Code Geass Episode 5: Discussion!

[gods-debris.livejournal.com]

Episode 5: 皇女と魔女
The Imperial Princess and the Witch










We begin by seeing Cornelia taking control of Area 18 with her army. For whatever reason I always somewhat felt that Lelouch had some sort of a similarity with her. Well, at least for this episode they were both introduced with a fiery entrance (at least Zero was shown to the public that way in the last episode). Cornelia has decided to take control of Area 11 and avenge the death of her brother, Clovis. Her goal? To find Zero!

Lelouch returns home to see a familiar face of someone whom he thought died via bullet to the brain. I guess I'd be a little surprised too. I mean, he did watch her die in front of him. There was a bullet in her head, after all. She survived and there's not even a scar to show she was ever shot. At any rate, it's nice to see that Nunnally and C.C. are getting along pleasantly—except she's under the assumption that Lelouch is marrying her. I gotta say, though, I didn't get the feeling that Nunnally really believed the breaking of that cup was legit. Unfortunately for Lelouch he doesn't get to have a lot of his questions answered by the mysterious C.C..

In other news poor Jeremiah has lost his leadership due to the whole "orange" incident. No one trusts him after he let Zero escape and even attacked his own men claiming they were disobeying his orders. For those wondering what "orange" meant, Lelouch claims it was just a casual remark that some people will want to know the meaning of and others will begin to analyze what it does mean. Suspicion. Luckily for Suzaku, due to the whole ordeal they acquitted that there was not enough evidence to charge him with the murder of Clovis, so he was found innocent! Other than that other terrorist groups are making a ruckus because of the whole Zero thing, thinking it's time to revolt; even the Japanese that Toudou is a part of wants to act now, but Toudou seems to be very patient and he wants to wait and not get caught up in the whole Zero thing.

Anyways, is it just me or is this entire anime built on lies? When Suzaku meets Euphemia for the first time one of the first thing she says to him is a lie. She's being chased by bad people? Moreover she lies about who she is—well she omits the fact that she's the princess Euphemia and just tells Suzaku that she's Eufie. However, I get that she did that so she could see who he was on a different level. For example when Suzaku stepped in when some Britannian soldiers were creating a ruckus with an Eleven. He took a lot of heat from the Britannians. Later he stepped in when there was a coup d'état against Jeremiah, which later caused Euphemia to step in and stop the fight using her royal power. Maybe it was a test for Suzaku because she knew who he was when they met, I believe. Either way, Lloyd knew the entire time, that bastard!

I gotta hand it to Lelouch, though. He put Geass on a girl to test how long Geass stays on a given person for. Every day at the same time she goes to the same spot and carves in the wall the same image. Even C.C. is impressed.

Suzaku is attending Ashford Academy! :D

Next time: 奪われた仮面
The Stolen Mask

P.S. I will be deleting previous image batches from my flickr account within the next week, save for this one.

Comments

Re: Random thoughts and some SPOILERS

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

Am I the only person who genuinely doesn't understand that ship?

Re: Random thoughts and some SPOILERS

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I love it because it's so messed-up yet beautiful and even has canon support to boot, but I can get if it's not everyone's cup of tea. Personally, I'm a trio lover. Sex for all!

Re: Random thoughts and some SPOILERS

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

It's more that I don't actually see their interactions as shippy in the slightest. (My reaction to that one line was basically, "Where the hell did that come from?")

Re: Random thoughts and some SPOILERS

[nayami.livejournal.com]

From when they were children. There's lots of evidence to support her crushing on him from childhood. And I think there's enough that, were things slightly different, they could have connected fully again. Euphie, after all, is the first person to make the Zero connection, aside from Suzaku.

Re: Random thoughts and some SPOILERS

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

The relationship chart I saw once actually implied it was the other way round - Lelouch crushed on Euphie as kids, but it was only that way.

But anyway, I can only really see it as a childhood past-tense thing. Beyond that, it just does not compute for me.

Re: Random thoughts and some SPOILERS

[nayami.livejournal.com]

So weird. Since Nunnally talks about her and Euphie vying for Lelouch's hand in marriage when they were younger. That's why she asks Euphie when they're together how she feels about him and how she feels about Suzaku? Nunnally is quite jealous of Euphie and Lelouch.

But I can understand your stance on it. I just enjoy taking it further and having my bizarre Lelouch/Suzaku/Euphie trinity. It fits well with my Lelouch/Suzaku/CC trinity.

