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code_geass2008-08-18 06:46 pm
nayami.livejournal.com) wrote in code_geass2008-08-18 06:46 pm
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Turn 19 Discussion: Sacrifice Move
I'm back from Otakon hiatus. Aren't explosions fun, children? And then there was the aftermath. Few notes as usual. Please do not spoil me with post-19 things (interviews, magazine summaries, speculations, ect.). It makes me sad and it also makes me delete your comment. That said, speculate all you like. Even use the spoilers in your speculations. Just do not tell me they are spoilers. We good? We good. Also can't say for sure whether you'll see any more of these from me. Sob.
But before we began, I have a special treat for my happy readers.
[Poll #1244206]
ETA: Poll results say y'all are chickens. But I'm right there with you. :(
And now back to your scheduled ramblings.
Since I haven't in a while I will start with Lelouch. Mainly because everyone else has taken on Rolo but I have some surprises in store for him. Lelouch for me was a tough sell in this episode because I did think things were rushed. Let's focus on the positives first. Because right now, Geass could really use some positives. The Lelouch freaking out at Rolo scene was definitely my favorite here, gorgeously animated, brutally honest Lelouch -- a real rarity -- and a display of how Lelouch just doesn't want to care about anything anymore or think for that matter. I loved watching the gradual changes in his line of vision from barely glancing at Rolo's keychain to snapping when he hears Rolo tell Jeremiah that Rolo is all Lelouch needs. That Lelouch would reveal his entire plan to Rolo is just amazing, given how deceitful and sneaky Lelouch has been to this point. Rolo could have killed him right there, and he doesn't even care. All he has is his rage. Also I just love the bluntness of "I tried to kill you several times! I just haven't succeeded yet!" Admitting failures too, are we, Lelouch? The whole thing is a mesmerizing descent into Lelouch's shattered psyche.
But there is one more piece to this scene. And one that both plagues and intrigues me. Why doesn't Lelouch try to kill Rolo there? You could say maybe he doesn't have a gun. But hell, Lelouch always has guns. I don't even know where he keeps them anymore. You could say he fears Rolo's Geass. No he doesn't. He just told Rolo he hated him; he's not thinking at all. He just gave away everything. There is no methodology here. You could say he's too damn pissed to think about killing Rolo and just wants him out of his face. I guess that's more likely than the other options. But then there's the question of following the insanity of Turn 14 why Lelouch never again tries to kill Rolo. He still needs him? He was fully ready to trump his superweapon "brother" in 14 so why does necessity matter now? He even sends him after Nunnally. I don't know what Sunrise is getting at here. The whole thing has always felt... off. Almost like after he chilled from his post-14 RAAAAGE, Lelouch subconsciously did not want to kill Rolo. And this isn't fangirl speaking, this is plain and simple WTF.
The WTF follows us to Rolo's rescue of Lelouch. Lelouch, who had been ready to die a moment ago, takes his chance at life again when it's offered to him, all the while arguing about why he doesn't deserve it. Lelouch's usual contradictions acting up? But this argument is weak and more protesting than true anger. Does he want Rolo to let him die? Or does he just want Rolo uninvolved? After his display the last time Rolo was involved ("DON'T EVER APPEAR BEFORE ME AGAIN! GET OUT!!!!"), it seems strange that Lelouch isn't so much irritated that Rolo is around him than that he is interfering. "You don't have to do this. I have nothing left to live for." I'm not sure how I feel about it really. Some have attributed Lelouch's shock, considering everything that was happening to him in that scene. I think it is my discomfort with this reaction that makes Lelouch's guilt about Rolo slowly killing himself seem like it comes too quick. Lelouch is a messed-up boy, and love takes him a while to fully comprehend. And when it does, it all but nails him in the face. So I can accept that Lelouch was affected by the fact that this boy, who he wanted to kill who he hated so much, was going to die for him. I still have major issues with no thoughts given to Shirley during this scene. And I don't want to hear time constraints. Bad form, Geass.
