Turn 19 Discussion: Sacrifice Move

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I'm back from Otakon hiatus. Aren't explosions fun, children? And then there was the aftermath. Few notes as usual. Please do not spoil me with post-19 things (interviews, magazine summaries, speculations, ect.). It makes me sad and it also makes me delete your comment. That said, speculate all you like. Even use the spoilers in your speculations. Just do not tell me they are spoilers. We good? We good. Also can't say for sure whether you'll see any more of these from me. Sob.

But before we began, I have a special treat for my happy readers.

[Poll #1244206]


ETA: Poll results say y'all are chickens. But I'm right there with you. :(

And now back to your scheduled ramblings.



Since I haven't in a while I will start with Lelouch. Mainly because everyone else has taken on Rolo but I have some surprises in store for him. Lelouch for me was a tough sell in this episode because I did think things were rushed. Let's focus on the positives first. Because right now, Geass could really use some positives. The Lelouch freaking out at Rolo scene was definitely my favorite here, gorgeously animated, brutally honest Lelouch -- a real rarity -- and a display of how Lelouch just doesn't want to care about anything anymore or think for that matter. I loved watching the gradual changes in his line of vision from barely glancing at Rolo's keychain to snapping when he hears Rolo tell Jeremiah that Rolo is all Lelouch needs. That Lelouch would reveal his entire plan to Rolo is just amazing, given how deceitful and sneaky Lelouch has been to this point. Rolo could have killed him right there, and he doesn't even care. All he has is his rage. Also I just love the bluntness of "I tried to kill you several times! I just haven't succeeded yet!" Admitting failures too, are we, Lelouch? The whole thing is a mesmerizing descent into Lelouch's shattered psyche.

But there is one more piece to this scene. And one that both plagues and intrigues me. Why doesn't Lelouch try to kill Rolo there? You could say maybe he doesn't have a gun. But hell, Lelouch always has guns. I don't even know where he keeps them anymore. You could say he fears Rolo's Geass. No he doesn't. He just told Rolo he hated him; he's not thinking at all. He just gave away everything. There is no methodology here. You could say he's too damn pissed to think about killing Rolo and just wants him out of his face. I guess that's more likely than the other options. But then there's the question of following the insanity of Turn 14 why Lelouch never again tries to kill Rolo. He still needs him? He was fully ready to trump his superweapon "brother" in 14 so why does necessity matter now? He even sends him after Nunnally. I don't know what Sunrise is getting at here. The whole thing has always felt... off. Almost like after he chilled from his post-14 RAAAAGE, Lelouch subconsciously did not want to kill Rolo. And this isn't fangirl speaking, this is plain and simple WTF.

The WTF follows us to Rolo's rescue of Lelouch. Lelouch, who had been ready to die a moment ago, takes his chance at life again when it's offered to him, all the while arguing about why he doesn't deserve it. Lelouch's usual contradictions acting up? But this argument is weak and more protesting than true anger. Does he want Rolo to let him die? Or does he just want Rolo uninvolved? After his display the last time Rolo was involved ("DON'T EVER APPEAR BEFORE ME AGAIN! GET OUT!!!!"), it seems strange that Lelouch isn't so much irritated that Rolo is around him than that he is interfering. "You don't have to do this. I have nothing left to live for." I'm not sure how I feel about it really. Some have attributed Lelouch's shock, considering everything that was happening to him in that scene. I think it is my discomfort with this reaction that makes Lelouch's guilt about Rolo slowly killing himself seem like it comes too quick. Lelouch is a messed-up boy, and love takes him a while to fully comprehend. And when it does, it all but nails him in the face. So I can accept that Lelouch was affected by the fact that this boy, who he wanted to kill who he hated so much, was going to die for him. I still have major issues with no thoughts given to Shirley during this scene. And I don't want to hear time constraints. Bad form, Geass.

