[Preview] Animage?

[nokiirat.livejournal.com]

Kanameclan's blog has a preview of a lovely new illustration of Lelouch. I think it's from Newtype 9, but I'm not sure From Prince Animage Summer?

Comments

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Well, the creators have confirmed Lelouch's virginity in the past, comparing him with the more experienced Suzaku and I doubt there was much time for that to change in R2.

[snowdevil-crow.livejournal.com]

You mean CC and Suzaku weren't getting up to all kinds of kinky things with him behind the scenes in the last couple of episodes? I am disappoint.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

You make a good point. Maybe not the entirety of R2. >>

[libekory.livejournal.com]

No, they confirmed that he died a virgin, so -- all the way through R2.

:(

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Well, my answer was really only tongue in cheek since it's more fun that way. |D;;

[megalomaniageek.livejournal.com]

I'm not surprised about Lelouch, although I am a little surprised about Suzaku considering his wide-eyed innocent character in R1 (and I imagine the mourning over Euphemia kept him away from anybody else after R1).

beware: tl;dr and overthinking follows.

[libekory.livejournal.com]

You mean the wide-eyed innocence he evinced when he arrested the completely-naked Kallen on Kamine Island? On the DVDs, where it's uncensored, he's getting kind of a face-full of jiggle when he pins her down, and he doesn't even glance, let alone turn red or anything. (Compare and contrast with: Ougi and Viletta.) On the commentary track, I don't remember the exact wording, but the voice actors observe that he's really keeping his cool and ask Taniguchi and Oukouchi how far Suzaku's "been"; they confirmed he was experienced, but wouldn't specify.

(And sure, Kallen goes right for a knife when she notices Suzaku, but even before it was a combat situation, Suzaku didn't show any embarrassment when he first saw her bathing naked -- or hesitate to call out to her; he pretty clearly thinks it's no big deal.)

Meanwhile, when he trips and falls on top of Shirley, even fully clothed, Suzaku does do a tiny blush; I figure the discrepancy is because Shirley is flustered, and her fluster makes Suzaku fluster. If you look carefully, you can tell that Shirley's eyes are wobbling, the universal anime symbol for a racing heart/emotional moment, and Suzaku's aren't.

Re: beware: tl;dr and overthinking follows.

[megalomaniageek.livejournal.com]

Ah, very good point(s). It's been a while since I've seen R1 so I can't really remember a lot of little details, but I do recall thinking it odd how well he dealt with a naked opponent. Then again, I was far more occupied with face-palming over Kallen being like WHERE ARE WE OH WELL I'M GONNA GET NAKED AND TAKE A SHOWER. And then there's the fact that I thought the whole thing was just very odd and "oh hey guyz fanservice" so it didn't really activate my "let's scan this scene for clues about the characters" antennae. Also even though I have the DVDs I've never watched the commentary so I missed that explanation. As for side materials, the Suzaku from Bokura no Hibi was completely oblivious to Milly trying to seduce him until she finally just made him uncomfortable; on the other hand, one of the R1 sound episodes had him commenting on the fact that "things like this" (which either referred to dating in general or having a girl in your bedroom/bed) were "perfectly normal" for seventeen-year-olds to do.
The only romantic situation I'd seen him in was his interactions with Euphemia, so that was pretty much my only reference (although of course time constraints/time compression and their social statuses are indeed enough explanation for what I remember as a fairly chaste portrayal). What had also occurred to me was that Suzaku had been with the army since he was about ten. Of course people in the military do have sex but I've heard from a friend that it can be kind of socially difficult to have a girl at the base and I doubt the Britannian army is generous with its leave time for Numbers/Honorary Britannians.
Otherwise there is the fact that he's sort of a deconstruction of the Lawful Good (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LawfulGood) Boring Invincible Hero (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InvincibleHero?from=Main.BoringInvincibleHero) / Idiot Hero (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IdiotHero). Frequently - though by no means always - these characters are chaste, although I imagine this is more often because their target audiences are young.
I'm not saying you're wrong; I agree with you since you've made a good argument and the creators themselves have made the final statement regardless. I'm just explaining why it wasn't obvious to me. Also there's the fact (which I find rather indisputable) that Suzaku was indeed a wide-eyed and naive idealist throughout R1, even if he wasn't naive when it came to sex.

Re: beware: tl;dr and overthinking follows.

