Official Site Update

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

Just FYI, but the Official Code Geass website has updated.

Nothing about the new Gaiden, as far as I can tell (They aren't exactly chatty on that, are they?), but there's a brief thing about that Tales of Graces game with the Geass costumes, and the Renya manga now has it's own page, with descriptions of the main characters, and summaries of the first four chapters. And pictures and stuff.

Looks like Code Geass: Renya of Darkness might be the official English version of it's title.

Comments

[rainbow-cnxn.livejournal.com]

I'm guessing you also didn't enjoy NoN's art style?

Not a criticism; the art style certainly isn't for everyone.

[archtangent.livejournal.com]

*agrees* would have been more enthusiastic on reading it if it was CLAMP.

[megalomaniageek.livejournal.com]

I don't like how any of the Geass manga look (with the possible exception of some of the anthology contributors). They're all just...bad. If anything, Renya is the least shitty-looking in my humble opinion, but it's still bad.

[megalomaniageek.livejournal.com]

If I hadn't seen a dozen doujinshika and fan-comic writers and anthology contributors do excellent Geass comics I might think that it's just because we're all used to the anime style.
Seriously, though, Majiko can't draw for shit (or, at least, couldn't for the first couple of volumes...she got better with time). It's not a stylistic preference issue as it kind of is with NoN and Renya, she just can't draw well. And while a manga won't be ruined for me by poorly drawn hands most likely, wrong expressions are the death of a visual medium. When Lelouch says he's going to destroy Britannia, he honestly looks bored. Or, um, high or something.

[snoozy.livejournal.com]

(They're aren't exactly chatty on that, are they?)
aka silent trolling you mean.

[kusaja.livejournal.com]

December seems like a pretty good time for them to stop trolling or at least shift their tactics a little bit, or so you'd think.

[snoozy.livejournal.com]

You mean, Lelouch's birthday right? Well, it would seem likely -taking in account previous events- but ehhh, seems there has been a bit of hiatus revolving the Gaiden or something.

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

Hey, so I'm not the only one who heard that rumour! The first Renya tankobon apparently also got pushed back from December.

Yes, that's what I was referring to.

[kusaja.livejournal.com]

But if there's been a delay of some sort, as you're apparently indicating, it would be reasonable to keep expectations relatively low.

In that case, would you mind elaborating on what little you've heard about the hiatus?

At the very least though, I'd think they could still afford to throw one or two rough sketches our way. That is, of course, provided the project has just been delayed but not cancelled or something.

Re:

[snoozy.livejournal.com]

I didn't indicate any kind of delay, i think that is rather obvious from the non-info. /thus why i used the word 'hiatus', prolly a bit loosely but still.

[kusaja.livejournal.com]

Thanks for clearing things up then.

Yes, in light of that it's not exactly hard to conclude there's been a delay. Looks like drakyndra did hear a rumor though.

[kusaja.livejournal.com]

It's about time they did that much.

And well, at least Renya of (the) Darkness does sound better than Renya of the Blackness.

As for the actual manga...it's admittedly too early to pass judgment on the overall product, but the currently available chapters have been something of a mixed bag so far. The premise is still being set up and, without spoiling anything in particular, the would-be antagonist has just been formally introduced.

The whole thing does feel like more or less the Code Geass equivalent of Bleach or Naruto. That's not necessarily a bad thing, I guess, but for now it's definitely trying to tell a more traditional kind of "shounen fighting" story than anything else.

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

I'm not one hundred percent on the title, since they spell "Characters" wrong on the same page, but it does sound better.

I recall an interview somewhere where Taniguchi said something about wanting to write a more shonen-style series.

But so far I'm mostly reading for the canon history/backstory (and the LOL everyone's ancestors hanging out factor)

[kusaja.livejournal.com]

Everyone does seem to have an ancestor or "Expy" of some sort...right now I'm counting three cases and seeing a few more wouldn't be out of the question.

I'm still largely unsure about how they'll manage to link this manga to the rest of the story. I guess it could work if they factor in reincarnation or something along those lines, but who knows.

Btw, I read that interview too. I believe it was part of Newtype's coverage. So far, Taniguchi has definitely fulfilled his word about that.

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

Just three? I'd think it's more. And then there's the new character in chapter 6 (http://beatarai.blog90.fc2.com/blog-entry-1974.html).

Reincarnation, ~destiny~, or just ancestors. But yeah, who knows at this point? I'm sticking with ancestors til proven otherwise, personally.

[kusaja.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm not going to argue that.

My estimate was a bit conservative on purpose, simply focusing on the more or less obvious cases because we don't really know who certain individuals (such as Renya himself) are supposed to be related to.

I hadn't seen anything from chapter 6 either, but I guess that just adds to the list. XD

[megalomaniageek.livejournal.com]

...Welp, I pretty much just gave up on Renya then and there. Naked Kaguya? Really, manga? That's what Code Geass needed, more loli fanservice?

