R2 Episode 1 Discussion: Of Predators and Prey

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Huzzah. R2's out. Subs are out and even a discussion post is out. Though, I have always felt the best way to pump up a discussion post is to give it a head start. If I am double-posting, mods may beat me and delete. (Sorry, I see this more of a break-down/analysis than a basic reaction post.) I can't say I won't sob a little. Oh and warning LONG POST IS LONG. Aka I only recommend if you want ACTUAL discussion.



I could go on about the OP like everyone else but really all I'm interested in is Gino dragging off Suzaku for molestings, who the hell some of those characters are in the Britannia/Black Knights split, Lelouch switching from Geass eye to normal (please say sexy contacts are involved), Arthur making an OP go arthur and my never-ending whinery that if we're going to get horse-riding Lelouch in the OPs, I want to see horse-riding Lelouch in an actual episode. Oh and the transition of Lelouch doing his eye/hand pose to Zero is hot.

Moving onto to actual content, we are all disturbed by happy Lelouch yes? But what I'm more disturbed about is that Villetta thought she could jump out of a window and LAND ON LELOUCH and not you know BREAK EVERY BONE IN HIS FEEBLE BODY. So lucky it was Rivalz. Also, Lelouch's smoke trap is pink. Yeah. Some people hate the way Lelouch bitches in this episode; I love it, it shows the little bastard can never be content with a calm life. The Britannian royal blood craves conflict. And that is just the type of thing Rollo spends the entire episode trying to counter, with his shying Lelouch away from things that might take him back to his old ways. Does Rollo do this out of actual concern or because he is just another piece in the trap laid for Lelouch? One of my favorite scenes is the two in the elevator, where Lelouch is tapping his fingers anxiously on the side. Yes, his fingers are beautiful (he has a pianist's hands through and through), but I just love the idea that Lelouch *knows* something is wrong, and it drives him mad that he can't figure out what it is. Adding to this: chess. He's not playing it for money but "as a way to kill time." Because as we all know by now, chess is Lelouch's comfort. Almost his security blanket in a way. It's very d'aww. Lulu loev chess. The director has even referred to Lelouch twirling around his chess piece when he is nervous, as chess gives him a sense of control. I like these little idiosyncrasies.

I guess here's where I'm supposed to go into the brainwashing and bad Charles bad, but I want some more ground before I tackle that one. Still sure seems like the Emperor and the bunch (aka the Knights who say Bri) had no fear that those soldiers were actually going to kill Lelouch. I wonder if the Emperor even thought he was actually going to get C.C. or whether he just wants to play with his most interesting son some more. As Suzaku so aptly puts it, he won't let anyone else have Zero. This kill is his. I have loads of theories on this assertion, but as that whole brainwashing + more power for the Suzaku thing is kind of mushy in my head, I will share them once I have a better standing on our knight version 2 or rather knight version 1 rebooted. Still, entire end scene with knights was super hot. And creepy.

Back to people who aren't Britannia, so who told the remaining Black Knights about Zero? Kallen? C.C.? Epic bowing down knightmares in purple flames was epic but GZUH. Also, seeing as that whole mission was staged by C.C., either she caught onto the Emperor's plan or she's playing into it. The whole SAVE ZERO vs. KILL LELOUCH subplot here amused me. Onto that, did Kallen see what went down at the very end of the cave madness?

Also, here I shall fangirl. Sorry. Suzaku's declaration that he has no regrets about shooting Lelouch since he's his friend and Lelouch's response: "Is that your choice?" Now this sits odd with me because it's very apparent Suzaku is about to kill Lelouch. And Lelouch's automatic reaction to VERY PRESENT NEAR DEATH is "omg omg don't want to die have to do things have to protect nunnally dammit all to hell." We've seen this several times. Lelouch, for all his bravado and conviction, fears death without purpose. Yet, here he is all but *challenging* Suzaku to shoot him. And not afraid. In 25, Lelouch acted much the same but it's obvious that he truly believe Suzaku wouldn't fire on him. The entire time, he thought he could talk him down. There was no reason for fear. That scene, oh the reason was very very real indeed. So why that reaction? Is there more to that scene? Is someone else there? Is there a reason Lelouch cannot snarl and fight as he always does? Or does he just still not believe he's going to get shot? Let's not forget Lelouch's series of questions to the baron at the end: "Can friendship coexist with justice?" Special as always.

