Discussion

[vehemence.livejournal.com]

In light of episodes 22 and 23 [SPOILERS FOR THESE EPISODES], I wanted to see what other people think about



Some little thoughts:
Lelouch
From the beginning people have been calling Geass the crack addicted lovechild of Death Note and Gundam Seed. Or something like that. So the question is, will Lulu follow the path of Raito and end up a drooling, pathetic mess thrashing around on the ground while all his "friends" watch in horror/disgust? The way I see it, the boy is doomed. With the Death Note, there was always a strong element of choice. Every time Raito picked up the pen, he was making the choice all over again. But Lulu only made the choice once-- when he received the Geass. He can't undo that or make it go away. The only hope of redemption I see for him lies in Nunally, who is arguably the crucial factor which his sanity hangs upon. As long as she's alive and there to go "Nii-san... will you be home for dinner? *Weep* I miss you!" Lulu will stay strong. But Sunrise is practically shoving Lulu's descent into evil down our throats, all the mad cackling and twisted grins. And the fact that he has successfully alienated himself (through lies/manipulation/killing/etc) from almost every single one of his friends/allies, even if those friends/allies haven't realized it yet. Seems as though C.C. is the only who is truely on his side, knowing everything that he is and his true identity and shaitz, but even C.C. I am starting to doubt. Midway through ep. 23, when he is alone in that room with her, he shows a rare moment of weakness, and she comforts him. She says, "The one who will always be with you will always be me." I got shivers. Did she not promise almost the exact same thing to Mao?? I don't have past eps. on my computer but I seem to remember her saying something like that to a weepy child!Mao. And then after that in the hall she said Lelouch's mother's name to herself, "Marianne", WTF??? Now it's not that I don't trust her... okay, I just don't trust her. I don't think she'll be Lulu's ally to the end in this mess. I think we are in for some mind shattering revelations. Mind shattering for Lulu, that is.

So there's my rambing 2 cents on Lulu... and now,

Suzaku
Suzaku keeps surprising me. In the beginning I expected him to be a really straightforward Kira-type, who will angst and moan and then go kick some ass in his Gundam Knightmare. But the dark past... PATRICIDE!!... getting hit with some weird Geass effect by C.C. (which I still don't understand)... and now losing his er, one true love at the hands of the person who he will inevitably discover is actually his secret gay lover best friend!?! Someone needs to go stuff this boy into a CLAMP manga where he can murder Subaru and take his place as the new Sakurazukamori. *Cough* So anyways, I think Suzaku is better off in this than Lelouch. He has better coping skills, and no Geass to addle his brains.

Thoughts?

Comments

[zalem.livejournal.com]

I think Lelouch will be dead by the end of season two. The only question is how. I agree with the above poster...Light's death was painful for me. Especially since I'm a huge Light fan. I can see why they did it that way, of course, but I didn't like it. It seems the editor was just too intent on having Light punished in the worst possible way (or so rumors say).

Frankly, I don't think Lulu deserves that kind of end. Light was a ruthless cold-blooded killer. Lelouch is ruthless and selfish, but he still has a heart. Part of him is still good inside. That will remain the case so long as Nunnally is alive. Yes, he has a lot of sins riding on his head right now and he will probably commit more, but I don't think he deserves to end up a weeping, crawling, broken mess at the end. I'd prefer he go out with a bang. Die fighting to the end. Or die redeemed somehow. I don't see him winning and alive at the end of all this. I'd be shocked if that happens.

Oh the "Marianne" thing. C.C. wasn't just saying her name. She was TALKING to her. You know how she has been having those private conversations with an unknown someone throughout the series? Well Marianne is one of the people she's been talking to it turns out (the other being V.V.). That's what makes it so crazy. So either Marianne is alive or C.C. can speak to the dead. But I suppose if the Emperor can speak to dead Clovis, then C.C. can speak to dead people too. Really wonder what Marianne thinks of all this. O_O

Suzaku....sure he surprised me with the dark past and now he's hell bent on revenge. But still he is more like the typical mecha hero, so if anyone is still alive at the end it will be him. But then again they could surprise me and kill him off...

[infected-wound.livejournal.com]

Lelouch made his choices though, just like Suzaku did, and whether or not he's heartless or not, he brought it upon himself. So, while it's sad that he really can't have any other end but a, oh, death, all this time he's been hammering nails into his coffin ~

I hope though that, in the end, whether or not both of them die, Suzaku and Lelouch can rekindle their friendship. Even if it's for like, the last few minutes of their lives... Forgiveness is good :(

[sapphynashi.livejournal.com]

I am so with you on the forgiveness part, though I have no idea how they can possibly bridge the gap that's now between them. I just want some sort of sign that the BFF pieces will still be lying around among the rest of the carnage and broken hearts.

[infected-wound.livejournal.com]

I kind of believe that if anyone has the huge capacity to forgive, it should be Suzaku... but, considering how Lelouch offed? I think it'll be hard. Suzaku is so painfully kind... but after this? Gah. -_- I doubt he'll forgive Lelouch... but even then, I can hope.

