Emperor pulling the strings?

[meijioro.livejournal.com]

Okay I've been starting to form this huge theory of who and why Marianne was killed. There are some spoilers up to episode 19 and also possible future spoilers so don't read if you don't want to be spoiled.

So lets start with the suspected culprit. The Emperor. Here's what we know so far about him:

1. He believes in survival of the fittest
2. He encourages fights within the royal family
3. Only the strongest of the children will become the successor to the throne

Here's what I think. I think that is that even though he all but said to Lelouch that he was weak trash, he in fact saw alot of potential in him. In the "History of the Knightmare Frame" we know that Marianne was a knight and the first pilot for the prototype so he married her believing that he would get a strong offspring from the union. What he didn't count on was all his children were on very friendly terms with each other which goes against #2.

Evidence:
1) We have seen that Clovis adored the family since he painted a family portrait and also build the villa modeling it after Marianne's
2) Euphemia and Cornelia were talking very kindly about Lulu
3) Euphemia and Lulu's family was very close from the flash back and how Lelouch treated Euphemia very kindly and even called her "Euphie"
4) Euphemia stated that Cornelia greatly admired Marianne and was investigating her death

This brings me to my next point. Marianne needed to be killed because she was becoming a hinderence. As stated before, Cornelia admired her so my thought was that she was very much loved by the majority of the children. She comes from a commoner and knight background so she must have more "equality" and "justice" type thoughts and ideals and she was feeding it to the children especially to Lelouch and Nanaly as can be seen from Lelouch's words and actions in the series and also in the picture story when Lelouch educated Suzaku that Japan and Britanna were the same in that they bully weaker countries. What 10 year old has that big of a thought process unless some one taught him that?

The emperor knew that Lelouch was a very bright child a would probably be another Schneizel (spoilers say he's a cold-blooded strategist) but Marianne was going into dangerous territory that undermines his beliefs so what should he do? Kill the one person that was the glue of children, Marianne. Once she was out of the way everything fell apart. Nanaly was in the hospital and Lelouch distrusted everyone in the royal family even the siblings he was once very close to. The emperor then calls Lelouch's entire family pretty much trash that he doesn't need anymore and throws them out of the country. He did this because Lelouch still retained Marianne's ideals and renouced his title since he was so disgusted with the royal family squabbles and needed him to start hating him more. So they are exiled to Japan to be used as diplomatic hostages but attacks anyways as to tell Lelouch that I don't care if you died. Why all this? To make Lelouch crazy with revenge on his mind.

In another spoiler for the novel, it was said that Nanaly was supposed to be killed also in Japan. Why is it that the only targets for death is Nanaly and Marianne and never Lelouch? He was the one with the bright mind and future and was the main rival for the throne so it couldn't be one of the children. The emperor wanted Lelouch become comepletely cold-blooded like his other hopeful successor Schneizel. He wasn't content with just one child that didn't really need to work for the throne but wanted two of his best to duke EXTRA HARD it out to get the best results. So his ultimate goal? Lelouch v. Schneizl in the untimate fight for Britanna (even though Lelouch wants to destroy it).

I know what you all are thinking. Why such elaborate plans? How could he have known that it would all turn out like this? Well, spoilers say that Lelouch and the Emperor and very much alike in the fact that they are great strategist. We've seen what Lelouch can do with that brain of his, think what the Emperor can do?

There are little things that are more predictable to be able to control outcomes of stratgies such as Lelouch was his son so he must have known at least a little bit of his character and how he would react. Kind of how Lelouch knew Cornellia and Euphemia would react from their past actions from childhood in the hoteljack. Also Lelouch's need for revenge was another factor. Revenge is a very powerful tool to make a person want to obtain power and strength. And it's alot more predicitable of how a person would act when pushed. Not only that but rumored spoilers say that the Emperor in fact knows that Zero = Lelouch. In the end, the Emperor has a grand plan in mind and it also has something to do with geass and his kids don't even know what his plans are.

My personal thought is that if my theory was true then it would be a HUGE plot twist. Not only that the sibilngs Lelouch thought were the murders are in fact inocent but up til now he thinks that he was acting of his own accord and make his own future instead of being used as a puppet by others. It would be ironic that the freedom to choose one's own destiny that he craved so much was in fact carefully planned by someone he hates the most in the world.

That's my take on it. What's yours?