Then we have the hands. Oh we've seen clutching hands in Geass many a time. The first episode started out with as much. We get it again on the rooftop during Arthur's antics. It returns in R2's OP in many incarnations: Lelouch reaching for Nunnally, C.C. and Lelouch near the end. There's Rollo trying to catch Lelouch from falling. Now why I bring this up is: Lelouch flashes back to it. Lelouch's mind is very selective when he flashes back to things. And there is usually an importance to the visuals. What are we missing here? We can also toss in Rollo's locket for wtfery. Is it connected to Nunnally? Can we say the Emperor has her? The ED speaks to V.V.'s connection with the Emperor. The ED also speaks to Rollo's duality. I think it would be cool if V.V. were Rollo, but now I'm kinda interested in a male Meer hybrid. One who is used for a role, possibly changes sides, but, and here's why I used hybrid, is much more than meets the eye. There is a connection between Rollo and the Geass. While Lost Colors probably isn't the best reference, that he bests a Geass within it is still worth considering.

I guess we can also touch upon Lelouch disliking Zero and all that encompasses. Hee. Ok, that's done. We all know the new governor-general is a dead man so who cares. Oh I forgot, Lelouch getting face-planted into the chess board = FRIGGIN' AWESOME. For some reason, that scene reminded me of Realm's AU fic where Lelouch goes a-chess-playin' and bites off more than he can chew. Yeah yeah white queen is C.C. Little argument there. Speaking of C.C., she practically stole the show near the end. I loved when she freaked out the soldiers after getting up from being shot. And her whole reference to the "accomplices" thing. She wants so much for Lelouch to remember that much. Hmm, is C.C. after the Emperor as well since he's after her? Also, Lelouch caught her! The knightmare holding out its hand to Lelouch was cheesy but still great. As was her almost gentle approach at bringing him back -- he had to make the final decision before she could do anything. He had to want his fate of conflict back. Hence, why the kiss only comes after his call for power.

Ah, the kiss. I do not hold true that it seals memories completely. If brain-washing was afoot, there is some shakiness there. Perhaps it seals the Geass? But wait Lelouch still had the Geass in his confrontation with Suzaku AFTER the kiss. Does it seal memories of the contract? Possibly more likely. I imagine it would be hard to summon a power if you don't know you have it. But again, isn't the Geass supposed to be permanent now? It appears to be so in the next episode, and Lelouch retained it throughout the end of this one, despite his orders being fulfilled. (Note, having the soldiers shoot each other this time was nifty.) Continuity error or more than meets the eye? This issue is probably my only real one with the episode, and the one I want resolved most quickly. I dislike anything that undermines Euphie's sacrifice. On-again off-again Geass is cheating.

Purple flames? LOL. Where the hell do you get purple flames? And Zero must be a manifestation of all Lelouch's eccentricities because those poses what the hell. Do you even look at yourself, Lelouch? Seriously? The music was EPIC and cheesetastic but you can't admit it wasn't fun. For all of its crack and WTF, Geass is always fun.

Nah, I'm not doing the ED. I am feverish, and people have discussed it to hell. We know the basics. Wings? No wings? Fake wings? Two wings? Cornelia? Nunnally? SUZAKU IS HOT. and lelouch is going to put his eye out with that thing.

Topics best left undiscussed: Ashford (we love you but no), Chinese sector (... why?), god Britannia is messed up in the head sometimes and... Kaguya.

