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code_geass2008-08-18 06:46 pm
nayami.livejournal.com) wrote in code_geass2008-08-18 06:46 pm
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Turn 19 Discussion: Sacrifice Move
I'm back from Otakon hiatus. Aren't explosions fun, children? And then there was the aftermath. Few notes as usual. Please do not spoil me with post-19 things (interviews, magazine summaries, speculations, ect.). It makes me sad and it also makes me delete your comment. That said, speculate all you like. Even use the spoilers in your speculations. Just do not tell me they are spoilers. We good? We good. Also can't say for sure whether you'll see any more of these from me. Sob.
But before we began, I have a special treat for my happy readers.
[Poll #1244206]
ETA: Poll results say y'all are chickens. But I'm right there with you. :(
And now back to your scheduled ramblings.
Since I haven't in a while I will start with Lelouch. Mainly because everyone else has taken on Rolo but I have some surprises in store for him. Lelouch for me was a tough sell in this episode because I did think things were rushed. Let's focus on the positives first. Because right now, Geass could really use some positives. The Lelouch freaking out at Rolo scene was definitely my favorite here, gorgeously animated, brutally honest Lelouch -- a real rarity -- and a display of how Lelouch just doesn't want to care about anything anymore or think for that matter. I loved watching the gradual changes in his line of vision from barely glancing at Rolo's keychain to snapping when he hears Rolo tell Jeremiah that Rolo is all Lelouch needs. That Lelouch would reveal his entire plan to Rolo is just amazing, given how deceitful and sneaky Lelouch has been to this point. Rolo could have killed him right there, and he doesn't even care. All he has is his rage. Also I just love the bluntness of "I tried to kill you several times! I just haven't succeeded yet!" Admitting failures too, are we, Lelouch? The whole thing is a mesmerizing descent into Lelouch's shattered psyche.
But there is one more piece to this scene. And one that both plagues and intrigues me. Why doesn't Lelouch try to kill Rolo there? You could say maybe he doesn't have a gun. But hell, Lelouch always has guns. I don't even know where he keeps them anymore. You could say he fears Rolo's Geass. No he doesn't. He just told Rolo he hated him; he's not thinking at all. He just gave away everything. There is no methodology here. You could say he's too damn pissed to think about killing Rolo and just wants him out of his face. I guess that's more likely than the other options. But then there's the question of following the insanity of Turn 14 why Lelouch never again tries to kill Rolo. He still needs him? He was fully ready to trump his superweapon "brother" in 14 so why does necessity matter now? He even sends him after Nunnally. I don't know what Sunrise is getting at here. The whole thing has always felt... off. Almost like after he chilled from his post-14 RAAAAGE, Lelouch subconsciously did not want to kill Rolo. And this isn't fangirl speaking, this is plain and simple WTF.
The WTF follows us to Rolo's rescue of Lelouch. Lelouch, who had been ready to die a moment ago, takes his chance at life again when it's offered to him, all the while arguing about why he doesn't deserve it. Lelouch's usual contradictions acting up? But this argument is weak and more protesting than true anger. Does he want Rolo to let him die? Or does he just want Rolo uninvolved? After his display the last time Rolo was involved ("DON'T EVER APPEAR BEFORE ME AGAIN! GET OUT!!!!"), it seems strange that Lelouch isn't so much irritated that Rolo is around him than that he is interfering. "You don't have to do this. I have nothing left to live for." I'm not sure how I feel about it really. Some have attributed Lelouch's shock, considering everything that was happening to him in that scene. I think it is my discomfort with this reaction that makes Lelouch's guilt about Rolo slowly killing himself seem like it comes too quick. Lelouch is a messed-up boy, and love takes him a while to fully comprehend. And when it does, it all but nails him in the face. So I can accept that Lelouch was affected by the fact that this boy, who he wanted to kill who he hated so much, was going to die for him. I still have major issues with no thoughts given to Shirley during this scene. And I don't want to hear time constraints. Bad form, Geass.