Comments

[x-reggg.livejournal.com]

the tagg D:

[mitzrael.livejournal.com]

well it's a nice theory and in fact I agree with most of it, though it is unsure yet to confirm anything but they're too many hints that can't be overlooked. Like the Ragnarok event, the fact that Schneizel has the knowledge of Geass and related culture or at least is studying it ( plus was the man involved behind all those experiments while Clovis was like a "handful patrner" 'til Lulu killed him ^^U.
The why C.C is seen watching over Lelouch when he was in Japan with Suzaku.
And why the heck the Britannia logo looks that much like a geass sign + sword in the middle....looks like a trident but I'm quite it's not. After all C.C call the geass : power of the king, if we're going to analyse Britannia history it's clear they refer to the Arthurian legend and therefore a certain well known sword is involved.. I'm going far away from the main point XD, but what I'm trying to say is that Geass/Ragnarok/britannia/etc.., everything is linked somehow and I'm sure there's at least a couple of people that are well aware of what is going on.
Plus if we're talking about Sunrise *laugh* they love twisted destiny plots where the protagonist & co. feel like they have their lifes in their hands until the final boss appears and smash their perfect reality into pieces, anyway each way or another it's exciting *sparkles*

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

My only thought about CC is that maybe she intended to Geass Lelouch when he was a child, when she first saw him, but was then taken by Brittania (as she clearly was at some point); she took Mao when he was a little child so I don't see any particular reason why she wouldn't have taken Lelouch then, unless she couldn't.

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

I hadn't seen that Britannian logo yet, but I'm not surprised, as I'd been theorizing for a few episodes that the Geass (and possibly C.C. herself in the guise of the Lady of the Lake) was intertwined with Britannian history as far back as King Arthur.

[psych-ten-chan.livejournal.com]

Pretty elaborate theory. And I wouldn't be surprised if it was true. The emperor does appear to be that much of an a**. Could he have pulled the strings to kill Marianne? Possibly. But I feel that Sunrise will take a different path and show that the Emperor loved Marianne or something. And that her death was devised by someone else. I mean, it would be too predictable or simple if the Emperor is the only truly evil person in Geass. If there's something I've learned in this series, its that things aren't just black or white. There are millions of shades in between. The characters aren't completely good nor evil. Kinda off topic though, I find it kinda ironic that Lelouch, who hates his father so much, subscribes more or less to the same beliefs. The whole Darwinian mentality runs through Lulu the most out of the Britannian children.

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

I have always thought the Emperor would be secretly very proud of his little Lelouch. He's just like his daddy, what more could a Father hope for. And of course that would make Lelouch freak out more than anything. lol.

[defade.livejournal.com]

Your theory is close to mine - after the Emperor knows that Lulu=Zero and that he got Geass from CC unconfirmed spoiler came out, I thought that maybe when the spotlight is focused on Schneziel and everyone saw the potential for him to become a great ruler, the Emperor saw something in Lelouch that convinced him that Lelouch can also become just as great, and maybe even greater. He wanted to fully explore Lelouch's potential, but Lulu's just accepting and going along with all those political conflicts and the emperor decided he should pull some strings, which led to the assasination of Marianne. The emperor is certainly more than a trapezium organ.

But still, I would find it rather cliche and disappointing if the final showdown between Lelouch and the emperor turns out to be like this:

Lelouch: Why did you kill my mother?
Emperor: To give you a reason to fight.

[tatooine.livejournal.com]

I'm still leaving the "Schnizzzzzzztoolazytospellcorrectly could be evil" thing open, personally. Sure, he seems like a sweetheart, but Lelouch can do that, too.

[ryans-cupcake.livejournal.com]

thats incredibly smart... >>; I never thought about it... the subject of Lulu's mum's death seems to be his drive for his entire plot, but it has hardly been mentioned at all this entire season, I remember in one of the later eps I saw a picture of his dead mum and I went "Oh Yeah thats why he did this!" Which is why I kinda formulated my incy wincy speculation that if there is going to be 2 season of Code Geass that it'd go like this:
Season 1 - Downfall of Britania
Season 2 - completing the contract with C.C./ Finding his mothers murderer.
I've always just thought that the people who killed Lulu's mummy wasn't part or had anything to do with Britania, I kinda thought it might've been someone from C.C.'s people... I'm not sure why though >>;

[black-rose.livejournal.com]

Well. I have a theory about who killed her, but...I don't know that anyone wants to hear it. I originally thought the emperor was the most likely suspect, but then after reading someone's idea on one of the anime blogs about how ironic it would be for the emperor to have killed his wife...I no longer think it makes sense.