Final scene between the "brothers." It did break my heart that Rolo told Lelouch he thought Lelouch was lying when he said he hated him. And of course Lelouch lies right back. At the risk of getting slapped, I have to say Stage 23 parallel anyone? No, I'm serious about that. Lelouch lies and smiles at him, which is almost more disturbing since it's not much different from the fake smiles Lelouch has given him throughout the season. How fake were they? These are the smiles Rolo learned to love and trust, the smiles that told him that their moments were real. "Your big brother is a liar" comes with a double meaning, I believe. And again, don't hit me. I think in part, this is Lelouch speaking to Nunnally as well. He never got to apologize for his lies to her. It just seems to be so much more when Lelouch grows sad and glances down at the locket again. Who knows? Maybe I'm sill mopey about that correlation chart.

But of course, Lelouch introspection would hardly be complete without the GREAT BETRAYAL. Or hell, I just want to focus on him and Kallen. I loved Kallen's face when she walked in on him and C.C. and thought lewdness was afoot. Kallen has the cutest blushes. I loved even more when she realized that C.C. was gone and Lelouch was truly alone. More so that she missed C.C. herself. The realization that Lelouch had nobody left to trust is what almost led to her opening up to him, I think. Kallen wanted to give him at least one more person to believe in. She wanted to give him good memories too with the mention of Nunnally and that Nunnally helped her. I do love how Lelouch tells her he's sorry he didn't rescue her, especially since his tone is so weary and dead. He's just trying to repay her for what she's offering him. And then their big scene. Forget romantic. It's just powerful. Lelouch protecting again, as only he can do by turning everyone against him. Oh that dark forced laugh, the denouncement of everything, the slick smile to Kallen. Magical all of it. Lelouch acting at his best. Lying because he needs to protect. And for once, maybe because he has nothing maybe because he thinks he's going to die maybe because it all doesn't matter anymore, Lelouch lets someone in on his game. He shows her the truth. The reference to Guilford's final words is also unique in this moment, but I sadly have no hypotheses as to what it means. Maybe Lelouch saw something in Guilford's devotion to his princess. Maybe it was something he wanted to share. I do hope Kallen returns to him. As much as I love Lelouch on his own (AKA WITHOUT THE DAMN KNIGHTS), I can make a few exceptions.

Now that he's lost everything, what is Lelouch's path? Taking his father with him to hell? Does Lelouch care about living anymore? Is it just a drive now? Dark stuff, Sunrise. Let's see if you make it worth it...

Some people thought I was going to do a deep insightful piece on Rolo here, but I don't think Rolo needs much explanation. He saved the brother he loved. Because Lelouch is his mission, his purpose in life. His raison d'entre. Ironic no? And with the unconditional love of a brother, a brother who couldn't help but still believe that it was all a lie and that Lelouch did love him back, Rolo forgave. But this is not without its own flaws. The major one being Nunnally and that her situation with Rolo is never resolved. Rolo never tells Lelouch he was going to kill Nunnally. I guess I couldn't expect him too but in the end, understanding is tainted in lies. The way of Geass. It doesn't mean I have to like it. It doesn't mean I have to believe it was deliberate either... I did like Rolo's announcement that after being a tool his whole life, sacrificing himself for Lelouch was his will. But I wonder how much Rolo truly believed that Lelouch had been lying about the way he felt for him and how much he convinced himself of that because it was easier that way. When you get right down to it, yes Rolo was a bastard for killing Shirley. But Lelouch hurt him almost as much and also out of love for another. Maybe it's true: Rolo is not Lelouch vi Britannia's brother but Lelouch Lamperouge's. He is the brother of a liar and a murderer, a sinner whose life has been shaped by his circumstances. No longer the same Lelouch that lost sleep over which sister he loved more and who rejoiced at the idea of simply having a friend. But how lost is that Lelouch is the ultimate question?

Suzaku. The one who should have received more screentime considering what he just did. So why the flashes? If they're not going to give him any significant moment, why return to him time and time again? It was important to Sunrise to show the passage of time, to show that Suzaku reflected on that crater, on the deaths, on Nunnally until dusk. I can't help but think there must be some symbolism in that. Especially since the OP now has its final scene turned from day into night. It also becomes painfully clear that of all the deaths he is responsible for, Nunnally hurts him the most. Thanks for bringing that up, Jeremiah. Speaking of him, I wonder whether he'll search for Lelouch. His loyalty is not to the Order but to his prince. Will he hate Lelouch too for the charges Schneizel brings against him? I very much doubt it; he has no attachment to any of the others. And where exactly is Suzaku right now? The preview shows him seeming fairly sane but what is his goal now? I doubt it's killing Lelouch/Zero. Back to the death wish? Well, that's one thing him and Lelouch have in common now. Yay. What I want to know most is whether anyone can help Suzaku? Even if he has those who still care about him (Cecile, Lloyd... Gino?), whether they can actually reach him is up in the air.