Final scene between the "brothers." It did break my heart that Rolo told Lelouch he thought Lelouch was lying when he said he hated him. And of course Lelouch lies right back. At the risk of getting slapped, I have to say Stage 23 parallel anyone? No, I'm serious about that. Lelouch lies and smiles at him, which is almost more disturbing since it's not much different from the fake smiles Lelouch has given him throughout the season. How fake were they? These are the smiles Rolo learned to love and trust, the smiles that told him that their moments were real. "Your big brother is a liar" comes with a double meaning, I believe. And again, don't hit me. I think in part, this is Lelouch speaking to Nunnally as well. He never got to apologize for his lies to her. It just seems to be so much more when Lelouch grows sad and glances down at the locket again. Who knows? Maybe I'm sill mopey about that correlation chart.
But of course, Lelouch introspection would hardly be complete without the GREAT BETRAYAL. Or hell, I just want to focus on him and Kallen. I loved Kallen's face when she walked in on him and C.C. and thought lewdness was afoot. Kallen has the cutest blushes. I loved even more when she realized that C.C. was gone and Lelouch was truly alone. More so that she missed C.C. herself. The realization that Lelouch had nobody left to trust is what almost led to her opening up to him, I think. Kallen wanted to give him at least one more person to believe in. She wanted to give him good memories too with the mention of Nunnally and that Nunnally helped her. I do love how Lelouch tells her he's sorry he didn't rescue her, especially since his tone is so weary and dead. He's just trying to repay her for what she's offering him. And then their big scene. Forget romantic. It's just powerful. Lelouch protecting again, as only he can do by turning everyone against him. Oh that dark forced laugh, the denouncement of everything, the slick smile to Kallen. Magical all of it. Lelouch acting at his best. Lying because he needs to protect. And for once, maybe because he has nothing maybe because he thinks he's going to die maybe because it all doesn't matter anymore, Lelouch lets someone in on his game. He shows her the truth. The reference to Guilford's final words is also unique in this moment, but I sadly have no hypotheses as to what it means. Maybe Lelouch saw something in Guilford's devotion to his princess. Maybe it was something he wanted to share. I do hope Kallen returns to him. As much as I love Lelouch on his own (AKA WITHOUT THE DAMN KNIGHTS), I can make a few exceptions.
Now that he's lost everything, what is Lelouch's path? Taking his father with him to hell? Does Lelouch care about living anymore? Is it just a drive now? Dark stuff, Sunrise. Let's see if you make it worth it...
Some people thought I was going to do a deep insightful piece on Rolo here, but I don't think Rolo needs much explanation. He saved the brother he loved. Because Lelouch is his mission, his purpose in life. His raison d'entre. Ironic no? And with the unconditional love of a brother, a brother who couldn't help but still believe that it was all a lie and that Lelouch did love him back, Rolo forgave. But this is not without its own flaws. The major one being Nunnally and that her situation with Rolo is never resolved. Rolo never tells Lelouch he was going to kill Nunnally. I guess I couldn't expect him too but in the end, understanding is tainted in lies. The way of Geass. It doesn't mean I have to like it. It doesn't mean I have to believe it was deliberate either... I did like Rolo's announcement that after being a tool his whole life, sacrificing himself for Lelouch was his will. But I wonder how much Rolo truly believed that Lelouch had been lying about the way he felt for him and how much he convinced himself of that because it was easier that way. When you get right down to it, yes Rolo was a bastard for killing Shirley. But Lelouch hurt him almost as much and also out of love for another. Maybe it's true: Rolo is not Lelouch vi Britannia's brother but Lelouch Lamperouge's. He is the brother of a liar and a murderer, a sinner whose life has been shaped by his circumstances. No longer the same Lelouch that lost sleep over which sister he loved more and who rejoiced at the idea of simply having a friend. But how lost is that Lelouch is the ultimate question?