My reasoning why is that if the Emperor is a man who believes in strength/survival of the fittest and all that (and thanks for the info about Marianne being a knight, I didn't know that ^__^) doesn't having "terrorists" break into his home/palace/mansion/chateau/property of some sort and murder his wife - doesn't that make him look weak / like he has a weakness? Now. PERHAPS. Perhaps if the supposed culprit was caught and severely punished, it wouldn't demonstrate weakness. But, the culprit hasn't been caught and punished. Therefore, it looks like he's weak enough that he couldn't even protect his own wife.

I *DO* think there's a puppetmaster, though. And I've had thoughts for the last couple of weeks that there's a greater chess match in play. And there are 2 players behind the board. 1 is the Emperor. And the other isn't Lelouch.

Coincidentally, I noticed that the story relationship chart has been updated and the person who I think is behind Marianne's death is now on it.

~Rose

[ryans-cupcake.livejournal.com]

Marianne's murderer = Arthur. Right?
>>; well who do you think is behind Marianne's death?

[black-rose.livejournal.com]

Kirihara. I don't trust the evil old guy. I think he wanted Zero to off the Japanese Liberation Front after the Narita battle. And I think he had an ulterior motive in concealing the murder of the Prime Minister.

^___^

PS - I don't trust Arthur, either. ^__~

[worldserpent.livejournal.com]

I agree. Right now, it seems as if this is the theory that the anime wants you to think of, that the emperor killed Marianne, because he appears to be the most plausible suspect. But, wouldn't they want to surprise us and have a surprise culprit? Right now the emperor is so evil that it wouldn't shock us at all, with his survival of the fittest-ism, that he was the one behind the assassination of Marianne, in order to make Lelouch a good successor.

Also, I agree with your point about the assassination of Marianne making the emperor look weak. Allowing one of your wives to be just shot down in her own home like that seems to make Britannia weak... Wouldn't it be just as sensible for him to create some pretext to execute Marianne and exile Lelouch, if he wanted Lelouch to hate him? That would certainly push Lelouch towards revenge. Also, if he wants Lelouch to be his successor, though... right now Lelouch wants to *destroy Britannia,* not *become emperor.* Wouldn't it indeed be counterproductive if Lelouch wins and destroys the empire?

Eh, my crackpot theory right now is that the old guy who is financing the rebellion had a hand in Marianne's death, and there was more to what he said about the "seed."

? Who do you think the killer is?

[black-rose.livejournal.com]

Wouldn't it be just as sensible for him to create some pretext to execute Marianne and exile Lelouch, if he wanted Lelouch to hate him?

Exactly my train of thought. Considering the great 'emperors' - and we got just a taste of the Britannian royal history in one of the translated dvd extras - considering the great kings and emperors in history (said tongue in cheek) never seemed to have problems executing their wives, it seems unlikely that the emperor would stage a terrorist attack to kill his wife, which in my opinion, makes him/Britannia look weak, when he could just go: Off with her head. And execute her.

Eh, my crackpot theory right now is that the old guy who is financing the rebellion had a hand in Marianne's death, and there was more to what he said about the "seed."

I think it's Kirihara, as well. And the relationship chart on the site has added him and his crazy-looking self.

There's a reason he had the history he did. He's tied to covering up the murder of Prime Minister Kurugi, he's characterized as someone who pretends to bow down to power while secretly plotting to overthrow that power. He's tied to the sakuradite mining...

If he was that close to Kururugi as well, isn't it possible the Emperor was told (prior to the invasion of Japan) that his children had been killed? Thus the vengeful desire to stomp Japan into the ground instead of surgically strike and replace the government in charge of the Sakuradite - and why bother to send children as hostages in the first place when it's supposed to be the sign of a 'truce' if there was no intention of honoring it?

Anyway. I'm not expecting any of my theories to pan out as I don't wish to be disappointed. But, I think it would be a really fun twist.

~Rose

PS - I'm glad I'm not the only one who suspects Kirihara. :D

[worldserpent.livejournal.com]

Yep, uh.... the Britannian royal family is not the same house as the Tudors, but it simply seems to me to make more sense that the emperor would execute Marianne if he was so annoyed with her.