I will also quickly touch upon Nina, who could go either way. Making her unaware of FREIA's potential is... iffy but I kind of saw it coming. I do love Lloyd in this scene. Who would have thought "I've been broken since the beginning" would be his line? And Schneizel better not turn into a red herring since the storyline is veering away from him, now that Lelouch is done with his Knights. Also, Schneizel, I don't think your relationship with Lelouch is healthy... I did enjoy finally seeing Cornelia take charge again. It was awesome when she countered Ougi. Ougi. God, what happened to you, man? The only one who could understand Zero. And you gave it all up for a woman. Ougi is the only Knight I'm actually sad about losing, aside from Kallen. I don't think Ougi was done right at all. I understand his frustration with Zero for the Geass and Japan but... I don't know. I just didn't like it. Tamaki was hilarity as always. Ok, I will miss his big dumb self tagging along like a yippy dog. Everyone else THANK GOD. Too many characters. I loved Laksharta and Deithard but yeesh. GOOD RIDDANCE BLACK KNIGHTS! Yes, I'm aware they will probably still show up. Let me have my delusions. They are all I have left. Uh... also Gino. Sadness. Woe. Sadness.

I have absolutely no idea what Geass plans to do anymore. This could be a good thing or a bad thing. :\ Right now, I just hope for sanity.

Comments

[chickee1.livejournal.com]

Beautiful, as always. Many people were shocked in the way that Lelouch 'forgot' about Nunnally so quickly, but I believe Rolo's actions and his death just gave him a new channel for gis grief. I'm sure we haven't seen the last of Nunnally, despite the website saying she's dead, we haven't had a Lelouch and Nunnally moment since early in the season, and we know both Charles and C.c. talked to dead people.

I can believe ZRolo just ignored what Lelouch said to him in his rage, love is a funny thing, you ignore things you want to very easily.

I want Nunnally's brother Lelouch to still be there... but I don't see it happening. Suzaku, I believe, is beyond hope.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I can accept the new channel for his grief idea. If I latch onto that, I can be more forgiving to the creators regarding his character. I don't know. I'm not a big fan of the talking to the dead. It feels like pandering to me.

I don't think he ignored so much as just didn't want to believe it. Like Suzaku didn't want to believe Lelouch was Zero in S1. As you say.

Still not sure who will be left standing.

[clones.livejournal.com]

I was really hoping for more Suzaku in this, and not just because he's my favorite character. I suppose the amount of screen time they gave him was for the best though. We can't just have an entire Emozaku episode - no matter how much I would enjoy it.

I agree with you on the fact that I believe Suzaku is out of reach; I honestly don't think that anyone will be able to reason with him. But we also have to think that Lelouch and Suzaku are in the same boat now. Maybe they'll reach out to each other - finally - and understand that they've both done the wrong things (it's probably really obvious that I want a BFF ending). And maybe they'll at least be able to clean up this mess together; after that, it's all up to them.

[politeserenade.livejournal.com]

Suzaku definitely didn't get enough screen time. I really want to know what he'll do now, but the few times he was shown in this episode left me with nearly nothing. I'd like him to go after Nina and slam her face into the ground, but I doubt he'd do that.

I think Suzaku's going to pin the blame all on himself, and resort to some... obscene kind of atonement (if the crazed laughter is any indication). Maybe he'll go after Emperor Charles? *crosses fingers*



I hope the old C.C. returns soon. She has to play an important role in Geass' climax, no?

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Me too. I was really irked they did their pacing this way. But you could have a point about how he was so upset for most of the episode and it did take place over a day. Maybe they couldn't stay with that. Like I said, they didn't have to keep flashing back to him. That was done for a reason.

I would like the boys to reach out to each other. I can say that much. I don't know how though. It depends where the series wants to go.

Your comment was optimistic. I appreciate that.

*gives cookie*

[suruma.livejournal.com]

I really hope Geass doesn't pull a Wolf's Rain. Maybe Lelouch can be the lonely prince at the end, I don't know.