Suzaku. The one who should have received more screentime considering what he just did. So why the flashes? If they're not going to give him any significant moment, why return to him time and time again? It was important to Sunrise to show the passage of time, to show that Suzaku reflected on that crater, on the deaths, on Nunnally until dusk. I can't help but think there must be some symbolism in that. Especially since the OP now has its final scene turned from day into night. It also becomes painfully clear that of all the deaths he is responsible for, Nunnally hurts him the most. Thanks for bringing that up, Jeremiah. Speaking of him, I wonder whether he'll search for Lelouch. His loyalty is not to the Order but to his prince. Will he hate Lelouch too for the charges Schneizel brings against him? I very much doubt it; he has no attachment to any of the others. And where exactly is Suzaku right now? The preview shows him seeming fairly sane but what is his goal now? I doubt it's killing Lelouch/Zero. Back to the death wish? Well, that's one thing him and Lelouch have in common now. Yay. What I want to know most is whether anyone can help Suzaku? Even if he has those who still care about him (Cecile, Lloyd... Gino?), whether they can actually reach him is up in the air.
I will also quickly touch upon Nina, who could go either way. Making her unaware of FREIA's potential is... iffy but I kind of saw it coming. I do love Lloyd in this scene. Who would have thought "I've been broken since the beginning" would be his line? And Schneizel better not turn into a red herring since the storyline is veering away from him, now that Lelouch is done with his Knights. Also, Schneizel, I don't think your relationship with Lelouch is healthy... I did enjoy finally seeing Cornelia take charge again. It was awesome when she countered Ougi. Ougi. God, what happened to you, man? The only one who could understand Zero. And you gave it all up for a woman. Ougi is the only Knight I'm actually sad about losing, aside from Kallen. I don't think Ougi was done right at all. I understand his frustration with Zero for the Geass and Japan but... I don't know. I just didn't like it. Tamaki was hilarity as always. Ok, I will miss his big dumb self tagging along like a yippy dog. Everyone else THANK GOD. Too many characters. I loved Laksharta and Deithard but yeesh. GOOD RIDDANCE BLACK KNIGHTS! Yes, I'm aware they will probably still show up. Let me have my delusions. They are all I have left. Uh... also Gino. Sadness. Woe. Sadness.
I have absolutely no idea what Geass plans to do anymore. This could be a good thing or a bad thing. :\ Right now, I just hope for sanity.
But before we began, I have a special treat for my happy readers.
[Poll #1244206]
ETA: Poll results say y'all are chickens. But I'm right there with you. :(
And now back to your scheduled ramblings.
Since I haven't in a while I will start with Lelouch. Mainly because everyone else has taken on Rolo but I have some surprises in store for him. Lelouch for me was a tough sell in this episode because I did think things were rushed. Let's focus on the positives first. Because right now, Geass could really use some positives. The Lelouch freaking out at Rolo scene was definitely my favorite here, gorgeously animated, brutally honest Lelouch -- a real rarity -- and a display of how Lelouch just doesn't want to care about anything anymore or think for that matter. I loved watching the gradual changes in his line of vision from barely glancing at Rolo's keychain to snapping when he hears Rolo tell Jeremiah that Rolo is all Lelouch needs. That Lelouch would reveal his entire plan to Rolo is just amazing, given how deceitful and sneaky Lelouch has been to this point. Rolo could have killed him right there, and he doesn't even care. All he has is his rage. Also I just love the bluntness of "I tried to kill you several times! I just haven't succeeded yet!" Admitting failures too, are we, Lelouch? The whole thing is a mesmerizing descent into Lelouch's shattered psyche.