Re: Random thoughts and some SPOILERS

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

That's why she asks Euphie when they're together how she feels about him and how she feels about Suzaku?

Well, given the next time she and Lelouch speak it's talking about how close Euphie and Suzaku are now, I can guess how that conversation went.

I could deal with that triangle better if I'd ever seen a single bit of writing that dealt with the Suzaku side of it well. Which I haven't, for the record, they always seem to push him aside.

Re: Random thoughts and some SPOILERS

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Which triangle?

Re: Random thoughts and some SPOILERS

[otakukeith.livejournal.com]

Nunnally talks about her and Euphie vying for Lelouch's hand in marriage when they were younger.

Kids say stuff like that without it meaning anything in later life. One of my cousins apparently once said she wanted to marry me and our grandad. (Yes, at the same time. LOL.)

Re: Random thoughts and some SPOILERS

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Normally, yes, this is just a cute little kid thing. But Nunnally *is* jealous in the scene and she is 14-years-old when people should have grown out of it. Also, I think there is some canon (don't quote me on this since I'm not 100% sure) of Cornelia disapproving when Euphie talks about marrying Lelouch. I think the Britannians are just culturally warped, with the closeness of all the siblings (Charles and V.V. as well.) Also, inter-familial marriage is not uncommon to European royal history. But there is also the fact that Lelouch and Nunnally's views on love itself are slightly outside of norm, with them not automatically equating it to something sexual so much as emotional. Long story short, Britannians are weird, and things they say can't always be shrugged off as one could do with other characters.

Re: Random thoughts and some SPOILERS

[megalomaniageek.livejournal.com]

That's pretty much how I see it, although I got the impression (which was discussed in another comment) that Euphie returned the crush. I don't mind their canonical relationship - a childhood, innocent crush - being in a fanfic, but I don't think anything beyond that is warranted by canon (although fanfic writers can of course deviate to the extent they want). I don't think Euphie and Lelouch are the kind of people who could overcome the boundary of being siblings, though. They're pretty principled people.

Re: Random thoughts and some SPOILERS

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I want to emphasize that my view on fanfic!Lulu/Euphie is not sex but simply love. Parsed out into trio form, it becomes Suzaku/Lelouch and Suzaku/Euphie. Pairings for me in fiction are more about the intensity of the relationship, although kissing is nice too. I mostly enjoy general snugglepiles.

Re: Random thoughts and some SPOILERS

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

That's pretty much it, really. I always interpreted the first love remark as talking about when they were kids, and from what I've seen that's basically what authorial intent was.

I also can't see Euphie cheating on Suzaku, both in terms of her principles and just that she is, genuinely, in love with him.

Re: Random thoughts and some SPOILERS

[kiraya.livejournal.com]

Some days I feel like the only person who doesn't understand, oh, Lelouch/C.C., so ymmv I guess. Subtext is weird that way.

Re: Random thoughts and some SPOILERS

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

Lelouch/C.C. is an odd ship for me because I like the way they interact more than any other pseudo-love interests of Lelouch, but I am not sure if I'd still like it if they were explicitly romantic. I just want more of their vaguely UST-filled snark and bitching.

Re: Random thoughts and some SPOILERS

[kiraya.livejournal.com]

I love the snarking and bitching, but I don't really see the UST in it at all. Unless C.C. playing it up as one more way to mock the virgin boy counts.

Re: Random thoughts and some SPOILERS

[megalomaniageek.livejournal.com]

Well that puts you in the same boat as the writers, so I can't blame you (not that I would anyway; shipping is a matter of preference and personal interpretation).
Honestly, though, I literally cannot think of a non-shippy way to interpret R2 Episode 15 ("She's my...she's my...!") as well as the end of the Mao episode where they lightly and sensuously brush fingertips. Also, when C.C. asks Lelouch to say her name "as a lover would."
It also doesn't help that "goshujinsama" is both "master" and "husband" so she's calling him her husband as well when she's mind-regressed.

Re: Random thoughts and some SPOILERS

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I adore ALL Lelouch pairings so I have no preference, aside from like Rolo but that's a weird nitpicky thing with me just not enjoying it but fully acknowledging it's totally viable. That said, I hate using any of CC's regression mentality to connect to the ship. That whole thing, while arguable in plot sense for the sake of giving the writers a benefit of a doubt, leaves a TERRIBLE taste in my mouth. And I'd rather ignore it entirely, as it pertains to their relationship.