Maybe Suzaku was mourning for all the people who died, even though it wasn't directly his fault. Or he could have been thinking about the past and what he and Lelouch did, and finally snapped because of all the deaths. Or their broken friendship. Or Nunnally. Who knows. I guess we'll have to wait until the next episode to see how he's doing.

Nice catch on the OP sequence-- I didn't notice the day/night thing at the end. Geass is really getting dark now, isn't it. :/

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I didn't catch the change. Someone else pointed it out in an earlier post. But they also pointed it the stars are still there. It's not totally dark. But it does ruffle me since WR was known for changing its ED as it neared the end, and in WR things did get gradually more sinister.

You bring up a lot of good possibilities for what could have been going through Suzaku's head. Maybe the creators just wanted to leave it up to us this time. I would call them lazy, but again they were deliberate in those scenes.

[realms-of-life.livejournal.com]

Hi, thanks a lot for writing this once more.

I’ve never told you how happy I am about Lelouch’s development, mostly because I was terrified of how they would portray the impact of Nunnally’s death on his characterization after Turn 18. This is a tricky, tricky business, since Nunnally is his most important person and the moral axis of Lelouch’s life. I want some more grieving, really, like we had when Lelouch found out Nunnally had a life of her own. We will see if we get it or not. So far so good. Contrary to you, I bought his deal with Rolo completely. But you already know that.

I love the double meaning you gave to "Your big brother is a liar" and his relationship with the locked. Nice interpretation! You saved my day.

I don’t think they have downgraded Suzaku completely, because as you pointed out, the story is still focused on him even if he has less screen time. When push comes to shove, Geass is still centered on Lelouch’s vendetta and his relationship with Suzaku. I’d like to remember that Suzaku is the only person to whom Charles showed the Sword of Akasha. Suzaku and nobody else. “Not even Schneizel knows of this place.”

Contrary to Lelouch – who seems to be -understandably - all over the place – R2 Suzaku has very well established themes: loyalty, identity and guilt. “Did I… do that?” Mind you, he uses boku then. I think that part of that is because he is a scared, scared Eleven, but another part has to do with the fact that it was Suzaku’s honorable Britannian persona who used Freya on the Tokyo settlement. The mysterious final scene, with Suzaku’s laughing at his own reflection, suggests yet another identity crisis. Again, we get Suzaku’s tripod: loyalty, identity and guilt, which is why I’m not so worried about his development post Turn 19.

Jeremiah is self-centered as usual<3, but it was nice that he had that talk with Suzaku. But seriously, Orange-kun, just let the poor boy mope alone. But I love that dialog, and Kallen's reaction to Lelouch still trying to search her sister. They both have acquired a brand new meaning to me.

I wonder how Suzaku much realizes that Schneizel used shamelessly him to get to his brother. He made sure to record their conversation. He knew Suzaku would both accept to carry Freya warn Lelouch in advance. Schneizel, like Lelouch, understands people and use that against them, which made me squee when I went back to Turn 3:

Schneizel: “His promotion is something to be happy about./ His conscience and sense of responsibility will guide him.”

SERIOUSLY, you’ve got to love Geass’ text. ;__;

I must write an essay on Nina. I just want to let you know. And – like you- I loved her conversation with Lloyd. Llody, sometimes, can be awesome too.

I don’t think I will ever get tired of CG’s endless games of truth and lies. The first time Suzaku meets Lelouch, he is telling a lie to protect Nunnally. Now Schneizel is using the truth to kill his brother. Geass thrives on ambiguities and reversal of values, which is something I adore in fiction. I’m particularly excited about the next episode’s title. Where is Sunday when I need it?

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I want more grief too, but I doubt they'll have time for it. I think Lelouch is done grieving. He's reached his numb stage as the poster below put it.

Well, that interpretation helps me balance my issues with the Rolo scene in part. Lelouch was saying goodbye to both his siblings.

I forgot abut the Charles showing that to Suzaku. Thank you for pointing that out. And I do want to believe the storyline is still Lelouch and Suzaku, as it should be when you get right down to it. But we'll see. I had considered the implications of Suzaku gazing down at his reflection, but the laughter throws me off. Unless Suzaku is truly sick of himself and what he's been playing at, which would actually be very interesting. If Suzaku just wanted to be Japanese again, through and through. Geass is too mean to give me that though.