All in all, we all know this was mostly entertaining fluff. Real season starts with episode two. But hey Geass is Geass so like I've been telling people: OMG OMG GEASS IS BACK YAY GEASS I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE HELL I JUST WATCHED UM YAY GEASS. My biggest want for next episode is to see how Lelouch reacts to Rollo now. And a preview from the original streaming suggests we might learn a bit more about Suzaku and the Emperor and their... dealings. Wait wait we also have Jeremiah in the OP and mysterious librarian next to Guilford to round up the discussion.


End note: I love all. You bash and I spam you with cat macros. That said, have at it, peoples.

Comments

[fox-holland.livejournal.com]

Yay Chinese eunuchs!

Orange-kun!!!
Where the hell did you go? D;

[rukawagf.livejournal.com]

i wouldn't say lulu is raito at all. I think lulu design was definetly influenced by Char and Raito (his personality that is)

but erm... losing that memory part made me face-palm. Since Raito also lost his memory for a bit in Death Note.

again, not really accusing anyone, but it's an interesting similarity.

[spleener.livejournal.com]

They're very similar in many ways- both had boring normal lives that were disrupted by a strange new power, both are frequently the subjects of debates among the fans of whether or not they're right or wrong, etc etc. I think the major thing that separates the two is that we're clearly supposed to see Light as a bad guy almost right off the bat, whereas we're supposed to see Lulu as a good guy.

[breepants.livejournal.com]

I have a feeling that the Geass-sealing can only be done by someone else with Geass. The emperor? One of his cohorts? I don't think C.C. would have done it. Needless to say, someone fucked around with his memories and others. I can understand Lulu thinking he has a brother, but everyone around him? No, something stronger was at work here. I think it was other Geass users.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Interesting assertion. There is some indication of a wider scale brain-washing going on here. But I'm not sure how wide. They don't explain how long Lelouch is supposed to have known Rollo. For all we know, he could have told people he found him. It also sounds messy. And Villetta? Other geass users? They hint at V.V. and the Emperor in connection so maybe?

[spleener.livejournal.com]

Yeah, Lulu shouldn't be using the Zero voice and the Zero poses without the mask, it just doesn't work.

And I'm hoping the apparent 9000% increase in budget holds through the remainder of the season.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Only because it looks slightly less ridiculous in costume.

[realms-of-life.livejournal.com]

Wow, I love your comments and thanks for starting this discussion. :) I will totally reply to this as soon as I come back from my errands, so please stay put.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I should have done them yesterday. I do love my crazily long discussion points. XD;;

[recession.livejournal.com]

In 25, Lelouch acted much the same but it's obvious that he truly believe Suzaku wouldn't fire on him. The entire time, he thought he could talk him down. There was no reason for fear.

Remember the Geass command Suzaku was under: DO NOT DIE. Technically Suzaku couldn't kill Lelouch with that command, or the sakuradite bomb would explode and kill him... thus rendering the Geass command broken.

Now the only thing we need to know is... would Suzaku's anger be powerful enough to break that command? We know that people can fight the command they're under if it's completely against their morals and their heart, but we have yet to see someone overcome the command itself.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

You know, this is a VERY VERY good point. And I was distracted by the sheer rage that we saw by the end of 25. Maybe the scene takes place after Suzaku shoots him to incapacitate him or maybe incapacitation occurs without any shooting at all. Before the whole deal with the Emperor comes into play. Or wait maybe after. Maybe that sound we heard at the end of 25 was someone showing up. Lelouch did sound tired. Maybe he was about to pass out. Or maybe he was just burdened by the betrayal itself.

[phyrexians.livejournal.com]

Wow I honestly forgot about that lol!

Good Point :).

[soresutaru.livejournal.com]

I didn't notice Jeremiah, I'll watch the opening more carefully. I hope he comes back D: He needs to show those non believes how to hail Britannia correctly.