Re: Random thoughts and some SPOILERS

[megalomaniageek.livejournal.com]

Fair enough. I'm not terribly fond of regressed!C.C./Lelouch either. The porn especially bothers me because she is mentally a child (C.C. Lemonade 2 is an exception where I just ignore it because I like the hawt drawings).
My argument for C.C./Lelouch rests 99% on their interactions and references to one-another outside of that time period, and it can rest 100% on that. I just mentioned it because I remember reading Jesus, Joy of Man's Desiring by RURU and wondering, "Why the hell is C.C. referring to Lelouch as her husband? Is this an AU where they're married? Oh, right, it means master too!"
But again, it's really mostly about stuff like the "say my name like a lover would" bit and how Lelouch responds to C.C.'s true wish of to be truly loved.

Re: Random thoughts and some SPOILERS

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, there's definitely something very powerful there. As with her being his accomplice and him promising to be a warlock if she must be a witch. I do love them so.

Re: Random thoughts and some SPOILERS

[otakukeith.livejournal.com]

C.C./Lelouch shipping talk? THIS IS RELEVANT TO MY INTERESTS.

I think the two of them are a lot alike in many ways - they both seem to regard themselves as 'fallen', for example. To be honest, Lelouch/CC is the only Lelouch ship where I can really imagine what they'd be like as an actual couple (namely, much the same as they are normally). With Shirley in particular, I just can't picture what the relationship would be like beyond the actual declaration of love - they pretty much inhabit different worlds. Which isn't to say it mightn't be interesting, but I think it could also fail horribly, and I'd have terrible trouble, say, writing it in a fanfic. (I've rarely seen it done by anyone else in a way I found satisfying.)

Re: Random thoughts and some SPOILERS

[kiraya.livejournal.com]

From what I've studied of the language, I can't really interpret ご主人様 as "husband" -- at the very least, the honorific prefix is omitted in reference to one's own husband (though historical usage may have been different; I can't make any claims there).

Also, considering the rest of C.C.'s attitude during that time... I don't know. It's painful to watch such a self-assured woman who doesn't let anyone take advantage of her sink to that level, and I'm not comfortable using that as a reason to ship them when their dynamic is usually so different.

Re: Random thoughts and some SPOILERS

[megalomaniageek.livejournal.com]

Is that so? I've never heard it without the honorific prefix without dropping the sama. I thought one would say "goshujinsama" to one's own husband, and "shujin" to others, while referring to others' husbands as "goshujinsama." It would sound weird to me to not have the "go" in the same way it would sound weird to hear "niisama."

Nayami said the same thing about the regressed!C.C. arc, and I addressed it: Fair enough. I'm not terribly fond of regressed!C.C./Lelouch either. The porn especially bothers me because she is mentally a child (C.C. Lemonade 2 is an exception where I just ignore it because I like the hawt drawings).
My argument for C.C./Lelouch rests 99% on their interactions and references to one-another outside of that time period, and it can rest 100% on that. I just mentioned it because I remember reading Jesus, Joy of Man's Desiring by RURU and wondering, "Why the hell is C.C. referring to Lelouch as her husband? Is this an AU where they're married? Oh, right, it means master too!"
But again, it's really mostly about stuff like the "say my name like a lover would" bit and how Lelouch responds to C.C.'s true wish of to be truly loved.

Re: Random thoughts and some SPOILERS

[kiraya.livejournal.com]

From what I was taught, others' husbands are ご主人 (goshujin) and your own husband is 夫 (otto), or less commonly 主人 (shujin). I learned ご主人様 as a polite way to say sir/master -- more language for use in the service industry than with your spouse. (As for the お兄様 thing, I've actually seen it used without the honorific in at least one character in another fandom.)

I was stretching things a bit with the 主人様 example. You could say it when talking about your husband, but it would probably sound kind of odd (unless you have some... interesting power dynamics going on in your relationship). 主人 would be more common, and even that less so than 夫 (which is a pretty neutral term).

The show offers subtext for just about every Lelouch pairing, really, and that to me is part of the fun of it -- nothing is outright confirmed on his side (unless him calling Euphie 初恋 counts), so as fans we're free to take a number of different interpretations of things.

Re: Random thoughts and some SPOILERS

[megalomaniageek.livejournal.com]

Ah, I probably should've mentioned that I am talking about a more old-fashioned way of speaking, in which essentially calling one's husband "master" wouldn't sound ridiculously out of date. I think "otto" is indeed a better word to use because it doesn't carry the same inherent power imbalance. And a when speaking to him a wife nowadays would probably say "anata" instead of "goshujinsama."