Drat, you reminded me I forgot to give my love t Lelouch's spazzing out on everyone for not searching for Nunnally, and Kallen's inability to say or do anything, even though she knew how much Lelouch was suffering. Good scene. Lelouch be crazy. I want to know the new meaning you have for it though.

Well, Suzaku did have a lot of time to just think. So maybe he considered Schneizel amid his thought process. But seriously, nobody in this show ever cares about Schneizel. It's so surreal that way. He's probably the biggest threat, and nobody cares. Lelouch doesn't even care. But good catch connection Schneizel's treachery to Turn 3. What a bastard.

[mirax.livejournal.com]

Lelouch protecting again, as only he can do by turning everyone against him. Oh that dark forced laugh, the denouncement of everything, the slick smile to Kallen. Magical all of it. Lelouch acting at his best. Lying because he needs to protect. And for once, maybe because he has nothing maybe because he thinks he's going to die maybe because it all doesn't matter anymore, Lelouch lets someone in on his game. He shows her the truth.

I couldn't have put it better myself. THIS, all these lies to protect, giving everyone what they want to hear, shouldering the burden, is why I love his character so damn much.

As for his reactions with Rolo, I mean, you have to put it in perspective. Death is pathetic and sad, seeing someone's life slipping away is heart-wrenching and pitiful, even if you hate them with a passion. It's not hard to understand why Lelouch relented and gave Rolo exactly what he wanted to hear at the end, because even if he hated Rolo, that love and devotion Rolo had got through, and on his death bed, Lelouch could only pity him. He seems to not have any more room for hate. I think even his hatred for his father has lessened, or better put, become numb, and his resolution to kill his father is more out of a feeling of destiny and resolute-ness than actual hatred. He has nothing else to lose now.

I also think Suzaku is beyond hope.

And I sure as hell hope that it doesn't pull a Wolf's Rain. Pulling a Gungrave ending would be fucking ace though.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Again, I have less issue with Lelouch feeling bad once he realizes Rolo is dying because of him, after everything he said. I just hate the pacing. I hate the things that are left unresolved. And I hate how everyone can forgive it because they wanted Lelouch to forgive Rolo. I too wanted Lelouch to forgive Rolo, but it could have been done better.

Gungrave's ending was ambiguously gay. That's all I'll say about that, but because I loved Brandon and Harry so much and because Harry did love Brandon and Brandon loved him, I could accept it. Never would have flown in video game verse. Still, I'm iffy about crosskill. It borders on Romeo & Juliet, which I have always held in disdain.

[moonloop.livejournal.com]

I honestly have no idea where Sunrise is going with the story. They seem to be pulling it from a magic hat or something. Kind of makes me feel bad for watching this series. I'm gonna finish watching and hope that they end it without killing off the whole cast of characters. :/

grats sunrise

[lulu-quality.livejournal.com]

As always, your analyses are win, plain and simple! I'll probably comment more later on some topics, but one thing of note that stood out to me, that no one else has commented on, was Kallen's last line this episode. When Lelouch and Rolo (in Shinkurou) vanished thanks to Rolo's Geass, she says, shocked, "The same as Babel Tower--!" (I'm paraphrasing here). Everyone else has commented that Kallen wanted to die with Lelouch this episode, she will be one of his only followers, etc., but have passed over that significant line. The reason this is important is because Rolo was the one who killed Urabe and other BKs with that power; Urabe's final words, directed to Kallen, were to trust and follow Zero. Seeing that Lelouch had been using Urabe's killer and was protected by him is not going to leave a good impression. Will she follow him? Most likely. Will she follow him as emphatically as before, tail wagging? Maybe not. She's going to confront him about it and this time I don't think she'll let him avoid the situation.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Oooh super awesome catch! Actually I did notice that in the episode and amid my Lelouch ramblings completely forgot to bring it up. Thank you so so much. It is a crucial piece of information. I didn't take it so far as to match it up with Urabe, which is another clever move. That could indeed throw a wrench in their potential reunion. I don't think Kallen quite does the tail-wagging anymore; I think she truly and honestly loves Lelouch. One-sided probably. So she'll be angry yes, as she should be, but I do hope she makes Lelouch tell her more about Geass.

