Code Geass Episode 4: Discussion

[gods-debris.livejournal.com]

So... I thought yesterday was Wednesday and today was Thursday until my boyfriend came home and was totally psyched about it being Friday... to which I replied, "It's Thursday." And he rebuttaled with, "No, it's not. Don't even try." At that point I picked up my phone and turned it on so that I could see the date... sure enough, today is Friday. Talk about being completely out of it. I'm sorry, guys. :( That's my failure icon for myself.

Episode 4: その名はゼロ
"The Name is Zero"


　　
　　
　　　
　　
　　
　　
　　
　

So Suzaku is being framed and despite how much he denies the fact he had anything do with it, Britannia is making sure to make him look as guilty as possible—even offering him to be an Honorable Brittanian up until his death if he admits to the murder. Suzaku is surprisingly mellow and doesn't seem worried at all.

In this episode we have Lelouch getting his Zero outfit made and establishing his identity with Kallen's terrorist group. Obviously they aren't sure whether or not they can trust him since he isn't even willing to show them his face—but given the circumstances of who he is it's obvious as to why he cannot. Lelouch also realizes that if they want to make a difference they cannot just be terrorists, they have to have an agenda. Oogi just doesn't seem strong enough to have that agenda, so this is probably the best thing that can happen to their band of merry men.

I forgot that Suzaku still thought that Lelouch and the strange green-haired girl were dead, but wonderful Llyod came and told him the good news. I guess Suzaku might have blamed himself for their deaths if that were the case. Suzaku is also always grasping onto that hope that people will open their eyes and listen past what "big brother" tells them. Even when Lloyd tells him that no one will be on his side he says that the courtroom is the place where the truth is revealed... yeah, but if everyone is already against you going in, and if Brittania has gone out of their way to make sure your finger prints were on that gun and that the entire murder of Clovis looks like you did it, the truth revealed will evidently be the lie Brittania conjured up.

You know, for someone being in a terrorist group I'm surprised that she's still wearing her uniform. You think she'd put on civilian clothing. Not that she really went any place conspicuous, but you can never be too safe about keeping things about your identity secret. I'm also surprised that Oogi ended up going as well. Not surprised about Kallen, but Oogi was a little bit of a surprise. He seemed to question Zero the most.

Anyways, Lelouch—er, Zero—doesn't disappoint. Always dramatic with his entrances and I gotta say the whole thing about using the "gas bomb" as bait to get them to hand over Suzaku was great. Jeremiah has never seen what was on the inside—the only two people who saw were Lelouch and Suzaku, and when Suzaku tried to speak out to tell them it was a fake he was electrocuted into silence. So Zero does a wonderful job of using his power to confuse the Brittanian army with the whole "Orange" incident before using Geass on Jeremiah into letting them go without a scratch.

Lelouch's ultimate plan was to get Suzaku to join him because he remembered Suzaku's words that day when they were children, but Suzaku has decided to follow a different path. He wants to change Brittania from within and doesn't like how Zero handles things. You know, earlier Zero said not to involve the citizens, but he hypocritically involved the citizens with his little charade.

Comments

only a little spoilery

[kiraya.livejournal.com]

"And the end of his quest he knows that his father, the emperor of Britannia, waits for him. Or at least, that was what Lelouch hoped for." Interesting phrasing, there.

Suzaku's pronoun of choice while being interrogated: "jibun." And he maintains this in prison during the Lloyd conversation.

Tamaki's shouting about issuing a statement claiming responsibility for Clovis's death could be the smartest thing he says or does in the whole series. Of course, their group could've well been crushed like a bug by the Brits before Zero showed up if they had, but...

The "winners write the history" bias that shows up in the Tokyo Tower museum... I like that. It's a concept that's always interested me.

During this conversation with Diethard, it seems clear that Jeremiah really had the potential to be interesting... A shame this whole Orange thing turns him into a joke.

(I'll never be quite sure why Ougi wears that six-pointed star on his jacket. I've seen WWII-era Jewish parallels drawn there, but I'm not sure if that was deliberately intended by the creators so much for death of the author or if it's just overthinking it.)