I assume they're ancestors since the Gino-expy shares Gino's last name. But I really don't get the point... identical ancestors seem like a hold-over from TV shows where different time periods feature enough for the starring actors to be re-cast as ancestors/previous incarnations. This is drawn! Why, beyond using visuals to tell the audience "this is X's placeholder" would they have identical ancestors? I don't look that much like my mom, let alone my grandmother, or my great grandmother!

[kusaja.livejournal.com]

Your mileage may vary. I don't particularly like it but that's not exactly uncommon within the shounen genre either. Even Dragon Ball started out as an incredibly dirty manga with a lot of objectively unnecessary fanservice, to say nothing of more modern works like the previously mentioned Bleach.

Moving on...I personally prefer to see several individuals having identical ancestors instead of just a Lelouch clone walking around hundreds of years before the original series. It makes what would be a rather unreasonable exception into an almost universal rule (which can be explained away through reincarnation or some other plot device). Yes, it's not realistic at all...but why is that such a bad thing anyway? It doesn't just happen in TV shows but also in a fair number of games and more than a couple of anime and manga.

This manga also seems to be focused on the least realistic aspects of Code Geass, including the power itself, and many of the pages have dealt with fights using greater or lesser degrees of supernatural skill. Bending or breaking the rules of genetics doesn't exactly strike me as something that would be particularly out of line.

[megalomaniageek.livejournal.com]

My problem is not just fanservice in general. If C.C. or Kallen's expy showed up in that state of undress I'd probably be annoyed but not upset about it. Kaguya, OTOH, is not a sexualized character in Geass, she's a young girl. I don't particularly appreciate the change. Also, this would not at all have ruined Renya for me if I liked it otherwise, just as Code Geass' or Dragon Ball's excessive fanservice was only a minor speedbump on my road to enjoying the series. This is just the straw that broke the camel's back.

I don't like the Lelouch clone either...in fact, his upsets me the most because as of now it makes the least sense. I think identical ancestors is a stupid trope, even if it is disturbingly common, because it's ridiculously unrealistic. Now I wouldn't be so bothered if I thought there was a good reason and, like with the fanservice, I would tolerate it if I liked the series otherwise. But I suppose if in the Geass universe reincarnation works such that descendants tend to look like ancestors, there would at least be an in-universe reason that wouldn't necessarily conflict with the anime, and I could deal with that.

This manga also seems to be focused on the least realistic aspects of Code Geass, including the power itself, and many of the pages have dealt with fights using greater or lesser degrees of supernatural skill. Bending or breaking the rules of genetics doesn't exactly strike me as something that would be particularly out of line.

Oh, don't get me wrong, identical ancestors is not the biggest problem I have with this manga. I just think it's a really stupid cliche and I don't like seeing it tacked onto the Geass universe.
I think the complete focus on the least realistic part works to its detriment only because it *exaggerates* the powers shown in the anime beyond the scope of what was in the show. I don't mind them elaborating on Geass, but drawing it further and further outside the realm of believability really isn't helping.

But as I mentioned in the other comment, I could honestly and happily put up with all of this stuff if:
a. I found Renya entertaining
b. I didn't have many pre-conceived notions of canon based on the original show
And really, it's far more a than b. If something's boring, I suddenly lose all patience for stupid or unbelievable things.

[kusaja.livejournal.com]

Fair enough.

I suppose we're looking at it from slightly to moderately different angles then.

It's probably been a bit easier for me to digest Renya, at least for the time being, because I've fully accepted that it seems to be going for the more ridiculous and least realistic side of Code Geass ...but I wouldn't rule out coming to hate it or, hopefully, finding a better way to look at the manga further down the line. We'll see.

Other than pointing out that said character seems to be a little older than Kaguya herself, which may or may not matter, there's really not much else to say here.

[megalomaniageek.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I will admit that the character looks older than Kaguya maybe and, at least, doesn't have that kind of moe-loli/sexualizing-extreme-deference problem that I see going on regularly in way too much anime. So I must give it points there.

Overall it seems like the divide is that I've essentially given up on Renya (although if I hear that it gets better, I would be willing to give it another chance) but you're still waiting for it to find its feet. I don't blame you for that.

Oh and also, I apologize if I've come off harsh. I'm just really disappointed in the Code Geass manga spinoffs (with the exception of the anthologies) and sometimes end up venting about it.

[archtangent.livejournal.com]

well, it's not that late yet to dismiss the idea of the ancestor stuff but I myself don't agree on that since it's set on 2017, the year Code Geass: LotR took place. Then again, that's just me. haha.

[kusaja.livejournal.com]

Actually, the Renya manga isn't set in 2017.

That date refers to the upcoming anime, Code Geass Gaiden: Akito of the Ruined Land.

[archtangent.livejournal.com]

oops... my bad.