[soresutaru.livejournal.com]

What I wonder about is what happened to the whole Liquid Sakuradite deal? Did he just leave Lelouch there because he knew he couldn't kill him without killing himself and Kallen? Then what about Kallen? Did Suzaku let her go or did she voluntarily infiltrate to Babel Tower under the guise of the zomg bunny girl disguise. Then what happened to Lelouch, I mean C.C. was kind of busy sinking to the bottom of the sea, so I wonder who saved him and treated him if he was in fact shot. V.V maybe, but it wouldn't make any sense. Then wouldn't you think Lelouch would have some sort of scar or mark where he was shot, I would assume even with the amnesia he'd know something had to have happened for him to get shot. Unless he was programmed to think he was attacked by the Black Knights or something.

Long response is looooong

[rainbow-cnxn.livejournal.com]

if we're going to get horse-riding Lelouch in the OPs, I want to see horse-rising Lelouch in an actual episode.
AGREED.

Oh I forgot, Lelouch getting face-planted into the chess board = FRIGGIN' AWESOME.
AGREED. Definitely one of the best scenes in the episode. Chess pieces are pointy and painful. D=

You know, I read the spoiler threads, so nothing in the episode itself particularly surprised me. In fact, the thing that got the biggest WTF from me was this pic:

HOLY CRAP, HE'S SMILING. WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU SAW SUZAKU SMILE?!?!

Anyways, I agree with almost everything you said. A few things that struck me:

The "I won't ask for forgiveness."/"Is that your answer?" bit didn't strike me as Lelouch on the verge of getting shot to death by Suzaku. I noted in a previous comment that I thought that Lelouch had already been incapacitated when this exchange happens, so I read what they said as referring to something else that is reprehensible to Lelouch. Dying without purpose certainly falls within that category, but I think being dragged back to Britannia to be presented before the Emperor as the loser of the war would, too. Although Lelouch is seeking to meet the Emperor, he wants to do so on his own terms. And he knows that the secret of his geass is out, and his enemy can most likely take steps to counter it, rendering his greatest weapon unusable. So yeah, I think what happened in the cave scene was that Suzaku wounded Lelouch and then informed him that he was going to take him back to the Emperor. (No idea how Kallen fits into this in the cave, though.)

In light of Suzaku and the Emperor both knowing that Lelouch was Zero, I found the "I will kill Zero" declaration rather interesting. It may just be me, but I found it interesting that he didn't say "I will kill Lelouch." Perhaps somewhere deep in his emo, emo heart, Suzaku wants to save his friend Lelouch by killing off the presence of Zero within him. (If so, he would approve of stuff like giving Lelouch amnesia. ) This would tie in nicely with what he says at the end of episode 25, "Your existence is a mistake! You are someone that doesn't belong in this world!" Perhaps it's my inner Suzaku fangirl speaking here (I honestly believe that he will be "saved" eventually), but I think that the message will come true for Zero but not for Lelouch.

I guess this entire thing is shaped by how I think the series will conclude, which is pretty much: Japan is freed, Lelouch kills the Emperor, and Suzaku gets rid of Lelouch's geass by gouging out his left eye or something. (Come on, it's CLAMP character designs. And admit it--you want to see Lelouch with an eyepatch. =P) Overall, a GOOD (but bloody) END that leaves our main characters (except Nunnally) all pretty much damaged.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Interesting idea on that ending there. Fans do loev the eye-gouging, and I've always found something intriguing about the notion of Suzaku thinking he can destroy Zero by destroying the Geass. Not sure how likely it is to go down though.