Final scene between the "brothers." It did break my heart that Rolo told Lelouch he thought Lelouch was lying when he said he hated him. And of course Lelouch lies right back. At the risk of getting slapped, I have to say Stage 23 parallel anyone? No, I'm serious about that. Lelouch lies and smiles at him, which is almost more disturbing since it's not much different from the fake smiles Lelouch has given him throughout the season. How fake were they? These are the smiles Rolo learned to love and trust, the smiles that told him that their moments were real. "Your big brother is a liar" comes with a double meaning, I believe. And again, don't hit me. I think in part, this is Lelouch speaking to Nunnally as well. He never got to apologize for his lies to her. It just seems to be so much more when Lelouch grows sad and glances down at the locket again. Who knows? Maybe I'm sill mopey about that correlation chart.
But of course, Lelouch introspection would hardly be complete without the GREAT BETRAYAL. Or hell, I just want to focus on him and Kallen. I loved Kallen's face when she walked in on him and C.C. and thought lewdness was afoot. Kallen has the cutest blushes. I loved even more when she realized that C.C. was gone and Lelouch was truly alone. More so that she missed C.C. herself. The realization that Lelouch had nobody left to trust is what almost led to her opening up to him, I think. Kallen wanted to give him at least one more person to believe in. She wanted to give him good memories too with the mention of Nunnally and that Nunnally helped her. I do love how Lelouch tells her he's sorry he didn't rescue her, especially since his tone is so weary and dead. He's just trying to repay her for what she's offering him. And then their big scene. Forget romantic. It's just powerful. Lelouch protecting again, as only he can do by turning everyone against him. Oh that dark forced laugh, the denouncement of everything, the slick smile to Kallen. Magical all of it. Lelouch acting at his best. Lying because he needs to protect. And for once, maybe because he has nothing maybe because he thinks he's going to die maybe because it all doesn't matter anymore, Lelouch lets someone in on his game. He shows her the truth. The reference to Guilford's final words is also unique in this moment, but I sadly have no hypotheses as to what it means. Maybe Lelouch saw something in Guilford's devotion to his princess. Maybe it was something he wanted to share. I do hope Kallen returns to him. As much as I love Lelouch on his own (AKA WITHOUT THE DAMN KNIGHTS), I can make a few exceptions.
Now that he's lost everything, what is Lelouch's path? Taking his father with him to hell? Does Lelouch care about living anymore? Is it just a drive now? Dark stuff, Sunrise. Let's see if you make it worth it...
Some people thought I was going to do a deep insightful piece on Rolo here, but I don't think Rolo needs much explanation. He saved the brother he loved. Because Lelouch is his mission, his purpose in life. His raison d'entre. Ironic no? And with the unconditional love of a brother, a brother who couldn't help but still believe that it was all a lie and that Lelouch did love him back, Rolo forgave. But this is not without its own flaws. The major one being Nunnally and that her situation with Rolo is never resolved. Rolo never tells Lelouch he was going to kill Nunnally. I guess I couldn't expect him too but in the end, understanding is tainted in lies. The way of Geass. It doesn't mean I have to like it. It doesn't mean I have to believe it was deliberate either... I did like Rolo's announcement that after being a tool his whole life, sacrificing himself for Lelouch was his will. But I wonder how much Rolo truly believed that Lelouch had been lying about the way he felt for him and how much he convinced himself of that because it was easier that way. When you get right down to it, yes Rolo was a bastard for killing Shirley. But Lelouch hurt him almost as much and also out of love for another. Maybe it's true: Rolo is not Lelouch vi Britannia's brother but Lelouch Lamperouge's. He is the brother of a liar and a murderer, a sinner whose life has been shaped by his circumstances. No longer the same Lelouch that lost sleep over which sister he loved more and who rejoiced at the idea of simply having a friend. But how lost is that Lelouch is the ultimate question?