[libekory.livejournal.com]

WELL. Setting aside for a moment the dubiously-canon nature of the novels...

The way I've played Suzaku in RP is that his self-worth gives him a pretty big blind spot about women being interested in him, one that they have to overcome with a sledgehammer. This is especially true of Euphy, and would also be true with Milly.

As far as the Britannian military goes -- we don't really know what their regulations regarding women are. There clearly ARE women in the Britannian military, and the Knights of the Round at least would seem to indicate that they aren't segregated, but they're nowhere near an even distribution and we don't really know whether or how easy it is for a Private to find time for sexin'.

In my headcanon, one of the women Suzaku's had sex with is another Honorary from a different country, and they were "ships passing in the night" -- stationed in the same area, she was an older woman who approached him for a one-night stand. (If you happen to be familiar with Babylon 5 for some reason, I'm completely thinking of this one woman Garibaldi almost has sex with, Dodger.) I don't know if that mental image helps you any, but I do figure that he couldn't have done it with Britannians OR Japanese; they're all thinking of him as either a monkey or a traitor. (Especially as the former Prime Minister's son.) I figure he's had sex at least three times, to be as comfortable with the topic (as in his conversation in the drama track) as he is.

But I mean, Euphy? Noooo. He never touched her like that, IMHO. We would've seen their first kiss on screen, so there's no way they ever went past that. (And not saying it's "wrong" to ever write it, but as far as what literally happened in the space of the canon goes.) But just because he was chaste with Euphy doesn't mean he's chaste with all women, you know?

Re: beware: tl;dr and overthinking follows.

[megalomaniageek.livejournal.com]

Please do set aside the novels. :D I don't mind if somebody wants to write fanfiction/RP/etc based on that interpretation of the events and characters but I don't consider them canon the way I consider the anime canon. Anime>manga and novels IMHO.
The situation you described makes sense. The creators were intentionally vague so it's all a guessing game.
I can see the other Honorary Britannian being Japanese as well, actually, considering that her joining the Britannian military would mean that she wouldn't think of him as a traitor for doing so. But regardless of country of origin, being in a desegregated army together would make sex seem far more possible.
I don't think Suzaku had sex with Euphie in canon but I've read some good fanfiction/doujinshi/RP that used the premise so I'm definitely not opposed to it. But it kind of has to be AU, yeah. And sure, I get that he won't have treated all women the same way or always have been so shy (especially considering Euphemia is a princess) but I just meant that it's our only solid frame of reference as shown in canon.

It's actually kind of an interesting dichotomy that the writers put in there, without ever making it explicit within the show. Lelouch is supposed to be jaded, cynical, and ruthless, while at least in R1 Suzaku is naive and idealistic to a fault. One would expect the more worldly of the two to be more sexually experienced as well; instead, it's just the opposite.

Re: beware: tl;dr and overthinking follows.

[ultima-vara.livejournal.com]

I'm with megalomaniageek. I really can't see Suzaku doing anything beyond kissing a girl at the point when we meet him in R1. Which still probably makes him more experienced than Lelouch, since Lel is supposed to be an extreme romance noob, right? (At least until he and Shirley kissed)

About what libekory said concerning Suzaku's non-reaction to Kallen on Kamine Island -- Lelouch didn't react to Kallen in the shower, nor to CC in all her various states of undress throughout the series, and he wasn't experienced. So I don't think it's unreasonable to say that Suzaku isn't overly experienced either.

I feel like most of his knowledge about girls would probably come from things his military comrades told him. I feel like, since as megalomanigeek said, he's been with them since he was a kid - they probably treated him like a younger brother who they had to impart their wisdom to. Which again, would put him in a position to be more smart about such things than Lelouch, who never had anyone to tell him such things.

Re: beware: tl;dr and overthinking follows.

[libekory.livejournal.com]

Well, I have my own thoughts on Lelouch's sexuality, but the short answer is that I don't think he applies; most of the time he comes off as asexual and confused about it. (No reaction to Kallen's naked body, but he gets hella flustered and pissed off at Suzaku for tugging his skirt up half an inch during the crossdressing festival picture drama.)