But there is one more piece to this scene. And one that both plagues and intrigues me. Why doesn't Lelouch try to kill Rolo there? You could say maybe he doesn't have a gun. But hell, Lelouch always has guns. I don't even know where he keeps them anymore. You could say he fears Rolo's Geass. No he doesn't. He just told Rolo he hated him; he's not thinking at all. He just gave away everything. There is no methodology here. You could say he's too damn pissed to think about killing Rolo and just wants him out of his face. I guess that's more likely than the other options. But then there's the question of following the insanity of Turn 14 why Lelouch never again tries to kill Rolo. He still needs him? He was fully ready to trump his superweapon "brother" in 14 so why does necessity matter now? He even sends him after Nunnally. I don't know what Sunrise is getting at here. The whole thing has always felt... off. Almost like after he chilled from his post-14 RAAAAGE, Lelouch subconsciously did not want to kill Rolo. And this isn't fangirl speaking, this is plain and simple WTF.
The WTF follows us to Rolo's rescue of Lelouch. Lelouch, who had been ready to die a moment ago, takes his chance at life again when it's offered to him, all the while arguing about why he doesn't deserve it. Lelouch's usual contradictions acting up? But this argument is weak and more protesting than true anger. Does he want Rolo to let him die? Or does he just want Rolo uninvolved? After his display the last time Rolo was involved ("DON'T EVER APPEAR BEFORE ME AGAIN! GET OUT!!!!"), it seems strange that Lelouch isn't so much irritated that Rolo is around him than that he is interfering. "You don't have to do this. I have nothing left to live for." I'm not sure how I feel about it really. Some have attributed Lelouch's shock, considering everything that was happening to him in that scene. I think it is my discomfort with this reaction that makes Lelouch's guilt about Rolo slowly killing himself seem like it comes too quick. Lelouch is a messed-up boy, and love takes him a while to fully comprehend. And when it does, it all but nails him in the face. So I can accept that Lelouch was affected by the fact that this boy, who he wanted to kill who he hated so much, was going to die for him. I still have major issues with no thoughts given to Shirley during this scene. And I don't want to hear time constraints. Bad form, Geass.
Final scene between the "brothers." It did break my heart that Rolo told Lelouch he thought Lelouch was lying when he said he hated him. And of course Lelouch lies right back. At the risk of getting slapped, I have to say Stage 23 parallel anyone? No, I'm serious about that. Lelouch lies and smiles at him, which is almost more disturbing since it's not much different from the fake smiles Lelouch has given him throughout the season. How fake were they? These are the smiles Rolo learned to love and trust, the smiles that told him that their moments were real. "Your big brother is a liar" comes with a double meaning, I believe. And again, don't hit me. I think in part, this is Lelouch speaking to Nunnally as well. He never got to apologize for his lies to her. It just seems to be so much more when Lelouch grows sad and glances down at the locket again. Who knows? Maybe I'm sill mopey about that correlation chart.
But of course, Lelouch introspection would hardly be complete without the GREAT BETRAYAL. Or hell, I just want to focus on him and Kallen. I loved Kallen's face when she walked in on him and C.C. and thought lewdness was afoot. Kallen has the cutest blushes. I loved even more when she realized that C.C. was gone and Lelouch was truly alone. More so that she missed C.C. herself. The realization that Lelouch had nobody left to trust is what almost led to her opening up to him, I think. Kallen wanted to give him at least one more person to believe in. She wanted to give him good memories too with the mention of Nunnally and that Nunnally helped her. I do love how Lelouch tells her he's sorry he didn't rescue her, especially since his tone is so weary and dead. He's just trying to repay her for what she's offering him. And then their big scene. Forget romantic. It's just powerful. Lelouch protecting again, as only he can do by turning everyone against him. Oh that dark forced laugh, the denouncement of everything, the slick smile to Kallen. Magical all of it. Lelouch acting at his best. Lying because he needs to protect. And for once, maybe because he has nothing maybe because he thinks he's going to die maybe because it all doesn't matter anymore, Lelouch lets someone in on his game. He shows her the truth. The reference to Guilford's final words is also unique in this moment, but I sadly have no hypotheses as to what it means. Maybe Lelouch saw something in Guilford's devotion to his princess. Maybe it was something he wanted to share. I do hope Kallen returns to him. As much as I love Lelouch on his own (AKA WITHOUT THE DAMN KNIGHTS), I can make a few exceptions.