Suzaku. The one who should have received more screentime considering what he just did. So why the flashes? If they're not going to give him any significant moment, why return to him time and time again? It was important to Sunrise to show the passage of time, to show that Suzaku reflected on that crater, on the deaths, on Nunnally until dusk. I can't help but think there must be some symbolism in that. Especially since the OP now has its final scene turned from day into night. It also becomes painfully clear that of all the deaths he is responsible for, Nunnally hurts him the most. Thanks for bringing that up, Jeremiah. Speaking of him, I wonder whether he'll search for Lelouch. His loyalty is not to the Order but to his prince. Will he hate Lelouch too for the charges Schneizel brings against him? I very much doubt it; he has no attachment to any of the others. And where exactly is Suzaku right now? The preview shows him seeming fairly sane but what is his goal now? I doubt it's killing Lelouch/Zero. Back to the death wish? Well, that's one thing him and Lelouch have in common now. Yay. What I want to know most is whether anyone can help Suzaku? Even if he has those who still care about him (Cecile, Lloyd... Gino?), whether they can actually reach him is up in the air.
I will also quickly touch upon Nina, who could go either way. Making her unaware of FREIA's potential is... iffy but I kind of saw it coming. I do love Lloyd in this scene. Who would have thought "I've been broken since the beginning" would be his line? And Schneizel better not turn into a red herring since the storyline is veering away from him, now that Lelouch is done with his Knights. Also, Schneizel, I don't think your relationship with Lelouch is healthy... I did enjoy finally seeing Cornelia take charge again. It was awesome when she countered Ougi. Ougi. God, what happened to you, man? The only one who could understand Zero. And you gave it all up for a woman. Ougi is the only Knight I'm actually sad about losing, aside from Kallen. I don't think Ougi was done right at all. I understand his frustration with Zero for the Geass and Japan but... I don't know. I just didn't like it. Tamaki was hilarity as always. Ok, I will miss his big dumb self tagging along like a yippy dog. Everyone else THANK GOD. Too many characters. I loved Laksharta and Deithard but yeesh. GOOD RIDDANCE BLACK KNIGHTS! Yes, I'm aware they will probably still show up. Let me have my delusions. They are all I have left. Uh... also Gino. Sadness. Woe. Sadness.
I have absolutely no idea what Geass plans to do anymore. This could be a good thing or a bad thing. :\ Right now, I just hope for sanity.
But before we began, I have a special treat for my happy readers.
[Poll #1244206]
ETA: Poll results say y'all are chickens. But I'm right there with you. :(
And now back to your scheduled ramblings.
Since I haven't in a while I will start with Lelouch. Mainly because everyone else has taken on Rolo but I have some surprises in store for him. Lelouch for me was a tough sell in this episode because I did think things were rushed. Let's focus on the positives first. Because right now, Geass could really use some positives. The Lelouch freaking out at Rolo scene was definitely my favorite here, gorgeously animated, brutally honest Lelouch -- a real rarity -- and a display of how Lelouch just doesn't want to care about anything anymore or think for that matter. I loved watching the gradual changes in his line of vision from barely glancing at Rolo's keychain to snapping when he hears Rolo tell Jeremiah that Rolo is all Lelouch needs. That Lelouch would reveal his entire plan to Rolo is just amazing, given how deceitful and sneaky Lelouch has been to this point. Rolo could have killed him right there, and he doesn't even care. All he has is his rage. Also I just love the bluntness of "I tried to kill you several times! I just haven't succeeded yet!" Admitting failures too, are we, Lelouch? The whole thing is a mesmerizing descent into Lelouch's shattered psyche.