I didn't think about how the memories could tie into Suzaku's want to fix his "mistake." I still think that standing idly by as Lelouch gets brain-washed is a bit hard for me to swallow. But I also know how Geass characters thrive on disassociation. Perhaps it is just easier for Suzaku to say "Zero" since then he doesn't have to specifically remember this was once his friend. His connecting Lelouch with Zero caused some hang-ups (not as bad as Lelouch's but there were still there a bit) when he last tried to take out Zero. Maybe Suzaku truly believes the Lelouch he knows is dead at this point, as of killing Euphie. Before there was still a chance that he might have been deterred. Suzaku may feel he has to kill him to put an end to the Lelouch he had a hand in creating when he didn't tell him about the patricide. Suzaku does refer to this in the picture drama, as I have told other people. Honestly, the line that stood out more for me than anything was "I will not let anyone else have him." Again, Zero/Lelouch is Suzaku's kill. This is his responsibility. He doesn't just want Zero dead. *He* wants to do it. A similar parallel to Lelouch shooting Euphie himself when he probably could have let Kallen kill her. The boys do genuinely *accept* their responsibilities.

How this all coincides with the Emperor and the whole power exchange is where things get stick...

Also, I think smiling Suzaku may be an indication of how he is once the knights work on him a bit. I'm fairly sure Gino is here for two reasons: to keep Suzaku sane and possibly to be another lesson... Interpret that as you will. Geass writers are sadists.

[piccu.livejournal.com]

Rollo is the most moe guy in Code Geass.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Don't underestimate the Rollo. He knocked Kallen flat on her ass. Lelouch is still the overall uke here. XD

[ypaladinofchaos.livejournal.com]

The lost memory part had me yelling "WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON" for a few minutes.

Viletta jumping on Lelouch- I laughed so damn hard. And Rolo... probably some sort of trap laid of for Lelouch.

Did anyone else notice he looks similar to Nunnally? I'm betting on him being some sort of clone/replacement sent by the Emperor/someone else to pacify Zero for a while.

The "on again off again" Geass bugged me too. I'm hoping they have a decent explanation later on.

P.S. Kallen in a bunny suit *grins*- highly unnecessary, but so, so damn awesome.

[neko-astrid.livejournal.com]

heh I was so right! someone with a geass royaly fucked with Lulu's memories. but in the end I supose it doesn't matter, he remembers now, and seems pissed about it, lol it was kinda like a redo of the first season first episode, when he made everyone shoot themselves. This season is kicked off with a bang and it looks like its gonna be badass. It looks like the black nights still believe in him ( by the way they greeted him) though there is still some hate and doubt among the ranks (Todo's people)but C.C. is loyal as ever. I'm still keeping with my idea that there is something really bad about Rolo ( 1. where the hell did he come from? 2. he showed up during the time that Lulu forgot who he really was 3. how did he get Lulu from Karrin when they were running away *she seemed dazed*).

call me a hater if you like, but as cute as he is, Suzaku has lost all fangirl points with me, he's just become another pawn to the sysytem backstabbing little bastard! (sniffle) How they hell do you ask someone if your friends while pointing a gun at them point blank O,o. it seems like they have both switched rles in a way.

Before it was like people were not sure what to think of Zero's methods for fighting britania and whether or not he was really the bad guy in the whole situation because suzaku was like this confused little night that you felt sorry for because he really had good intentions. but that has COMPLETLY GONE OUT THE WINDOW! he's lost all that damn innocense, he's really become a traitor now. He seems to know that Zero is gonna make a come back so I hope Lulu kicks his ass.

I'm also eager to see what role the Chinese federation is going to play in this, they are like the unknown third party that your not sure what to expect. will they side with Britania as another super power, or side with the black nights to gain control of Japan, or they could just play both sides. its all still an X-factor.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Sigh. Over-simplification is what leads to the character-hate in this series. Everyone is complex. Nobody tells the truth. And few actually say what they are thinking.

Oh and right A PROMISE IS A PROMISE. (http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/funny-pictures-ceiling-cat-tells-kitten-to-kill.jpg)

[perosha.livejournal.com]

I'm just wondering where the hell this Rolo person came from and why his parents hated him enough to name him after a mediocre caramel candy (http://www.groovycandies.com/V2ProdDetail1.asp?Product_ID=2182). Then again, there's a kid in this show named "Rivalz," so I guess I shouldn't be too harsh.