[biodamper.livejournal.com]

...at least Renya of (the) Darkness does sound better than Renya of the Blackness.

Pfffft. Bad fan translations strike again! :'D

[megalomaniageek.livejournal.com]

I'm trying to stick with it and give it a chance, but IMHO it has a profound case of stupid. I have nothing against shounen series, honestly, and I can even appreciate long, mindless fights if they're at least entertaining (otherwise I couldn't stand DBZ). But the story just...well, it seems to be making a lot of leaps and bounds credibility-wise and stretching suspension of disbelief as far as it can go. I'm honestly having a hard time enjoying it.

And just as I'm reading this I find out, this just in, NAKED KAGUYA EXPY. AGGHHHH.

[kusaja.livejournal.com]

It's certainly not for everyone and I don't know what will be my final evaluation when the time comes, but...I'd be hardpressed to call it more stupid or unrealistic than Dragon Ball, Saint Seiya or even Fist of the North Star. None of those stories were particularly credible or intelligent in the first place.

If Renya is trying to aim for that audience, as the evidence would indicate, the large amount of suspension of disbelief it's asking for doesn't seem to be that unprecedented or excessive. Then again, different people will always have different expectations and tolerances.

[megalomaniageek.livejournal.com]

I'd be hardpressed to call it more stupid or unrealistic than Dragon Ball
If Renya is trying to aim for that audience, as the evidence would indicate, the large amount of suspension of disbelief it's asking for doesn't seem to be that unprecedented or excessive

I feel like it's apples and oranges because this is a Code Geass series. I don't mind a shift in the tone, genre, theme, focus, etc. but they have to understand that this is Code Geass and, as something that's supposed to be canon, there are certain expectations about realism or lack thereof based on the original show. (There are also certain expectations of quality, but I'll get to that in a minute.)
I wouldn't have the same complaints if it was an original manga (which it could be if some of the names and character designs were different). For original manga my willingness to suspend disbelief is pretty generous, and my enjoyment is just based on how entertaining it is. If you bring me to an original universe and tell me "humans can turn into dragons in this manga" I'm like "cool, let's keep reading." If you show me a Code Geass manga where suddenly the Britannian characters can turn into dragons and tell me it is counted as canon then I will call shenanigans, because the Code Geass universe as set up does NOT deviate from reality in this way.

Now as for quality...if Renya was an original manga, I'd have read a few chapters and dropped it for being boring and incredibly generic. I find that what sets really popular fighting mangas apart from the unknowns is how generic everything is; even if the popular ones are cliched and generic sometimes, there is SOMETHING that hooks the audience in. Beyond the inclusion of C.C. and Lelouch I don't find that Renya has brought anything that is keeping me hooked; I find the villains incredibly bland and one-dimensional, and the heroes aren't much better. The writer has not made me care. It doesn't even have cool visuals to keep me interested at the most cosmetic level; the dumb, one-dimensional villains that Renya fights are ugly as hell, so the fights don't even look cool, which is kind of important in a mindless fighting piece if you're not going to have something deeper.

[kusaja.livejournal.com]

And yet, both seasons of the original series did include a certain number of largely unexplained supernatural incidents (immortality, teleportation, soul migration, various forms of mind and body manipulation, the ability to see into the future, metaphysical planes of existence and more) or outright physical impossibilities that, aside from the total absence of technology, aren't too far removed from what we've seen in Renya's first five chapters. Taken as a whole, Code Geass isn't a very realistic source material at all.

For a start...Suzaku himself and, to a lesser extent, Sayoko (in R2) displayed essentially superhuman levels of physical skill. A similar statement could be made about Jeremiah after he became a cyborg. If this is accepted as true, the existence of more beings capable of such displays at some point in the distant past isn't beyond the established or extrapolated limits of the Code Geass universe.

The strangest element we've seen in Renya so far is the so-called "Knightmare" and its apparent ability to fly, but I don't see why that couldn't be explained as the result some sort of supernatural influence or, say, even ancient Geass-related technology. We know so little about this part of the setting that it's practically a blank slate.

As for the matter of quality...I'd describe the manga as superficially enjoyable but admittedly unimpressive. I'm rather indifferent about the visuals. There may or may not be something deeper once the story gets a chance to develop further, but barely five (!) chapters in it's hard to tell. Everything we've seen so far counts as part of its introductory stage.

Lelouch's clone, who seems to be the main antagonist, has just entered the scene and, while I don't necessarily expect him to be as complex a character as his real or apparent descendant...he might become more interesting if and when we actually get to learn more about him and his goals.

The prologue does leave the door open to a number of "deeper" interpretations and speculations even if they're bound to remain vague as hell at this point. Yes, he's apparently in the position of being the obvious "bad guy" but his developing a certain degree of moral ambiguity as time goes on wouldn't be out of question. I don't really care about the other villains as they were simply treated as little more than disposable fodder in the first place.