Okay, except that Suzaku in R1 has no military comrades; remember, Honorary Britannian. If you pay attention to the beginning of the first episode of R1, Suzaku is in the unit their commander calls "monkeys" and is being "entrusted" to a mission that will finally earn him the right to carry a firearm. Immediately after this, Suzaku is arrested for high treason, and then he's transferred out of his unit, to work directly with Lloyd and Cecile in their special ASEEC division. We never see him work with another soldier again, except for the scene where the Black Knights are igniting the liquid Sakuradite, where Suzaku is the only one reluctant to fire on the surrendering JAL forces and his commander yells at him about it.

We've got no reason to think or assume that Suzaku has any friends in the military besides Lloyd and Cecile, and Lloyd teases Cecile for caring more about Suzaku's life than is strictly required by their interest in the Lancelot; heck, Suzaku's lack of military friends is implicitly part of the reason why he gets so emotional about having friends at Ashford. (Watch him get misty-eyed for no reason when they're all dressed up as cats for one of Milly's OTHER festivals; there are visible tears in his eyes, and Lelouch notices it, IIRC.)

But, again, this is Word of God: Taniguchi and Oukouchi confirm in the commentary track for the Kamine Island episode that Suzaku is "experienced". So there's little point in arguing with me about it. I was just offering up my own thoughts and headcanon for megalomaniageek to do with as she would.

(I'd also argue that Milly or C.C. would be a WAY better source of information on women and sex, for Lelouch, than Suzaku's hypothetical "military buddies" would be for him. Not that Lelouch wants to hear about any of that stuff from either of them.)

Re: beware: tl;dr and overthinking follows.

[ultima-vara.livejournal.com]

Oh, you're right. I'd totally forgotten about the military scenes you mentioned, since it's been quite a while since I last watched the series from start to finish. Sorry about that.

I hope I didn't come off as argumentative, since I really wasn't intending to be. And I wasn't trying to question the validity of the creators' statement. I was only trying to work out the specifics of the term "experience" as it relates to the rest of Suzaku's characterization.

Also, about Lelouch's reactions to Kallen, etc., I can say from personal experience that it's very possible to ignore the sight of an undressed person without being asexual. I worked as a theater costumer in college, meaning I helped many people dress and undress for fittings, quick changes backstage, as well as getting up close and personal to measure them for custom made costumes and such. But for everyone involved, there was never any feeling of "Oh, there's nudity here!" It was more like you didn't even see them, since you were just doing your job. I imagine it's somewhat similar to how a doctor views his or her patients.

So since Lelouch's reason for being in the bathroom with Kallen was to convince her he wasn't Zero, I think it's possible he was utilizing the same sort of professional attitude. However, despite the professionalism of the workplace, I still wouldn't want someone pulling at my skirt in public, so I understand why Lelouch wouldn't want that either.

Re: beware: tl;dr and overthinking follows.

[libekory.livejournal.com]

♥ It's okay. Sorry if I seemed short with you!

Those are all true, although I'd point out again that Lelouch isn't casual about same-sex nudity; or at least, Suzaku's lifted skirt made him very uncomfortable. But my thoughts about Lelouch are less about his reactions to "Kallen" than his reactions to "etc.", like Shirley. AND THAT IS AS MUCH AS I WILL DIVULGE ON THAT TOPIC, making bluntly dismissive statements about other people's OTPs never ends well.

Re:

[ultima-vara.livejournal.com]

Don't worry, it's cool. =)

Oh, and I realized I misread your post before - I know you were talking about how Suzaku lifted up his own skirt, but for some reason I was reading your post as saying Suzaku was lifting up Lelouch's skirt. (Even though I know that didn't happen in the sound episode, it was late at night when I read it, so my brain was a little fried! XD ) Oh well, I do get what you're saying now.

Re: beware: tl;dr and overthinking follows.

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

I am intrigued by your thoughts, and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

...No really, it's times like this I regret my lack of knowledge of Japanese. It makes me wonder what other interesting things I have missed out.

[libekory.livejournal.com]

--haha. Actually, the material I'm referring to has all been translated! The R1 box set was pretty shibby, and all the commentary tracks are on there and subtitled. ♥

*gives you a newsletter!*

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

The R1 box set was pretty shibby, and all the commentary tracks are on there and subtitled.

Ah, well there's your problem there. Australia didn't get any box set releases, and I'm not sure how many of the special features made it on the individual DVDs.

...The fact my copy is from the Friendly Neighbourhood Anime Shop of Dubious Legality doesn'y help, of course.

What other insights may be found in this newsletter, I wonder?