Impassioned speeches on the proper goals of terrorism-- I'm sorry, justice. Oh Code Geass.

So Suzaku does have family on the Kururugi side left, even if he's not in contact with them... Does anyone remember if they're ever mentioned again after this?

That brief cut to Kaguya -- interesting, but why do so?

Oh lord the propaganda-spewing in this newscast is sickening.

I like that they show Lelouch is nervous about this gamble. Interesting that Kallen and Ougi were the only ones willing to risk trusting in him. And poor Kallen's scared half to death -- but since driving a junk car in that kind of situation's a lot different than piloting even an outdated Knightmare, I can hardly blame her.

It says SO MUCH about the degree of Suzaku's conditioning to and oppression by the Britannian regime that he uses "Eleven" rather than "Japanese" when wondering about Zero. And about how little he values himself that he tries to shout down the threat Zero's making. Boy needs some therapy.

(And Diethard's having his little fangasm over there, fft)

The Orange thing here is insanely risky, but well played, Lelouch. Well played.

Suzaku's pronoun of choice while discussing ideologies with Zero: "boku."

Poor Suzaku. He clings so strongly to this idea of the ends not justifying the means now, but... It'll be fun interesting to watch his downward spiral.

It intrigues me that Lelouch judged the human element perfectly with Jeremiah (the type of arrogance he knows well in nobility), but he completely missed his mark with Suzaku, who's changed so much... and all he can do is stand there and yell at him that he's being stupid over and over.

You know, I think part of what bothers Lelouch about Suzaku's situation is that between the two of them, both with little social/political clout (save Lelouch being a Britannian and thus possessing some privilege, even if only as a commoner), Suzaku has always had greater agency than Lelouch himself did (before he received Geass, at least) by virtue of his physical prowess. So to see that power offered up to a regime whose ideologies are incorrect by the one who holds it-- especially since it's Suzaku, who he formerly knew as so fierce and pro-Japan -- is really upsetting for Lelouch. And then to later see it not only offered up to that regime, but being actively used for it to block his goals -- no wonder Lelouch has such a strong reaction to discovering Suzaku is Lancelot's pilot.

Anyway. I really wonder how things might have gone had Lelouch removed the mask for Suzaku. Of course it'd be risky, with Kallen and Ougi and their group right nearby, but...

"If I'm going to die, I want to do it for everyone's sake." An incredibly selfish statement, really.

...Ending on C.C. walking into Nunnally's room in the dark is... a little creepy, actually. Especially since we last saw her dead.

Re: only a little spoilery

[spleener.livejournal.com]

That brief cut to Kaguya -- interesting, but why do so?

I feel like they planned on doing a lot more with her than they wound up doing. Which is a shame, because when she's not in ZERO-SAMA IS MY HUSBANDO mode she comes off as being smarter than the majority of the people in the Knights and would probably have a lot of sway in the organization if she wasn't both 14 and a girl.

It intrigues me that Lelouch judged the human element perfectly with Jeremiah (the type of arrogance he knows well in nobility), but he completely missed his mark with Suzaku, who's changed so much...

Lelouch's most significant weakness is that he tends to go full fucking retard when someone he cares about is involved in any way, and this is a half-decent example of that. If Suzaku was a stranger then he'd probably have been able to read him like an open book and know exactly what to say to get him to defect.

You'll note that this scenario parallels decently well to R2 episode 6 when he tries to extract Nunnaly- he assumes that she'll go along with him because the possibility that she's going back to become Viceroy of Japan because she wants do doesn't even enter his mind.

On some level he's probably aware of this, which is why he keeps his distance from the Black Knights and does the "LOLOL YOU ARE ALL MY CHESS PIECES" thing- because if he actually allows them to become his friends he wouldn't be able to think objectively about how to use them. So the only people in there who he's ever close to are Kallen (who he's okay with putting in danger because she's their best pilot and has the best robot making her pretty hard to kill) and C.C. (who can't die.) Which, of course, wind up screwing him over pretty hard when Schneizel comes around and drops all of his horrible secrets on a bunch of people who still don't entirely trust him due to the distance he keeps.