Heh, I see. I am also a bit confused about how and when the Imperial family learned that Lelouch was dead. At some points I had thought that Lelouch faked his own death, and his sisters, but it also might be that it was sort of a spur of the moment thing. I'm also a bit curious about the Ashford House's involvement in this whole thing. Certainly they must be a bit suspicious about all the money that Lelouch is spending?

[black-rose.livejournal.com]

Well, the Britannian royal family, according to the history that was translated from the first dvd, is not the same house as the Tudors, they were related to the Celtic-British 'tribes' which had to give way to the English with the ascension of the Tudors in the 13th century.

However. I guess what I was referring to wasn't just Henry the 8th, but Charles the 1st who was executed by Cromwell. Mary Queen of Scots was executed...Greater than England, we had the French Revolution in which the people executed the king and queen of France. Plenty of executions going on. I'm sure the king could have had Marianne tried and convicted of something and then executed instead of having her assasinated and making it look like a terrorist attack.

I am also a bit confused about how and when the Imperial family learned that Lelouch was dead. At some points I had thought that Lelouch faked his own death, and his sisters, but it also might be that it was sort of a spur of the moment thing.

Well, on one of the blogs, someone explained the practice of exchanging children as hostages in order to declare a truce/peace treaty between monarchs (governments), therefore that's why Lelouch and Nunally were sent to Japan. As 'hostages' in a truce between Japan and Britannia. What was alleged by the poster (and makes some sense as to why Lelouch would be PISSED) is that when Britannia invaded, it was basically violating the terms of the truce/treaty and therefore declaring that the king didn't care whether his children - serving as hostages - were killed.

Faking his own death, I think, would be very very bad for political relations that would involve daddy dearest having to take revenge for his childrens' deaths. But, considering how he's berated Suzaku for being the one to force Japan to kneel before Britannia, maybe that's exactly what Lelouch did instead. If he faked his death and brought the wrath of his father on Japan before Suzaku killed his father, well, it'd be just fitting, wouldn't it? O_o

The only things we know about Ashford is that they took Lelouch in and know he's a prince of the blood but are hiding/shielding him. That for whatever reason, they're considered 'fallen from grace', according to Milly's conversation with Lloyd. I've also read that in the picture drama 2, Milly's grandfather and Nina's worked together developing the Knightmare Frames. That something happened (I don't recall...*sigh* I'll go look it up)...

"When Milly reveals that the company went bankrupt because of the research costs, Nina feels that it was her grandfather’s fault. Milly, however, says that it was because of her own grandfather’s extravagance in throwing parties. In the end, he came over to Japan and survived by running this school thanks to personal connections."

That's all I've got on the Ashfords. ^___^

~Rose

[worldserpent.livejournal.com]

Yep, although in the French Revolution, it wasn't the King, it was the people.

Eh, I meant that after Britannia attacked Japan, in the chaos, people lost track of Lelouch and Nannali, and that's when Lelouch took the opportunity (did he himself decide to hide out? Or was it the Ashford family who suggested it?) to pretend that they had died by accident in the attacks. So, their 'deaths' may have happened after the attack, not before.

Ah, thanks for the info. (uh, where's that from?)

BTW, I have some Geass discussions going on my journal that you might be interested in. It seems that there are many people interested in discussing this series.

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

I think the Emperor likely expects everyone to look after themselves. He doesn't strike me as much of a 'babysitter' type. He has no intention of protecting anyone, not his wives, not his children; they can look after themseleves, and if they fail, it is no reflection on him in fact; it is their own weakness.

I don't think it makes the Emperor look weak; it makes Marianne look weak.

[black-rose.livejournal.com]

I agree with the point about not being anyone's babysitter, however, I disagree that it would make Marianne look weak. Marianne's dead, so it doesn't reflect on her at all. Besides, we saw him having a talk with his dead son Clovis in the episode with the funeral, so it's not that the man is completely devoid of feeling. I think that as we see that his children are not all heartless, neither is the man that gave them half their genes and has paid for all his children to eat, be well-clothed (minus Euphie's warrioress outfit, but I guess he can't make sure they have taste), be educated, have roofs over their heads...

I believe he is a man who believes he must APPEAR strong even when as every human being, he experiences moments of weakness. And I think that he considers the attack as making him appear weak. If he didn't, it wouldn't have been such a sore spot when Lelouch poked at it as a child. He would have sent the spoiled prince to his room for wasting his time, not been completely outraged.