[breepants.livejournal.com]

I think I'm the only one who is "Team Ougi." I don't feel like it was a betrayal much, only because it was going to happen. Zero used the Black Knights for his own selfish reasons, and he played dirty doing it. Sure, the Black Knights used Zero for their own ends, but they had a much more wholesome reason to do so. They wanted peace, while Zero wanted chaos.

I like Ougi. In the midst of all the outrageous and larger-than-life characters, he was the "average guy" who had "average actions."

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I'm not angry at him, per say. I'm more angry at his characterization. Or lack of this season. He is only associated with Villetta, and Ougi was so much more in S1. I'm disappointed. I did like Ougi because he was the average guy. Damn Chigusa.

[rainbow-cnxn.livejournal.com]

It's fortunate that I forgot some things because it means I am back at home right now and have internet access! \o/

Great post, as always. Just a few things. I completely forgot that what Lelouch told Kallen was exactly what Guilford told his "princess". Instead, I immediately thought back to the "Live!" geass. When it comes down to it, live or die, win or lose, Lelouch is always looking out for those closest to him. Of course, the circumstances of his statements to Kallen and Suzaku are...very different, but the sincerity and good intentions of his words are the same.

I thought the scene where the Order tries to kill Lelouch was very well done. You're right--Lelouch at his best. And I loved that it was so similar to the cave scene, but in the end, a tiny bit of sincerity from Lelouch completely changed Kallen's reaction. No running away this time.

I also thought that Nina's reaction was cheap. I never particularly liked her, but "I didn't know what would happen!" is rather unbelievable. Even if I didn't like her, she could have been an awesome character, but Sunrise just had to shortchange her like that. Tsk.

No comments about Rolo and Lelouch because I need to watch their exchange more than one time before I want to talk about it. Suffice it to say that I loved it. Perhaps a bit rushed, but still wonderfully nuanced, nonetheless.

I rather hoped to see a light bulb go off in Toudou's head once Lelouch unmask himself. Zero's "abnormal relationship" with the Knight of Seven ought to make a whole lot more sense to him now. What else? Yay Cornelia. And Gino sitting in that chair in the preview is incredibly hot. Sunday be here, plz.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I considering the "Live" geass moment, and you're right, it is worth noticing the comparison. I don't think they're quite that different. Lelouch really did just want Suzaku to survive and stop trying to kill himself.

The cave scene? I'm intrigued that he told her the truth. I think it says a lot about his mental state and possibly his development. Omg Lelouch development! CAN IT BE?

Science is unpredictable. I think Nina expected death and destruction just not on that level. It was the same with the nuclear bombs, I believe.

That's right. Tohdoh should know Lelouch from when he trained Suzaku. I completely forgot about that. I want a reaction too now.

[robotlove.livejournal.com]

Some have attributed Lelouch's shock, considering everything that was happening to him in that scene.

I do agree; I think it worked for me mostly because Geass seems to love packing so much action, angst and drama into one episode and I'm getting used to it - furthermore this also means Lelouch himself was also forced to deal with and face the turn of events as they were. Apparently the Knights all taking aim at him required a reaction other than another "Where's Nunnally???" - it looks like this woke him up and from there, he remained sane enough to deal with Rolo's rescue.
So in other words I bought it as well.
I do want more on his reaction to Nunnally though - if that's the last of it we'll see (though I doubt it) then something WILL be quite off.

I love how you analysed that bit on him lying to Kallen. I hope she'll return to his side after this too D:

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I also want more reaction to the loss of Nunnally. ;;

Well, I'm a strange breed of Kallen/Lelouch fan in that I don't actually want them to hook up but love their chemistry/dynamic. I'm a sucker for devotion, and she has it in spades. When R2 ends, I think I'm going to make an AMV for them using Three Days Grace's "Riot".

[faye-naruse.livejournal.com]

I agree with a looot of the things you said, especially the part about Kallen joining him :]

I have to say Stage 23 parallel anyone?
That's what I was thinking! =O

And about the OP, thanks for pointing that out, I didn't notice >///<

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Someone other than me pointed out the OP thing earlier.