But there is one more piece to this scene. And one that both plagues and intrigues me. Why doesn't Lelouch try to kill Rolo there? You could say maybe he doesn't have a gun. But hell, Lelouch always has guns. I don't even know where he keeps them anymore. You could say he fears Rolo's Geass. No he doesn't. He just told Rolo he hated him; he's not thinking at all. He just gave away everything. There is no methodology here. You could say he's too damn pissed to think about killing Rolo and just wants him out of his face. I guess that's more likely than the other options. But then there's the question of following the insanity of Turn 14 why Lelouch never again tries to kill Rolo. He still needs him? He was fully ready to trump his superweapon "brother" in 14 so why does necessity matter now? He even sends him after Nunnally. I don't know what Sunrise is getting at here. The whole thing has always felt... off. Almost like after he chilled from his post-14 RAAAAGE, Lelouch subconsciously did not want to kill Rolo. And this isn't fangirl speaking, this is plain and simple WTF.
The WTF follows us to Rolo's rescue of Lelouch. Lelouch, who had been ready to die a moment ago, takes his chance at life again when it's offered to him, all the while arguing about why he doesn't deserve it. Lelouch's usual contradictions acting up? But this argument is weak and more protesting than true anger. Does he want Rolo to let him die? Or does he just want Rolo uninvolved? After his display the last time Rolo was involved ("DON'T EVER APPEAR BEFORE ME AGAIN! GET OUT!!!!"), it seems strange that Lelouch isn't so much irritated that Rolo is around him than that he is interfering. "You don't have to do this. I have nothing left to live for." I'm not sure how I feel about it really. Some have attributed Lelouch's shock, considering everything that was happening to him in that scene. I think it is my discomfort with this reaction that makes Lelouch's guilt about Rolo slowly killing himself seem like it comes too quick. Lelouch is a messed-up boy, and love takes him a while to fully comprehend. And when it does, it all but nails him in the face. So I can accept that Lelouch was affected by the fact that this boy, who he wanted to kill who he hated so much, was going to die for him. I still have major issues with no thoughts given to Shirley during this scene. And I don't want to hear time constraints. Bad form, Geass.
Final scene between the "brothers." It did break my heart that Rolo told Lelouch he thought Lelouch was lying when he said he hated him. And of course Lelouch lies right back. At the risk of getting slapped, I have to say Stage 23 parallel anyone? No, I'm serious about that. Lelouch lies and smiles at him, which is almost more disturbing since it's not much different from the fake smiles Lelouch has given him throughout the season. How fake were they? These are the smiles Rolo learned to love and trust, the smiles that told him that their moments were real. "Your big brother is a liar" comes with a double meaning, I believe. And again, don't hit me. I think in part, this is Lelouch speaking to Nunnally as well. He never got to apologize for his lies to her. It just seems to be so much more when Lelouch grows sad and glances down at the locket again. Who knows? Maybe I'm sill mopey about that correlation chart.
But of course, Lelouch introspection would hardly be complete without the GREAT BETRAYAL. Or hell, I just want to focus on him and Kallen. I loved Kallen's face when she walked in on him and C.C. and thought lewdness was afoot. Kallen has the cutest blushes. I loved even more when she realized that C.C. was gone and Lelouch was truly alone. More so that she missed C.C. herself. The realization that Lelouch had nobody left to trust is what almost led to her opening up to him, I think. Kallen wanted to give him at least one more person to believe in. She wanted to give him good memories too with the mention of Nunnally and that Nunnally helped her. I do love how Lelouch tells her he's sorry he didn't rescue her, especially since his tone is so weary and dead. He's just trying to repay her for what she's offering him. And then their big scene. Forget romantic. It's just powerful. Lelouch protecting again, as only he can do by turning everyone against him. Oh that dark forced laugh, the denouncement of everything, the slick smile to Kallen. Magical all of it. Lelouch acting at his best. Lying because he needs to protect. And for once, maybe because he has nothing maybe because he thinks he's going to die maybe because it all doesn't matter anymore, Lelouch lets someone in on his game. He shows her the truth. The reference to Guilford's final words is also unique in this moment, but I sadly have no hypotheses as to what it means. Maybe Lelouch saw something in Guilford's devotion to his princess. Maybe it was something he wanted to share. I do hope Kallen returns to him. As much as I love Lelouch on his own (AKA WITHOUT THE DAMN KNIGHTS), I can make a few exceptions.
