History, Request, Poll.

[tatooine.livejournal.com]

I've been gnawing a little on Geass's AU history, and the biggest problem I've hit is the defeat of the Romans -- probably the greatest moment of divergence from, well, the real world. Working with verity_isle's translation here, the date of that invasion is the date of the founding of the Britannian monarchy and the a.t.b. calendar (2017 years before Geass). Thing is, that invasion (Caesar's, as per the DVD extra) took place in 55 BCE, placing Geass in 2017 - 55 = ... the 1960's. While I can see how this explains Euphie's hippie skirt in episode five, I was wondering if the comm had any other ideas (ie "they probably meant one of the first century invasions").

I'm also looking to collect tidbits about historical and scientific differences -- er, stuff like "Elizabeth I had a child" (what was his name? I know someone mentioned it somewhere) and "they don't have internal combustion." So this post is also sort of a request for interviews/world-builder factoids stashed across the 'net. ♥

[Poll #964598]

EDIT: Oh, also. The "Holy" part of "Holy Britannian Empire" -- Christianity? Celtic traditions? Ego trip? World of C?

Comments

[areku1993.livejournal.com]

I love how the poll is almost totally irrelevant. XD
I have no idea what you're talking about but I just wanted to say that.

[tatooine.livejournal.com]

Mostly I was wondering whether or not Euphemia would be a Beatles fangirl. But that devolved into wondering if rock and roll even exists in Geass world. I imagine that European musical history would have gone on more or less the same through the 1800's, and Ragtime should still have been around in the American colonies anyways to mix with Western musical theory for jazz etc. etc. etc., therefore... amateur history and amateur music-study give us a BS "maybe" on rock by the 1960's?

...

... it would be easier if I could remember anyone ever listening to music on the show? XD

[hikari-cyhan.livejournal.com]

D: The Beatles are not irrelevant!

[crackjaw.livejournal.com]

Uh, would that make it a sort of much more modern branch of steampunk? 'Cause I'm sure the world was not capable of producing mechas in the 1960s.

</missing the point>

[tatooine.livejournal.com]

I dunno; with the exception of the Avalon, the Lancelot, and the Gawain, the main-stream mechs don't seem that high-tech. They're tanks on wheels with mounted machine-guns and sharp hook things.

[crackjaw.livejournal.com]

Oh, and back on topic. I'm sure if the Beatles existed in Geassland we would have seen some of their influence in the show. They were seriously popular band, and I'd imagine their lyrics would be meaningful to a lot of people, especially with the amount that Britannia seems to be oppressing.

[zidane.livejournal.com]

If Pizza Hut is an inevitable product of history, and it must be because it's canonly in the show, then so are the Beatles. I mean, c'mon, it's the Beatles.

[x-reggg.livejournal.com]

HAHAH i love your logic ♥

[xorinaoe.livejournal.com]

I agree with if Pizza Hut exists the Beatles exist. So does Led Zeppelin. Yeah, if they exist then the whole world is mellow and on crack. :D

[meitsu.livejournal.com]

Nah, personally, I don't think the beatles themselves existed in Geass world, for one, there wouldn't have been a pop culture explosion in a traditionist and anarchist continent. Secondly, if Britannia owned our US and UK, why would there be a popularization of Beatles ;), America did the most advertising for them. That's not to say there isn't a variation of them in that world...though most likely it'll come from ...EU? =ppp

Hm..but one must think, does BCE = BC? then what does E stand for =x?

Oh, the Holy part probably came from the fact that the Romans called their empire the Holy Roman Empire? The Romans adapted Christianity as their religion, and did spread it around. I'm tihnking that either 1)to gain the support of the influential people or 2) establish authority, they adapted Christianity (or some form of it) as their religion, too?

~_~ head hurts....oh, one more thing, I must say, Geass world is pretty unrealistic, but if our world was like their, then it would be superior to ours in terms of technology. While knightmare frames don't seem all that advanced, you must understand one thing: we have not been able to create a machine capable of accomplish human tasks to such a high degree, at that speed and strength. Knightmare frames look pretty hard to pilot, too (wtf? at least there were keyboards in gundams [SEED], but knightmare frames have basically two knobs, some buttons, and pullers [excluding the fact that Gawain has a billion controls], and knightmare frames are supposed to be on par with gundam in terms of movement?). THere's also the problem with Sakuradite and pressure, if they're innovative enough to build weapons (even huge ones for knightmare frames) with pressure-based theories, what do you think they could've done with gun powder? They haven't even went into the nuclear age yet, remember that ;)

[tatooine.livejournal.com]

BCE/CE is a secularization of the old BC/AD, with BCE and CE standing for Before Common Era and Cosmic Common Era, respectively.

Lancelot moves pretty fast, but the rest of the Knightmares move at... about the speed of a fast truck? Other than that, I assume everything else is done with very basic automation -- you press the button, the machine gun starts firing. You press the button, it jumps. Knightmare frame motion even looks very well adapted to pressure-based technology (the agility, etc.).

[spleen.livejournal.com]

I like to think piloting a Knightmare is a lot like playing a video game. 8D

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

Actually, the Holy Roman Empire was German. ^-^ It's beginnings can be dated to the coronation of Charlemagne in 800 and the office sort of evolved from there, in emulation of the Roman Empire of history.