The Stage 23 parallel makes the whole thing feel very eerie to me.

[klingon-jedi.livejournal.com]

Great thoughts as always. It'd be a shame if you can't continue, as they're always enlightening. Though if you must, you must.

I agree on Lelouch's outburst. It really drove home how he just didn't care anymore. Rolo could've acted in any way. It didn't matter. It help set up his willingness to die towards the end, as he knew how unstable Rolo is.It didn't cover everthing we would've liked, but was still epic.

As for why he didn't try there, it never occurred to me. I would've liked a mention of Shirley (if only because i still reel from that "Good Job"), but in moments like that, one tends to just blurt and be blunt. He's also so facing inward at the moment, I think he's yelling to just get him out of his face. It's not anger just towards Rolo, but at himself and the situation. He's too focused inward to think of killing Rolo. Especially since Rolo isn't the whole source here.

Though I'm not quite getting all those who think he doesn't want him dead. Where does this theory come from? I don't think it's a subconscious thing at all, but exactly as he says. "I've tried to kill you, I've just kept failing at it". I'm practically certain that if it weren't for his Geass and usefulness in the fight against VV, Lelouch probably would've choked the kid right there at the station. Sure, his only active attempt was in 14, but when has he had the chance since. Following the fight with VV, you had the showdown with Charles, the World of C, CC regressing, and pressure to rescue Nunnally before his father uses her to drive a further wedge in the disasterous turn with Suzaku. When has he had the time to simply dwell on revenge for Shirley? He hasn't, plain and simple. Add to Rolo still being somewhat useful, or even in the background, and it's simply a matter of not getting around to it because of more pressing matters. Lelouch knows his priorities. Also, him trusting Rolo to save Nunnally shows just how not in the right mind he's been. Had the incidents with CC and Suzaku not happened, I'm sure Rolo would've been long dead by now. Chalking it up to a subconscious desire not to kill him is like saying he had a subconscious desire not to rescue Kallen just because he took about ten episodes to do it (though that was due to Sunrise starting their "let's remove everything from him" bit with Shirley). ^_^

It does almost beg the question, why was it Rolo who killed Shirley? Aside from setting up the whole Geass Cult bit and giving reason to Lelouch to kill Rolo, not much came of it. Though it also made his threat to kill Nunnally creditable. That, and it kept them from villianizing Orange or having Lelouch accidentally doing so. It does seem like a loose thread though, now that Lelouch has seemingly dropped the vengeance bit. It sure helps bolster her detractors.

The rescue scene to me seemed very much a case of Lelouch giving up. Like you masterfully pointed out, he'd just given the performance of his life. Telling everyone what they wanted to hear, ready to die the villain. He just can't accept that someone, especially one that he had just torn asunder, would sacrifice himself for someone as now empty and worthless as Lelouch probably views himself. Why should anyone now die for him, even if it is Rolo?

This is, what...the third time LJ's limits have come into play?

[klingon-jedi.livejournal.com]

The final scene is how you say. Rolo holds it so precious that he's willing to delude himself into thinking the outburst was the lie. As he says, Lelouch made him human, even if he doesn't realise what sort of warped individual he still was. I'll never like Rolo for not realising what a selfish bastard he was that he's hurt that which he loves just to keep it. For Lelouch's part, it does seem like he's forgiven Rolo. Maybe he has. Coupled with Sunrise dropping her from the chart (for crying out loud, Clovis is still on it, and he's been dead 39 episodes! why to stick it to her fans and make her death appear meaningless outside of just taking her away), it almost does seem like he's forgetting Shirley (though he thankfully mentions her) or Sunrise downplaying her. Or maybe just taking her example. I'll admit that I very much wanted Lelouch to kill him, but in a way, this is sort of redeeming for him. He's even lost one chance for vengeance (one that the one being avenged would be against). So maybe it's a good thing. Though I have to agree it feels a bit odd, if only in how Sunrise has had it with the chart.

As for Rolo/Nunnally, does anything need to be said? I'm sure all Lelou has to do is think about it and he'll probably realise the kid would try to kill her. Though I agree that so much is wasted. I would've loved a full out confessional about Shirley, Nunna, and so on. Oh well. We did get the outburst though, and that worked beautifully.