Now that he's lost everything, what is Lelouch's path? Taking his father with him to hell? Does Lelouch care about living anymore? Is it just a drive now? Dark stuff, Sunrise. Let's see if you make it worth it...
Some people thought I was going to do a deep insightful piece on Rolo here, but I don't think Rolo needs much explanation. He saved the brother he loved. Because Lelouch is his mission, his purpose in life. His raison d'entre. Ironic no? And with the unconditional love of a brother, a brother who couldn't help but still believe that it was all a lie and that Lelouch did love him back, Rolo forgave. But this is not without its own flaws. The major one being Nunnally and that her situation with Rolo is never resolved. Rolo never tells Lelouch he was going to kill Nunnally. I guess I couldn't expect him too but in the end, understanding is tainted in lies. The way of Geass. It doesn't mean I have to like it. It doesn't mean I have to believe it was deliberate either... I did like Rolo's announcement that after being a tool his whole life, sacrificing himself for Lelouch was his will. But I wonder how much Rolo truly believed that Lelouch had been lying about the way he felt for him and how much he convinced himself of that because it was easier that way. When you get right down to it, yes Rolo was a bastard for killing Shirley. But Lelouch hurt him almost as much and also out of love for another. Maybe it's true: Rolo is not Lelouch vi Britannia's brother but Lelouch Lamperouge's. He is the brother of a liar and a murderer, a sinner whose life has been shaped by his circumstances. No longer the same Lelouch that lost sleep over which sister he loved more and who rejoiced at the idea of simply having a friend. But how lost is that Lelouch is the ultimate question?
Suzaku. The one who should have received more screentime considering what he just did. So why the flashes? If they're not going to give him any significant moment, why return to him time and time again? It was important to Sunrise to show the passage of time, to show that Suzaku reflected on that crater, on the deaths, on Nunnally until dusk. I can't help but think there must be some symbolism in that. Especially since the OP now has its final scene turned from day into night. It also becomes painfully clear that of all the deaths he is responsible for, Nunnally hurts him the most. Thanks for bringing that up, Jeremiah. Speaking of him, I wonder whether he'll search for Lelouch. His loyalty is not to the Order but to his prince. Will he hate Lelouch too for the charges Schneizel brings against him? I very much doubt it; he has no attachment to any of the others. And where exactly is Suzaku right now? The preview shows him seeming fairly sane but what is his goal now? I doubt it's killing Lelouch/Zero. Back to the death wish? Well, that's one thing him and Lelouch have in common now. Yay. What I want to know most is whether anyone can help Suzaku? Even if he has those who still care about him (Cecile, Lloyd... Gino?), whether they can actually reach him is up in the air.
I will also quickly touch upon Nina, who could go either way. Making her unaware of FREIA's potential is... iffy but I kind of saw it coming. I do love Lloyd in this scene. Who would have thought "I've been broken since the beginning" would be his line? And Schneizel better not turn into a red herring since the storyline is veering away from him, now that Lelouch is done with his Knights. Also, Schneizel, I don't think your relationship with Lelouch is healthy... I did enjoy finally seeing Cornelia take charge again. It was awesome when she countered Ougi. Ougi. God, what happened to you, man? The only one who could understand Zero. And you gave it all up for a woman. Ougi is the only Knight I'm actually sad about losing, aside from Kallen. I don't think Ougi was done right at all. I understand his frustration with Zero for the Geass and Japan but... I don't know. I just didn't like it. Tamaki was hilarity as always. Ok, I will miss his big dumb self tagging along like a yippy dog. Everyone else THANK GOD. Too many characters. I loved Laksharta and Deithard but yeesh. GOOD RIDDANCE BLACK KNIGHTS! Yes, I'm aware they will probably still show up. Let me have my delusions. They are all I have left. Uh... also Gino. Sadness. Woe. Sadness.