My favourite Holy Roman Emperor was Charles V, unfortunate enough to hold the title when the Empire was (though him)at it's biggest and when the reformation happened.

[chibifairy.livejournal.com]

I'm not trying to ignore the rest of your post (I just don't have much to say about it), but of course the Beatles exist in the Geass world! C'mon, we have PIZZA HUT. If Pizza Hut can make it into this world, so can the Beatles.

[norikosama.livejournal.com]

U CANNOT ESCAPE THE BEATLES NO MATTER WHERE YOU GO.
End of discussion.X3

[jdiam.livejournal.com]

Equalizer get.

[tatooine.livejournal.com]

You do believe in Beatles, you do, you do!

[vehemence.livejournal.com]

Their whole "Holy Roman Empire" title made me thing of two things. One, as someone stated above, the Holy Roman Empire, where the leaders within the Catholic Church were just as important of political players as the princes and kings and such. But the Brittanians don't seem to have much to do with religion, and no religious figures play any role so far... so that doesn't really match up. The second thing it made me think of was the sort of "holy manifest destiny" thing a lot of empires (and later America) had, where they stated that it was their God ordained future to conquer and expand. And THAT sounds very Brittanianish.
Aha... and the Beatles... a cameo appearance by good ol' Sir Paul would be like omg xD Because he IS a knight! AND HE COULD RESTORE PEACE AND LOVE TO THE EMPIRE!!!!!111

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

Maybe the 'Holy' part of the Britannian Empire comes from the tradition of Absolutist Monarchy, whereby the ruler claims his authority directly from God and is King/Emperor by the grace of God with no higher authority than he (as he is God's direct representative).

Absolutism was a popular political theory written on at length by Elizabeth I's successor James I, and it reached it's reached it's most well known expression in the 17th century in the courts of monarchs such as Louis XIV (known as an Enlightended Despot).

However, many rulers throughout many cultures in all periods of history have claimed that they rule because they are God's chosen representative, or because they are themselves Gods or are the descendants of Gods. Japan's Emperors have been no exception to this rule. Roman Emperors, for example, might undergo apotheosis, whereby they would be elevated to the status of a divinity when they died to reinforce the power of the Imperial office.

However, I don't think the Britannian Emperor has actually claimed to *be* a God. ^-^ The show isn't specific about the nature of Britannian religion and the presence of the Church (if Britannia even has an organised Church) is pretty much conspicuous by it's absence from the story.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I think the Emperor is after some divine right there since Geass is supposed to be the power of the king. I also don't think that one has to believe he is a god to claim divine right. The Emperor's whole speech about the strong prevailing over the weak speaks directly to the concept of divine right. You survive because you were made to be the chosen ones.

[may-neuma.livejournal.com]

Beatles do exist in Geass World. Ougi?

~ m a y ~

[x-reggg.livejournal.com]

well, there was that bit in episode 3? that had lelouch and co in a history lesson, but i've deduced there's too many variations in the translations (trust me, i've checked this with SHS, gg AND a chinese translation) for any facts to have come...

plus, they said that elizabeth the second or something (the current queen) died in one of them. which messes up my mind even worse.

and must i say that they're using SOLAR ENERGY? when we in the 2000s don't use it to such a large scale?!? DD:

[loqi.livejournal.com]

The son of Elizabeth would be Henry IX (mentioned in ep. 3 and again on Suzaku's textbook in ep.7). In the anime, it doesn't actually say which Elizabeth it was (in fact gg dubbed 'I' while SHS dubbed 'II'). Later evidence would show that Henry was probably the son of Elizabeth I, because in the same context of the textbook, they were talking about how England held onto absolute monarchy while other countries of Europe adapted to parliamentarization. This is very much in tune with what was happening during the English Renaissance and the time of our Elizabeth I. (The link to the full transcription of what's on Suzaku's textbook is here (http://community.livejournal.com/code_geass/40650.html).)

In ep. 12, an Elizabeth III was mentioned in relation to a Battle of Trafalgar and Edinburgh. This incident is probably the Humiliation of Edinburgh that Lelouch's teacher talked about that was on the test. It's related to the "new continent" (America?) and civil war (which is possibly the American revolution that failed in the Geass world). The mention of an Elizabeth III, doesn't really change my opinion that the mother of Henry IX is Elizabeth I (it fits so well since her dad was Henry VIII), but it does warn us to be cautious that we can't assume everything about the Geass world based on our world.

I think the 'Holy' part of the name is probably religious. Perhaps in the sense that the emperor is also the head of the Church, much like it is now in Britain. They're just more boastful about it. But I do like thomasvye's idea that it's because of Absolutism. It fits really well with the history mentioned above.

And yes on the Beatles vote. =D At least we know Shakespeare, Machiavelli and Tolkien lived because Lelouch's favourite works are Hamlet, the Prince and Lord of the Rings.

[tatooine.livejournal.com]

At least we know Shakespeare, Machiavelli and Tolkien lived because Lelouch's favourite works are Hamlet, the Prince and Lord of the Rings.

... wait, where did this come from? XD Shakespeare and Machiavelli I understand -- but Tolkien?

[luinthoron.livejournal.com]

I sure hope they did not exist... The horror! :P

And Holy should refer to Christianity, I think, similarly to other "Holy" empires we've had.