Now that he's lost everything, what is Lelouch's path? Taking his father with him to hell? Does Lelouch care about living anymore? Is it just a drive now? Dark stuff, Sunrise. Let's see if you make it worth it...
Some people thought I was going to do a deep insightful piece on Rolo here, but I don't think Rolo needs much explanation. He saved the brother he loved. Because Lelouch is his mission, his purpose in life. His raison d'entre. Ironic no? And with the unconditional love of a brother, a brother who couldn't help but still believe that it was all a lie and that Lelouch did love him back, Rolo forgave. But this is not without its own flaws. The major one being Nunnally and that her situation with Rolo is never resolved. Rolo never tells Lelouch he was going to kill Nunnally. I guess I couldn't expect him too but in the end, understanding is tainted in lies. The way of Geass. It doesn't mean I have to like it. It doesn't mean I have to believe it was deliberate either... I did like Rolo's announcement that after being a tool his whole life, sacrificing himself for Lelouch was his will. But I wonder how much Rolo truly believed that Lelouch had been lying about the way he felt for him and how much he convinced himself of that because it was easier that way. When you get right down to it, yes Rolo was a bastard for killing Shirley. But Lelouch hurt him almost as much and also out of love for another. Maybe it's true: Rolo is not Lelouch vi Britannia's brother but Lelouch Lamperouge's. He is the brother of a liar and a murderer, a sinner whose life has been shaped by his circumstances. No longer the same Lelouch that lost sleep over which sister he loved more and who rejoiced at the idea of simply having a friend. But how lost is that Lelouch is the ultimate question?
Suzaku. The one who should have received more screentime considering what he just did. So why the flashes? If they're not going to give him any significant moment, why return to him time and time again? It was important to Sunrise to show the passage of time, to show that Suzaku reflected on that crater, on the deaths, on Nunnally until dusk. I can't help but think there must be some symbolism in that. Especially since the OP now has its final scene turned from day into night. It also becomes painfully clear that of all the deaths he is responsible for, Nunnally hurts him the most. Thanks for bringing that up, Jeremiah. Speaking of him, I wonder whether he'll search for Lelouch. His loyalty is not to the Order but to his prince. Will he hate Lelouch too for the charges Schneizel brings against him? I very much doubt it; he has no attachment to any of the others. And where exactly is Suzaku right now? The preview shows him seeming fairly sane but what is his goal now? I doubt it's killing Lelouch/Zero. Back to the death wish? Well, that's one thing him and Lelouch have in common now. Yay. What I want to know most is whether anyone can help Suzaku? Even if he has those who still care about him (Cecile, Lloyd... Gino?), whether they can actually reach him is up in the air.
I will also quickly touch upon Nina, who could go either way. Making her unaware of FREIA's potential is... iffy but I kind of saw it coming. I do love Lloyd in this scene. Who would have thought "I've been broken since the beginning" would be his line? And Schneizel better not turn into a red herring since the storyline is veering away from him, now that Lelouch is done with his Knights. Also, Schneizel, I don't think your relationship with Lelouch is healthy... I did enjoy finally seeing Cornelia take charge again. It was awesome when she countered Ougi. Ougi. God, what happened to you, man? The only one who could understand Zero. And you gave it all up for a woman. Ougi is the only Knight I'm actually sad about losing, aside from Kallen. I don't think Ougi was done right at all. I understand his frustration with Zero for the Geass and Japan but... I don't know. I just didn't like it. Tamaki was hilarity as always. Ok, I will miss his big dumb self tagging along like a yippy dog. Everyone else THANK GOD. Too many characters. I loved Laksharta and Deithard but yeesh. GOOD RIDDANCE BLACK KNIGHTS! Yes, I'm aware they will probably still show up. Let me have my delusions. They are all I have left. Uh... also Gino. Sadness. Woe. Sadness.