I don't even want him to understand Lelouch's reasons. I just want him, in his last few minutes with Lelouch, to forgive Lelouch and just ignore whatever shit Lelouch did and... move on. -_- *sniffs*

Somehow, why do I like Suzaku so much? T_T MAYBE it's because I've never watched Gundam Seed!

[sapphynashi.livejournal.com]

I'm hoping that time will help. @_@ Though, I'm not sure about Suzaku being innately kind and forgiving. A lot of his nice acts put him in dangerous situations that were at least partly spurred by his pseudo death wish. I think he's a good person, yes, but capable of holding grudges for a loooong time. He spent seven years at odds with himself for killing his father. Although, it's easier to forgive others than yourself, so maybe I'm just wrong. XD;

I'm a little bit terrified and a little bit in love with the concept of "I'll be your worst enemey, but also your best friend." At least, that's what I thought of the phone call at the end of 23. I don't think their ties can be cut as completely as Lelouch says he wants them to be. The pieces will be left there, and if that much is acknowledged, I'll be happy. ...I have such a weakness for friendships like thia, wah.

XD! I like Suzaku mostly because he's not your typical mecha hero. He seems like it at first. I thought that it was awesome that Lelouch was the main character, but Suzaku was totally the type of hero a mecha series would have. The moment I started to get bored with Suzaku, his killing of his father was revealed and omgwtf. That boy is just as screwed up as Lelouch is. I love it.

[infected-wound.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Yum for self-hate. x.x

That "I'll be your worst enemy, but also your best friend" is such a wonderful concept. I love seeing it exploited. Seeing that friendship tested... but not broken. Though I doubt Geass would keep that friendship hanging...

XD! You say it omg! -_- And here everyone says he's your typical mecha hero! GAH! Suzaku makes me squee ~ his reasoning, wah~ It reminds me of Suikoden II's Jowy... but, like, with the Hero's character. X3

[sapphynashi.livejournal.com]

;o; Suikoden love! Gah, that one in particular is my favorite because of the best friends theme.

XD I think that Suzaku's reasoning is flawed as all hell, but that's part of why he's really interesting. Sure, he gets on his soapbox, but it's selfishness masquerading as selflessness. His "if you don't follow the rules, it's just murder" is a good example. He's been a stickler for doing things the 'right' way as if that will justify or redeem the act of killing his father. He's into the righteousness thing for the sake of his own peace of mind. We don't get to see things from his POV as much as we do from Lelouch's though, so I'm not sure how disillusioned Suzaku's become lately. But even if he breaks down some of his walls, he seems to simultaneously build new ones. ._.

Guh, I ramble too much. XD;

[infected-wound.livejournal.com]

OMG! Suikoden l-- I wonder if I've seen you somewhere before. T_T *stares hard* ANYWAY ~

My Suikoden II fangirling allows me to appreciate Code Geass all the more. For one, Lelouch and Suzaku remind me of a skewered version of Riou and Jowy. Suzaku has Jowy's 'character and ideals' but Riou's kindness and tenkai-omg-heroness, while, I guess Lelouch has Riou's path but with twice Jowy's ruthlessness. Because Jowy is a wimp. Xd j/k The fact that Suzaku killed his daddy to not prolong the war makes me squee best. Whee!

I actually wonder what Suzaku's reasons were for killing his father. I read it somewhere before; it's just... wow, what did Suzaku eat for dinner to get it into his cute head that he needs to kill his daddy?

He's probably not disillusioned... I mean, probably, the reason Suzaku spouts all that wonderful ideals is to make sure... well, to try and make sure people don't do what he did... maybe? His own speshul way of atoning...

Gah. Not making much sense. Must not play 'Sadame' while reading stuff like this. Viva best friends fighting to death >_>;

[sapphynashi.livejournal.com]

Aah, I doubt it. XD This is one of the rare times I come out of hiding in a fandom. But yeees, Suikoden II was the first of the series I played. It was years ago though and I sort of stupidly gave my game away to a friend when she moved. XD;; *misses it*

Ahahaha, Lelouch is like Jowy's ruthlessness x 1000 with more psychosis thrown in. Also, Riou and Jowy were more fated to fight each other. I get less of the 'destiny' vibe with Lelouch and Suzaku, which makes it so much harder on me. @_@ It's their different choices and vast differences in character that have put them at odds. It's more... I don't know... Gritty? Than the sleek 'our lives have been structured for us' theme that happens so often.

XD Proof that Suzaku's as messed in the head as Lelouch, just not as blatantly. It has to take some awful strong disturbance of mind and interesting personality to just go at your dad like that as a mere child. Makes me wonder what their relationship was like and whether that had something to do with it. It must have been difficult, because killing a loving parent is a whole new kind of Crazy that I don't think applies here.