I have absolutely no idea what Geass plans to do anymore. This could be a good thing or a bad thing. :\ Right now, I just hope for sanity.
Maybe i should just start posting blogs to respond to yours instead ^_^;;
Suzaku has a lot to ponder, and I loved all his little scenes (particularly Orange thanking him for his life). I'll admit that i don't analyse Suzaku much, so I'll leave it at that.
Nina had her, "So I am become Death. The Destroyer of Worlds" moment. Not knowing is iffy. After all, what did she think it would do? Lloyd was just awesome. Further proof that I must cosplay him.
There's a lot of places this could go. Lelouch has Orange, that's about it. I know Kallen should still keep some of the faith. Lelou's line to her might've tipped it off that it was just an act. Nice catch on the "Bable" line, Lulu Quality. I think he loyalties still there, but Lelouch might have some explaining to do.
Schneizel's got plenty more on his plate. He's nearly as good the actor as Lelouch. it seems the whole Royal family should just start a travelling theatre group. They'd make millions.
We still don't know the nature of Anya's memory Geass. She's had her head messed with a lot it seems, and is prone to the same reactions as CC. Why? She's got some connection to Geass and Lelouch. Obviously it's to forgot about this. Some interesting rumors abound about it to that I wish I hadn't read. Though it seems convenient. She also seems to get Geassed in the nest episode, or maybe Geass-cancelled?
I'm sure CC will come to her senses. She's too good a character to waste, especially as the only one to be capable of truly understand Lelouch now.
Even without VV, Charles is moving forth with his Twilight of the Gods. Gino looks like he's in hot water. Could he be a new follower of Lelouch? I also don't think this is the end of the Black Knights. Perhaps they'll realise just how messed up their reaction was, and how they played right into Schneizel's hands. Lelouch's mask is worthless now, and he must lead without his repertoire of lies. It would be nice to see Lelouch vi Brittania, not the lie that is Zero, lead them out of a real sense of truth and justice. For the world, not just Japan.
Re: Maybe i should just start posting blogs to respond to yours instead ^_^;;
damn LJ and their comment character limits!Re: Yes that might be for the best. XD
The "not really wanting him dead" is me trying to cover up for Sunrise's "let's rush Lelouch over here wait no over here wait no over here" following Turn 14. But yes, Lelouch didn't really have another opportunity to go for Rolo. Which is what made the whole sending Rolo after Nunnally so hard to buy since from what we saw, he should have fully known how dangerous and unstable Rolo could be. You don't send people you hate to protect your beloved sister. The logic is fail, especially for a master tactician. Then again, Lelouch logic can enter fail levels when it involves Nunnally.
But yes, the whole thing makes me wonder whether someone else was originally supposed to kill Shirley. I don't think Rolo was originally supposed to be part of the storyline, and an interview from one of the production books indicates things in the second season had to be seriously reconfigured when the creators learned they lost their usual time slot. It leaves a lot up in the air as to how much of what we get is their true vision and how much is plot holes that result from this change-up.
As for Rolo, they say you always hurt the ones you love. Selfish love is a common theme in Geass really. Lelouch is incredibly selfish when it comes to those he loves. Geassing Suzaku to live was pretty damn selfish. Wanting to make an ideal world for Nunnally without ever considering her desires also selfish.
But I do agree that Sunrise really dropped the ball as to acknowledging Shirley in any way beyond a plot point, which I really hate because Shirley was amazing in Turn 13.
I understand the Knights' anger at Zero for using them. I understand their fear of Geass and their confusion about the massacres and the general weirdness of what happened with FREIA. But how quickly they forget that Zero did save them from execution. He went through a lot of trouble for it. Zero did give them what they wanted; they were working toward a true independence from Britannia. He gave them allies. He gave them a government. And while I don't expect most of the Knights to allow one to cancel out the other, I would think the leader of the team, Zero's second in command would have a bit more perspective. I don't know what they could have done with Ougi instead. But I thought this just made his character look... bad.