I have absolutely no idea what Geass plans to do anymore. This could be a good thing or a bad thing. :\ Right now, I just hope for sanity.
no subject
I’ve never told you how happy I am about Lelouch’s development, mostly because I was terrified of how they would portray the impact of Nunnally’s death on his characterization after Turn 18. This is a tricky, tricky business, since Nunnally is his most important person and the moral axis of Lelouch’s life. I want some more grieving, really, like we had when Lelouch found out Nunnally had a life of her own. We will see if we get it or not. So far so good. Contrary to you, I bought his deal with Rolo completely. But you already know that.
I love the double meaning you gave to "Your big brother is a liar" and his relationship with the locked. Nice interpretation! You saved my day.
I don’t think they have downgraded Suzaku completely, because as you pointed out, the story is still focused on him even if he has less screen time. When push comes to shove, Geass is still centered on Lelouch’s vendetta and his relationship with Suzaku. I’d like to remember that Suzaku is the only person to whom Charles showed the Sword of Akasha. Suzaku and nobody else. “Not even Schneizel knows of this place.”
Contrary to Lelouch – who seems to be -understandably - all over the place – R2 Suzaku has very well established themes: loyalty, identity and guilt. “Did I… do that?” Mind you, he uses boku then. I think that part of that is because he is a scared, scared Eleven, but another part has to do with the fact that it was Suzaku’s honorable Britannian persona who used Freya on the Tokyo settlement. The mysterious final scene, with Suzaku’s laughing at his own reflection, suggests yet another identity crisis. Again, we get Suzaku’s tripod: loyalty, identity and guilt, which is why I’m not so worried about his development post Turn 19.
Jeremiah is self-centered as usual<3, but it was nice that he had that talk with Suzaku. But seriously, Orange-kun, just let the poor boy mope alone. But I love that dialog, and Kallen's reaction to Lelouch still trying to search her sister. They both have acquired a brand new meaning to me.
I wonder how Suzaku much realizes that Schneizel used shamelessly him to get to his brother. He made sure to record their conversation. He knew Suzaku would both accept to carry Freya warn Lelouch in advance. Schneizel, like Lelouch, understands people and use that against them, which made me squee when I went back to Turn 3:
Schneizel: “His promotion is something to be happy about./ His conscience and sense of responsibility will guide him.”
SERIOUSLY, you’ve got to love Geass’ text. ;__;
I must write an essay on Nina. I just want to let you know. And – like you- I loved her conversation with Lloyd. Llody, sometimes, can be awesome too.
I don’t think I will ever get tired of CG’s endless games of truth and lies. The first time Suzaku meets Lelouch, he is telling a lie to protect Nunnally. Now Schneizel is using the truth to kill his brother. Geass thrives on ambiguities and reversal of values, which is something I adore in fiction. I’m particularly excited about the next episode’s title. Where is Sunday when I need it?
no subject
Well, that interpretation helps me balance my issues with the Rolo scene in part. Lelouch was saying goodbye to both his siblings.
I forgot abut the Charles showing that to Suzaku. Thank you for pointing that out. And I do want to believe the storyline is still Lelouch and Suzaku, as it should be when you get right down to it. But we'll see. I had considered the implications of Suzaku gazing down at his reflection, but the laughter throws me off. Unless Suzaku is truly sick of himself and what he's been playing at, which would actually be very interesting. If Suzaku just wanted to be Japanese again, through and through. Geass is too mean to give me that though.
Drat, you reminded me I forgot to give my love t Lelouch's spazzing out on everyone for not searching for Nunnally, and Kallen's inability to say or do anything, even though she knew how much Lelouch was suffering. Good scene. Lelouch be crazy. I want to know the new meaning you have for it though.
Well, Suzaku did have a lot of time to just think. So maybe he considered Schneizel amid his thought process. But seriously, nobody in this show ever cares about Schneizel. It's so surreal that way. He's probably the biggest threat, and nobody cares. Lelouch doesn't even care. But good catch connection Schneizel's treachery to Turn 3. What a bastard.