Re: only a little spoilery

[nayami.livejournal.com]

You'll note that this scenario parallels decently well to R2 episode 6 when he tries to extract Nunnaly- he assumes that she'll go along with him because the possibility that she's going back to become Viceroy of Japan because she wants do doesn't even enter his mind.

This is such a good point! It is a nice parallel.

On some level he's probably aware of this, which is why he keeps his distance from the Black Knights and does the "LOLOL YOU ARE ALL MY CHESS PIECES" thing- because if he actually allows them to become his friends he wouldn't be able to think objectively about how to use them. So the only people in there who he's ever close to are Kallen (who he's okay with putting in danger because she's their best pilot and has the best robot making her pretty hard to kill) and C.C. (who can't die.) Which, of course, wind up screwing him over pretty hard when Schneizel comes around and drops all of his horrible secrets on a bunch of people who still don't entirely trust him due to the distance he keeps.

I really like this interpretation of him purposely handling the Knights the way he does because he understands his personal flaw when it comes to those important to him. It sheds a whole new light on the whole "pawns" thing that so many people judged Lelouch so cruelly for in the original run of the series, saying he didn't care. He makes himself not care and tries to make them not care for the purpose of his objectives. This is really nice!

This comment gets more spoilery

[megalomaniageek.livejournal.com]

Lelouch's most significant weakness is that he tends to go full fucking retard when someone he cares about is involved in any way

Am I a terrible person for laughing out loud at this for like a whole minute? He totally, totally does. In fact...

the only people in there who he's ever close to are Kallen (who he's okay with putting in danger because she's their best pilot and has the best robot making her pretty hard to kill)

Aaaand then she gets captured by the Chinese federation and even though he's told explicitly that he can't let his feelings get in the way and charge into a doomed rescue, he does it anyway. Because Kallen.

Agreed with nayami that it brings a whole new interesting element of him using his subordinates as chess pieces.

Re: only a little spoilery

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

You'll note that this scenario parallels decently well to R2 episode 6 when he tries to extract Nunnaly- he assumes that she'll go along with him because the possibility that she's going back to become Viceroy of Japan because she wants do doesn't even enter his mind.

One of those things that got brought up in a discussion here a while back - it's one of Lelouch's weird selfless/selfish moments, in which Lelouch will do anything to make his loved ones happy, but never really realises that they might actually want different things to him. And he takes it so personally, even though as far as they are aware, he's just a weirdo in a mask.

Re: only a little spoilery

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Tamaki's shouting about issuing a statement claiming responsibility for Clovis's death could be the smartest thing he says or does in the whole series. Of course, their group could've well been crushed like a bug by the Brits before Zero showed up if they had, but...

You're right!

(I'll never be quite sure why Ougi wears that six-pointed star on his jacket. I've seen WWII-era Jewish parallels drawn there, but I'm not sure if that was deliberately intended by the creators so much for death of the author or if it's just overthinking it.)

I've always wondered this myself.

So Suzaku does have family on the Kururugi side left, even if he's not in contact with them... Does anyone remember if they're ever mentioned again after this?

Also, a darn good question.

It intrigues me that Lelouch judged the human element perfectly with Jeremiah (the type of arrogance he knows well in nobility), but he completely missed his mark with Suzaku, who's changed so much... and all he can do is stand there and yell at him that he's being stupid over and over.

This is a huge thing with Lelouch and not being able to handle personal change because he bases so much of himself on constants. They are the only thing in his life that aren't ruled by variables. Suzaku's persona is supposed to be a constant and the one thing he could trust and rely on as a child. Losing this severely unsettles Lelouch's sense of reality. He simply cannot fathom how much Suzaku has changed, even after he learns the truth. He just things he can introduce an element to play upon the aspects of Suzaku he knows (protecting Nunnally and others).