I now want fanfic of the Britannians as a traveling theater group, thank you.
I make no guesses on Anya as the Nunnally thing still makes me sad. :(
I love that Zero is maskless now. I love that he's going to have to be Lelouch and that Lelouch Lamperouge is arguably nonexistent at this point. Though as I pointed out above, he's not exactly Lelouch vi Britannia either. Who knows what he is? Suzaku is in the same boat. He surely can no longer be a Knight of Britannia but he's not exactly Kururugi Suzaku either. Identity crisis major.
I don't want Lelouch to take his Knights back if the circumstances go that way (not sure how yet), but I know he will because he's Lelouch and that's what he does.
Re: Yes that might be for the best. XD
Does anyone suppose that if Lelouch had tried, he might actually have been able to psych the kid into believing that Nunnally is/will be FAMILY (and love and joy and happiness and what have you) as well??
In fact, wouldn't that actually have made things alot easier in some cases? :/
Or maybe Lulu just didn't have enough time to even consider that in the first place.
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I'm not really speaking out of well-informed perspective here (considering I'm still stuck halfway at turn 08 and jumped on to 19 because I just had to see it), though that does make sense. D:
what a warped show. But I still love it ahahah ^^"
Re: Yes that might be for the best. XD
I see. Though I know most of the fans who say it are probably either hopeless for Rolo, or disparaging for Shirley. As for Nunnally, I know someone pointed out how him sending Rolo was representative to just how far he'd fallen and how he felt he had no one left to trust. I thought it was you, but I've read a lot. It is failure logic, which I think was the point.
It's really interesting to keep hearing about the vast changes the show received. Where does this info come from, as I'd love to know more? The only thing I've noticed is that it does seem a tad rushed at times. Just look at Shirley. Past the Mao arc, they spent the entire reminder of the season with her forgetting, finding the letter, and expressing her uncertainties about Lelouch. Come R2, they do nothing with her for most of it (fuelling the "filler character" comments demonstrated in that one thread[why, just because she wasn't a BK?]), and the moment that arc's climax is finally brought up it's ended in the very next episode! Granted, they can't dwell on it like they could before, and use it to start his whole "losing everything" spiral, but I was amazed how quickly they cut that loose thread (heck, I began to think they would've just ignored it, leaving her Geassed and happy, however unsatisfying that could be). So yeah, it does seem like they didn't plan things out as much, and maybe should have had her memory return a lot sooner.
Rolo killing her did work well, as it did develop his character and kept other characters from having to do it. I think many figured she'd die saving Lelouch from a blow by Orange. Though that doesn't work in having him switch sides. It seems it was simply a matter of convenience that just worked out. though Lelouch not getting his revenge, and her dropping from the chart again fuels the haters.
I never said the others weren't selfish, and you make a great point in it's use as a theme. Though Geassing someone to live and trying to create a better world for your sister whether she's already happy or not isn't quite on the same level as killing your loved one's "in all but name only" girlfriend just because she wants to get closer and mentions a little secret you don't like acknowledging, and then intending to also kill his beloved sister, which he's entrusted you with protecting, just because you need him all to yourself. Rolo is a good character, but damn.
It does such that they have downplayed Shirley after raising her so high in 13. Though the show's not over yet, and Lelouch did mention her. As long as that remains, it doesn't totally suck. It's sort of what they've been doing with Euphy. That occasional, "I'm so still driven by her death" moments.
I did see the instance with the Black Knights coming, particularly Ougi, I just didn't think it would be so extreme.
I wouldn't put it past this show to come up with a way to revive them. Heck, how about a nice crack twist in that the whole Marianne thing is a product of Charle's geass (though that wouldn't work with Orange, as he's Geass-canceled himself so many times [itself something of a Deus Ex machina]).