History, Request, Poll.

[tatooine.livejournal.com]

I've been gnawing a little on Geass's AU history, and the biggest problem I've hit is the defeat of the Romans -- probably the greatest moment of divergence from, well, the real world. Working with verity_isle's translation here, the date of that invasion is the date of the founding of the Britannian monarchy and the a.t.b. calendar (2017 years before Geass). Thing is, that invasion (Caesar's, as per the DVD extra) took place in 55 BCE, placing Geass in 2017 - 55 = ... the 1960's. While I can see how this explains Euphie's hippie skirt in episode five, I was wondering if the comm had any other ideas (ie "they probably meant one of the first century invasions").

I'm also looking to collect tidbits about historical and scientific differences -- er, stuff like "Elizabeth I had a child" (what was his name? I know someone mentioned it somewhere) and "they don't have internal combustion." So this post is also sort of a request for interviews/world-builder factoids stashed across the 'net. ♥

[Poll #964598]

EDIT: Oh, also. The "Holy" part of "Holy Britannian Empire" -- Christianity? Celtic traditions? Ego trip? World of C?

Comments

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

Maybe the 'Holy' part of the Britannian Empire comes from the tradition of Absolutist Monarchy, whereby the ruler claims his authority directly from God and is King/Emperor by the grace of God with no higher authority than he (as he is God's direct representative).

Absolutism was a popular political theory written on at length by Elizabeth I's successor James I, and it reached it's reached it's most well known expression in the 17th century in the courts of monarchs such as Louis XIV (known as an Enlightended Despot).

However, many rulers throughout many cultures in all periods of history have claimed that they rule because they are God's chosen representative, or because they are themselves Gods or are the descendants of Gods. Japan's Emperors have been no exception to this rule. Roman Emperors, for example, might undergo apotheosis, whereby they would be elevated to the status of a divinity when they died to reinforce the power of the Imperial office.

However, I don't think the Britannian Emperor has actually claimed to *be* a God. ^-^ The show isn't specific about the nature of Britannian religion and the presence of the Church (if Britannia even has an organised Church) is pretty much conspicuous by it's absence from the story.

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

It was not the Roman Empire that brought Christianity to England however; it was St Augustine! :)

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I think the Emperor is after some divine right there since Geass is supposed to be the power of the king. I also don't think that one has to believe he is a god to claim divine right. The Emperor's whole speech about the strong prevailing over the weak speaks directly to the concept of divine right. You survive because you were made to be the chosen ones.

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

Oh no; Absolute Monarchs did not claim to *be* Gods; just his direct representative on Earth.

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

Actually, the Holy Roman Empire was German. ^-^ It's beginnings can be dated to the coronation of Charlemagne in 800 and the office sort of evolved from there, in emulation of the Roman Empire of history.

My favourite Holy Roman Emperor was Charles V, unfortunate enough to hold the title when the Empire was (though him)at it's biggest and when the reformation happened.

[may-neuma.livejournal.com]

Beatles do exist in Geass World. Ougi?

~ m a y ~

[meitsu.livejournal.com]

You can't call them Germans if Germany didn't exist back then =p not as a nation, anyways.

Am I confused then? I remember some stuff about The Byzantine and the Holy Roman Empire, but...maybe I AM confused X_X...oh well, but does this matter? (I forgot what I wrote already..)

[meitsu.livejournal.com]

ARGHEAG)H#PHGAG HISTORY FREAKS!!!! *runs in rampage*

That's not what I said, though, I said that the Roman Empire (or Holy Roman EMpire...i don't know anymore, you've thoroughly confused me)spread the religion to surrounding regions, i never said Britin specifically. And what I was questioning was Britannia's ability to spread Christianity as well as the Holy Roman Empire. Afterall, it was definitely smaller in comparison (back then...using our own history as template) and in turn slower in influence.

HA! at least I got the knightmare frames stuff down! mechanics!!!=ppp *runs*

[meitsu.livejournal.com]

Fool of a took! How can you not save an icon of Pedobear =pppp

[meitsu.livejournal.com]

if he's the pope, then yes, though it's amazing that there hasn't been a successful coup (violent or nonviolent) against that authority, seeing as how the King is still the pope in Britannia, the kings must have been like, really good at controlling their empires, or something =\

[tatooine.livejournal.com]

http://pics.livejournal.com/euphiemisms/pic/00032z0r

[meitsu.livejournal.com]

OTL *worship* =pppppp lol, PedoBear is really famous, isn't it?