...Ending on C.C. walking into Nunnally's room in the dark is... a little creepy, actually. Especially since we last saw her dead.

It is WAY creepy.

Re: only a little spoilery

[gods-debris.livejournal.com]

What gets me about C.C. walking into Nunnally's room is when Nunnally asks if it's Sayoko. She was able to tell it was Lelouch by the sound of his footfall, so you think she would have known it wasn't Sayoko by C.C.'s footfall. Perhaps she was just questioning it because she didn't expect to have anyone else in the house.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

Re: only a little spoilery

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I always thought that was a bit screwy. And in the sound files, she always thinks CC is a cat.

Re: only a little spoilery

[snowdevil-crow.livejournal.com]

And yet, when VV arrived, she asked if he was CC

:S

Re: only a little spoilery

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

That brief cut to Kaguya -- interesting, but why do so?

I wonder if it's connected to the thing about Suzaku's family - do we know which side they are related on?

It intrigues me that Lelouch judged the human element perfectly with Jeremiah (the type of arrogance he knows well in nobility), but he completely missed his mark with Suzaku, who's changed so much...

While part of this is, as mentioned, Lelouch getting stupid over his loved ones, I wonder if some of this is just because Lelouch can't actually comprehend some of Suzaku's underlying thought process here. For one, Lelouch is an incredibly proud person, who is unwilling to just bow his head to a regime he dislikes so much, and so he honestly can't understand how someone else could willingly do so, especially when he knows they also dislike it.

And I think part of it is that Lelouch has spent years of thinking of Britannia as this great big, solid, immovable weight, crushing down on the world. And he never even thinks that someone could think it could be changable, movable, or anything other than just a mass to be destroyed.

(I've seen it pointed out in the past that with the Geass and background, Lelouch has pretty much everything he needs to bring down Britannia from within. But he only ever sees Britannia as a beast to be fought.)

I really wonder how things might have gone had Lelouch removed the mask for Suzaku.

That's one of those fanfic AUs that I've always wanted to see, it'd be a really interesting concept for someone to work with. More original than some, anyhow.

Re: only a little spoilery

[nayami.livejournal.com]

And he never even thinks that someone could think it could be changable, movable, or anything other than just a mass to be destroyed.

(I've seen it pointed out in the past that with the Geass and background, Lelouch has pretty much everything he needs to bring down Britannia from within. But he only ever sees Britannia as a beast to be fought.)

I really like this of Lelouch seeing Britannia as more of the dragon.

Re: only a little spoilery

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

Dragon and phoenix, eh? Destruction versus rebirth.

Re: only a little spoilery

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I do love symbolism.

Re: only a little spoilery

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

The actually hilarious bit is that in the book I just finished reading, a literal dragon arranges his own assassination in order to recreate the world, at the hands of a tearful, reluctant person with a sword whom he considers a friend.

Re: only a little spoilery

[gods-debris.livejournal.com]

What book is that?

Re: only a little spoilery

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

The Last Dragonslayer, by Jasper Fforde.

Um, though I've sort of just given huge spoilers for it's ending.

Re: only a little spoilery

[megalomaniageek.livejournal.com]

So Suzaku does have family on the Kururugi side left, even if he's not in contact with them... Does anyone remember if they're ever mentioned again after this?

None except for his father and Kaguya. In one of the sound dramas there is discussion of an older woman (maternal adoptive figure is the tone I interpreted from it) who rode a motorcycle, but there's never any mention of her otherwise either. I wondered if Suzaku had siblings because he was referred to as "the eldest son of Genbu Kururugi" but if I recall correctly "eldest son" and "only son" can be the same in Japanese. The scenes in the past seem to imply he's an only child.

Re: only a little spoilery

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I thought the older woman was the one Suzaku had a crush on since he likes mature women.

Re: only a little spoilery

[snowdevil-crow.livejournal.com]

No, that was a maid at his family's shrine. Well, maybe they implied it about his guardian too, I'm not sure.


He likes older women? He and CC are made for one another, clearly ♥