I love the bit on the double meaning and the line about being Lamperouge's brother.

I'm rather peeved at the dark knights, particularly Ougi, but he's no surprise (as 4chan put it "Ougi got laid, then he betrayed", though he'd never been trustful of Zero much any way. Diethard's stunt with Villetta didn't help). Ougi could have seen it differently, as he hasn't been the most honest either (Mr. hiding a fling with a amnesiac Brittanian). One had countless characters pointing out that, despite it all, Zero was the miracle worker. Maybe he did hide his identity. I can see where the Geass factor would be a bitter pill. But without him, they'd be just terrorists. Disorganized, ill equipped, probably with even more dead to bury (including Kallen). To resort to outright execution while being clearly manipulated by THE ENEMY just because he may have "hypnotized" them into following him was a bit much. What justice is this? Hand him over sure, but kill him? i would've at least thought Todo would wait for something other than a few words from Zero. I didn't catch that it was Guilford's line. It does make one think.

[tarkara.livejournal.com]

Could someone explain "pulling a Wolf's rain"?

I only watched 4 epsiodes of it then couldn't bear anymore.

SPOILERS, NO DUH. DON'T LIKE DON'T READ.

[renabunny42.livejournal.com]

More or less the series ended on a nice, if not quite all resolved note. Then we had the OVAs, where over four eps they kill all the main characters. It was pretty gut wrenching, and I saw the series without the OVA ending the first time so it really surprised me when I saw it the second time around. The world ends up reborn at the end it seems, looking more like our earth, but yeah. Oh Wolf's Rain |D

[icki-akki.livejournal.com]

The Lloyd line made me smile. <3 It was totally cool to see some deeper characterization with him. I mean, most of the time he's just fooling around being silly, but this line gives us some insight further into his character. It also proves that he does have a heart (or at least he did at one point) and isn't just some overgrown child who loves his robot playthings and doesn't really care about anything else.

I was a little disappointed in Ougi, too. D: Still love him, still love OugixViletta, but I really didn't want it to end like this. -.- Kinda corny and extreme, don't you think?

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Yes, I want it to lead to even more Lloyd development but probably not. Still, he does have to design the next level of Lancelot so maybe there's still a chance...

I'm a Jeremiah/Villetta fangirl so I have an automatic bias. XD

[furato.livejournal.com]

Why does everyone say Ougi did what he did for a woman? I mean, back in S1, he was leaning to support SAR because of his relationship with Chigusa. But when the SAR idea went awry, he was with Zero. When he got shot, Zero brushed him aside ("I'll think of a replacement later!"). Then Zero abandoned the Black Knights and got them captured and almost executed. Even when Zero redeemed himself by saving them in R2 later, Zero still offered no explanation. Ougi and Toudou time and again keep convincing the lower people to follow Zero. Even though they themselves probably doesn't trust Zero 100% either.

The thing is... suspicion towards Zero has prevailed for long. Lelouch shows the behaviour of not caring about the OoBK again in Turn 18, so who knows, maybe he'd leave them to death again like in episode 24? Knowing that the Euphemia incident, massacre of thousands of Japanese, was orchestrated by Zero was probably the clincher, Viletta or no Viletta. The OoBK has lost comrades too, and knowing they're just pawns in Zero's personal charade is probably what drove them off the edge. Lelouch himself, having lost Nunnally, his everything, wasn't in the mood to save himself either, rather he lied and say it's all a game.

I think they should be more suspicious of Schneizel, but this is Schneizel here, the man who conquered half of Europe armed with a silver tongue. He presents truths, lies and half-truths in good timing to sway people to his will.

[gacktsuki.livejournal.com]

Yes, Schneizel is the true bastard here. BTW, i love your nodame icon.

[individual.livejournal.com]

Ok, so, is Nunally actually dead? I know there's still a lot of speculation going on about that, and to be honest, I'm not so sure I believe it. With the way that, say, Euphie's death was glorified (well, more like.... epic, I guess. Detailed.) I have a hard time believing someone as important as Nunally is dead just like that. Did they change the chart or something?

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Nobody knows but the correlation chart says so... The topic makes me sad. Which is why I didn't take it on. I have several issues with it being the case, not including my just plain thinking it sucks.