[x-reggg.livejournal.com]

HAHAH i love your logic ♥

[x-reggg.livejournal.com]

well, there was that bit in episode 3? that had lelouch and co in a history lesson, but i've deduced there's too many variations in the translations (trust me, i've checked this with SHS, gg AND a chinese translation) for any facts to have come...

plus, they said that elizabeth the second or something (the current queen) died in one of them. which messes up my mind even worse.

and must i say that they're using SOLAR ENERGY? when we in the 2000s don't use it to such a large scale?!? DD:

[zidane.livejournal.com]

Indeed, my brilliance is astounding!

[loqi.livejournal.com]

The son of Elizabeth would be Henry IX (mentioned in ep. 3 and again on Suzaku's textbook in ep.7). In the anime, it doesn't actually say which Elizabeth it was (in fact gg dubbed 'I' while SHS dubbed 'II'). Later evidence would show that Henry was probably the son of Elizabeth I, because in the same context of the textbook, they were talking about how England held onto absolute monarchy while other countries of Europe adapted to parliamentarization. This is very much in tune with what was happening during the English Renaissance and the time of our Elizabeth I. (The link to the full transcription of what's on Suzaku's textbook is here (http://community.livejournal.com/code_geass/40650.html).)

In ep. 12, an Elizabeth III was mentioned in relation to a Battle of Trafalgar and Edinburgh. This incident is probably the Humiliation of Edinburgh that Lelouch's teacher talked about that was on the test. It's related to the "new continent" (America?) and civil war (which is possibly the American revolution that failed in the Geass world). The mention of an Elizabeth III, doesn't really change my opinion that the mother of Henry IX is Elizabeth I (it fits so well since her dad was Henry VIII), but it does warn us to be cautious that we can't assume everything about the Geass world based on our world.

I think the 'Holy' part of the name is probably religious. Perhaps in the sense that the emperor is also the head of the Church, much like it is now in Britain. They're just more boastful about it. But I do like thomasvye's idea that it's because of Absolutism. It fits really well with the history mentioned above.

And yes on the Beatles vote. =D At least we know Shakespeare, Machiavelli and Tolkien lived because Lelouch's favourite works are Hamlet, the Prince and Lord of the Rings.

[tatooine.livejournal.com]

At least we know Shakespeare, Machiavelli and Tolkien lived because Lelouch's favourite works are Hamlet, the Prince and Lord of the Rings.

... wait, where did this come from? XD Shakespeare and Machiavelli I understand -- but Tolkien?

[loqi.livejournal.com]

It was from one of the big anime magazines posted a while ago which I can't seem to find, sorry. Basically they asked 50 personally questions to Lelouch and Suzaku and that was his answer to favourite books.

And com'on Tolkien totally fits Lelouch, it's all about trying to overthrow an overwhelmingly massive and evil enemy. Plus there are enough exiled princely characters for him to relate to.

[luinthoron.livejournal.com]

I sure hope they did not exist... The horror! :P

And Holy should refer to Christianity, I think, similarly to other "Holy" empires we've had.

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

Lol, true; it was roughly Germany geographically (though by Charles V's age, it also included Spain and a few Italian territories though him), but it was a collection of 'German' principalities; it's nature made it hard to administer as poor Charles found out...XD

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

It's true that the absence of any kind of apparent Church in Britannia is interesting. However, Britain herself rejected the authority of Rome in the reign of Henry VIII (politically) and in the reign of his daughter Elizabeth (religiously).

Politically, the figure of the Pope has often become problematic; what King wants the authority of his office divided, with his people splitting their loyalty between him and the Church (with the Church likely to win in a conflict, since it is responsible for Man's eternal soul)?

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

XD Yay, history!

[meitsu.livejournal.com]

well, the King of Britannia is also the Pope, so that's settled in Geass world. WHat I'm surprised of, is that for 2000 years, the king remained as the pope? maybe not as long, but still, that's pretty amazing that this role wasn't overthrown.

[meitsu.livejournal.com]

ATORI!!! +DDDDD

[norikosama.livejournal.com]

http://community.livejournal.com/lelouch_love/3342.html
Fifty questions.
AGH,HOLY CRAP,HE DOES LIKE HAMLET!!!
Then why doesn't he like Macbeth...the brutal one?
Lelouch: secretly a fantasy dweeb?
AHAHAHAHHAHA!Yeah,I guess.