[infected-wound.livejournal.com]

D; Suikooodeen II ~

Possibly ~ but at the same time, I think for Jowy and Riou, they could have ignored the destiny part - overcomed it - but Jowy wanted to use that as his reason for having to fight with Riou so in essence, he allowed it to go through. For me, Jowy made his choices based on that belief and his ideals - so I definitely see the parallels ~ And Lelouch. Wah. The more I watch Code Geass, the more I am actually thankful Jowy and Riou didn't have to go that far. Of course, I wonder, if put in the same situation Jowy was put in when Shu pulled his wild card (aka, Pilika) just when Jowy was about to kill everyone in that peace conference - what would Lelouch do? I actually expect him to not do what Jowy did (chicken out) but... eh, that would push him deeper into the dark side ~

Who knows! I was thinking Suzaku's upbringing may have been part of that decision... Maybe his parents instilled the whole ' you must stand by your beliefs no matter what ' thinking in him. Possibly, before that, Suzaku himself may have believed in the whole ' the ends justify the means' mindset and because of that event, decided it was a bunch of crap.

[sapphynashi.livejournal.com]

Man, I don't even remember that. XD *totally needs to find another copy of the game* But yeah, Lelouch has had many chances to back out of this, but he's just plowed on ahead. I can't see him stepping down at all at this point.

:o That's a good point about what Suzaku might have believed in back then. I kind of wish we knew more about what happened on his end, particularly in the gaps - before he met Lelouch and after they were separated.

[infected-wound.livejournal.com]

:( Yeah. I want more Suzaku-fleshing out. Then MAYBE he'll get more sympathizers D;

*burnt Suikoden II* >_> Oh, happiness, living in China ~ Then ~

[telepathic.livejournal.com]

That boy is just as screwed up as Lelouch is.
LOL

[zalem.livejournal.com]

Eh? What does liking Suzaku have to do with GS? Not the Suzaku=Kira thing again...because I actually adore Kira, but I've been annoyed with Suzaku for the longest time. Of course lately I think he's actually been tolerable...hasn't been as preachy as he usually is. And one good thing about him going on the revenge path....no more self-righteous speeches. Thank god! Of course, the bad thing about him going on the revenge path is that he wants to kill Lulu. >_< So maybe I'd rather the speeches afterall...at least he was still Lulu's friend back then. *sighs*

[infected-wound.livejournal.com]

Well, because everyone talks about how Suzaku is just like Kira OMG! X3 And since I've never seen Gundam Seed... I can't say anything about that.

I find Suzaku speeches adorable, because he's a hypocrite and he wants to believe in what he says, knowing what he did... and I like that. It's kind of human? X3

I think... it's possible that he just realized he doesn't have anything to live for now but revenge. I've been reading the discussions a bit for a while now and... he doesn't really have anything to go back to. For one, he's associated with Euphemia, as her knight... no way he can be part of the Japanese's lives again -_-

[zalem.livejournal.com]

It's bad for Suzaku no matter what. Even if he does live at the end of all this, what will he live for? If he kills Lelouch, what then? He'll have gotten his revenge for Euphie, but he'll have killed his best friend. And I think that WILL hit him after the act is done. No matter how much he supposedly "hates" Lelouch if he kills him it will hurt him deeply emotionally afterwards. He'll just be even more of a mess then he already is.

Both these boys are just a mess. ;-;

[infected-wound.livejournal.com]

Yeah. The Britannians will never accept him, the Japanese too. He's caught between a rock and a hard place. He'll probably die... then again, I was reminded of his Geass order when I read this comment at the animesuki thread. Waah.

At least Lelouch's plans are moving. Suzaku is... powerless and unable to really do anything.

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

I don't know that the Brittanians won't accept him altoghether...Lloyd and Cecile already have.

[zalem.livejournal.com]

Oh I'm not saying he isn't bringing it on himself. Though some of his choices....well he didn't have much of a choice to begin with. The geass going crazy wasn't something he expected and he pretty much had to kill Euphie.

But still he did make the choice to become Zero to begin with and by making such a choice he has to bear with the responsibility of all his actions. If he was just living quietly with Nunnally and Zero didn't exist, even if geass did go wonky all this mess wouldn't have happened. Still I feel awful for him. He was about to come to an agreement with Euphie (actually he DID come to an agreement), but then all hell broke loose. Now he's on a path he can't really back out of. So while I expect him to pay for his sins in the end (to die basically), I still hope it's not in a broken and pathetic manner like with Light.

I'd love to see a reconciliation at the end too. But I just don't see now it's possible. ;-;

[infected-wound.livejournal.com]

Well, being optimistic? I think a reconciliation is possible... but just, not under a full happy ending. I seriously see them reconciling after all of this is over and one, if not both of them, are drowning in their own blood. It's just more beautiful that way, and kinder. It's the only way they can end in a 'good' note without time having them dredge up all those old grudges...

I don't think he'll end up like Light though. What happened to Light was.. just.. ((overkill)) *snerk*. And as a character, I don't see Lelouch kicking the bucket like that... based on what he's done. He'll die, but... it won't be so pathetic. Hee.

They could always just wipe his memory... :( Man. MemoryWipe!Light makes me sad :(

*kicks Lelouch* *sighs* I normally like characters like him... but... at the same time, seeing him take advantage of such situations make me go D;