlike the Emperor not to make every card in hand count...he did say that Lelouch makes a good bargaining chip. Bargaining for what? And why did they attack Japan right then? It doesn't make much sense to do something so elaborate just to get rid of him and/or Marianne's line, and I doubt Marianne's killers had the authority to launch THAT offensive. You'd think Lelouch would have more faith in humanity, though,if the Ashfords were loyal enough to follow him into exile and give away their chances of rising in Europe. Maybe it's like the English companies in India? But they're supposedly there before shit happens...

Actually the Emperor sending the two of them to Japan reminds me of Ancient China where one country sends a prince to another country to be held as, really, a hostage. This prevents the country from attacking because they can kill that prince anytime they want. So maybe this is what the Emperor was trying to do, send a messege to Japan that he has no intention of attacking (for now anyway). When in actuality, he didn't really care if Lelouch and Nunnully died or not.

As for what they are "bargaining" for, I really don't know. The Emperor did send the kids away a year before he attacked Japan.

You don't suppose the Ashfords were sent to spy on Japan or as some kind of ambassador?

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Though heh, this just occurred to me. If the Japanese exhibited prior signs of siding with WWII Axis (if there is indeed a WWII) it'd be a perfect reason for Nina's fear of Elevens. She's Jewish, if her last name is any judge.

You're right, I always thought she's named Einstein only because of her interest in science. But really, sullying a good name... I can't stand Nina and her bigotry. Though I guess the Japanese don't have much love for Albert Einstein anyway.

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