I also think that despite Lelouch's utter horror that I should type these words - Lelouch is probably the one most like his father. Considering how many wives the man had, he's probably got Lelouch's gentle manner towards women as well.

Tis food for thought, anyway.

~Rose

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

It reflects on Marianne in that she didn't prove savvy enough to protect herself, or rather to ensure that she had adequate security, while holding a position which made her an obvious target for dissidents or rivals of all kinds. She can't have been unaware of her unpopularity and was a Knight after all; the Emperor must have felt that she was a woman who didn't need protecting by others.

I think he was so mad at Lelouch because Lelouch was a cheeky little so-and-so for speaking to his Emperor in such a way in court, Father or not.

Lol, I have often thought Lelouch is very like his Father and Father would be very proud. The Emperor does seem to treat women well, or at the very least, is accepting of intelligence and potential in anyone equally; I don't know about his relationship with his wives (though he seems to have enough) but he's overseen the raising of at least two independant powerful Princesses.

[ryoku-chan.livejournal.com]

Wonderful theory!

[verity-isle.livejournal.com]

On Stage 0 : It seems to be its own canon. Plus, Genbu said the order to kill LL and Nanaly didn't come from their father...I have no idea why he chose to kill her and not LL (he said he's not evil enough to kill both of them) but LL would be better as a bargaining chip, I suppose.

Emperor = Killer floated in my mind, but it's not the theory I adhere to at the moment. It doesn't answer the question of "Why Japan", for one thing. The Emperor would be happy to know Lelouch = Zero because, dang, his son has just upgraded from a pawn to [insert powerful chess piece here], but that's a bit of a risky, somewhat overly complicated plan. There is really no guarantee that they wouldn't be used against him, and I doubt even the Emperor expects 10-year-olds to prevail against those conditions. It would be just as easy to keep him and foment hatred, if that's what the Emperor ultimately wants.

I think the Emperor is a puppeteer in all this to some degree, and probably has more hand in LL's current events than he knows, and Lelouch is still really a pawn in someone's chess game. But him = Emperor? Not really.

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

I think the Emperor is more involved with CC and her situation in some way than directly with Lelouch's current situation.

[black-rose.livejournal.com]

I do agree with that. I'm not sure what that tie is, but it seems to be coming to the forefront with the recent episodes...

I prefer the political manuevering, though, to magic spells.

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the CC plot does bring an almost occult strain of some kind to the plot; I am interested in it though. I am curious about how much the Emperor knows (and how much his children know). After all, they had hold of her for some time and photographs of her and documents etc.

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

I have to admit that my theory (and I'm almost surely waaaay off as no hints have been made, but this is my fandom story at the moment) is that it was another wife of the Emperor, or enemies/detractors of her lesser family who assassinated Marianne.

I think as the Emperor is having babies with her and she's a strong woman holding her own (according to his doctrine of the survival of the fittest), I am not sure he's got a motive.

Deep down, he may have been very disappointed and saddened by her death; after all, she was not an apparently popular social match, but he did marry her anyway. However, he believes that the strong will survive, and she didn't survive, and that's the sad end of it.

Lelouch's fate was determined by his reaction. I doubt the Emperor does childcare and wouldn't be likely to be swayed by his son's young age. And we don't know anything about what he he might have had to go through to get to where he is, factors that might influence his expectations for others coping levels.

The Royal children don't really have a motive to kill her either; they seem to have loved her (Cornelia's inspiration to get into a Knightmare Frame?), and even if they didn't, she's not their competition; her own offspring are. So I could see the older ones attempting to take out Lelouch and Nunally, but why her?

However, we do know she wasn't popular with the court because of her family status, and that the Emperor apparently has more than one wife. I just think there might be better candidates for assassin than the Emperor or his children.

But that's just me, lol. I guess all will be revealed in time; the plot is bound to thicken further before the truth is revealed. XD

[ashura-sama.livejournal.com]

We still don't know anything about Schneizel's background, but if Euphemia wasn't lying when she said that Cornelia had been investigating Marianne's death, what Clovis probably meant back when Lelouch killed him is that Cornelia and Schneizel had been trying to find the culprit as well. Would Schneizel do this just because Cornelia talked him into it? I think not. Maybe Schneizel was also close to the other children. If meijioro's theory is correct, then all the more reason to kill Marianne.

On a side note, I found it pretty interesting that Schneizel's gesture at the end of Stage 18 was the exact same as Lelouch's.