I don't watch a lot of anime, so maybe my suspension of disbelief hasn't developed enough to withstand random things like this, but pulling a brother out of thin air just makes me cluck my tongue. It's like...is he really his brother? If not, why on Earth would Britannia bother planting him when keeping an eye on Lelouch's every move is so easy to do anyway? If Candyman Rolo IS Lelouch's brother, why was his existence not remotely hinted at in S1? All I know about CG is what goes down in the show, so if there've been video games or what have you that explain this, then I guess the point is moot...but still.

Also, random idea: we know the Emperor's got a Geass in the OP, but does that mean he has one now or that he'll get one later in the show? The only way I'm buying this whole keep-Lelouch-alive-but-erase-his-mind thing is if it were done by Britannia in order to use him as bait to lure out C.C. (because he's only worth anything to her while alive), so maybe the Emperor doesn't yet have a Geass and wants to acquire one via C.C.. I dunno, I'm just throwing ideas out there.

Ah well, maybe things will be explained m0ar better next episode...

[assoil.livejournal.com]

Candyman, I laughed my ass offXD

Also, random idea: we know the Emperor's got a Geass in the OP, but does that mean he has one now or that he'll get one later in the show? The only way I'm buying this whole keep-Lelouch-alive-but-erase-his-mind thing is if it were done by Britannia in order to use him as bait to lure out C.C. (because he's only worth anything to her while alive), so maybe the Emperor doesn't yet have a Geass and wants to acquire one via C.C..

good point, but why he would want to have one from C.C if he has V.V? Also the ruins-hunting Charles has has something to do with V.V. or is his doing? I can´t wait for turn 2.

[sapphirus.livejournal.com]

I only have one thing to say about it...

That bunny girl... maybe it's only me, but I was dumbstruck by how ridiculously hilarious it was that she was holding a picture of Zero like he was the new Jesus or Mao Zedong. XD

Zero-sama banzai~!

[zerorevenge.livejournal.com]

Needs 2 things; Orange-kun & Guilford.

[kuroshin.livejournal.com]

Hmm... Its it me or im wondering how the hell idid Lulu get amnesia? I mean it just does not fit. One theory of mine is that CC sealed Lulu's memories and his inifinitely activated Geass sometime after the cave incident.

Im also intrigued that the Emperor knows of Lulu's geas, however im wondering what kind of Geass the old geezer possess.

And its also interesting how Zero was revered as somekind of a national hero, that the japanese have wallet sized Zero pics in their possesion.

And no mention of Nunally in EP 1! Im guessing that Rollo's just playing along Lulu's faux memories and knows more of Lulu. Where's Nunnally?

[assoil.livejournal.com]

I don't think someone has mencioned so...

What the hell happened with bomb girl Ninna!?

[gdmcrjunkie.livejournal.com]

I'm guessing I'm the only person that thinks Lelouch remembered what Suzaku said in the cave and thought "Is that your answer?" at that moment, not in the cave.

[chiapetzukamori.livejournal.com]

actually, I was under that impression too :-D woo! *high fives*

[chiapetzukamori.livejournal.com]

one other thing that confuses me...the answer to which is not being discussed or I'm missing somehow o_O

What about Nunnally? I mean, obviously she's been captured or something... V.V. did who-knows-what....but at the very end of the last episode you hear the gun shot and you see Nunnally tossing her head up as if surprised. Did she hear Suzaku shoot Lelouch? Did V.V. do something to her? For some ridiculous reason I thought maybe she got shot instead after watching the end of season 1 (because of how those scenes usually play out - blackness, a shot, then the victim looking surprised).
I dunno....SO much left unsaid lol.

but FINALLY we get an opening with decent animation to go with the music! No more relying on MADs! lol v(^_^)v