Lelouch: Hero, Anti-Hero, or just Batshit Insane?

[inulovinkit.livejournal.com]

Well, with R2 kicking off, I suppose it's as good of a time as ever to discuss Lelouch, and where we think his character is gonna go with Season 2.

The first thing everyone notices about Lelouch is that in ways of personality, he's practically a Yagami Light clone. Well, sure, they've got the sidekick that gave them the awesome power, the strive to create a better world, the intelligence, and the questionable sanity, but there was always one thing about Lelouch that seperated him from Light in my mind:

While Light would kill anyone, for even trying to catch him, or heck, if they insulted him and he got pissed (in the case of Lind L. Taylor), Lulu seems to still have retained a bit of his soul, and most of the time, does feel sorry about the more innocent people he has to kill. While I suppose "Lelouch Vi Britannia commands you to die", awesome as it may be, is still a bit shocking, usually, if Lulu is in a sticky situation, uses his Geass to get people out of his way instead.

That, and he also cares deeply for his family, and his friends (and Suzaku, though the hate!love there opens up many more layers that I won't be getting into), and at the end of it all, does feel sorry for what he has done to achieve his goal. (He did angst quite a bit with the Shirley and Euphie things).

And because Lulu is doing an arguably good thing, trying to defeat Britannia, which, I'm sure, we can all agree needs to be defeated, it makes me wonder if we're supposed to view him as a hero or an anti-hero.

While there are many connotations for the word "anti-hero", the most widely accepted definition is a protagonist that is doing bad things to achieve a goal that the audience may not agree with. Take Sweeney Todd for example. He went around killing people, yet we were supposed to sympathize, heck, even root for him.

So, applying it to Lelouch, it's not so cut and dried. True, he does do bad things, but is goal is of a more noble cause than most anti-heroes; he's not doing it for himself, but for someone else, and his cause is a righteous one. However, he does not fit into the archetype of a "hero" because "heroes" are supposed to be noble (Like Suzaku before he went apeshit at the end of season 1) and not manipulate people for the cause.

Which is why, for me anyway, it's hard to place Lelouch into either these categories. He stands up for a right cause, but he understands and willfully kills innocents for it (not to mention using the Japanese just so he could wage war on Britannia). And, while many anti-heroes seem to have "sold their soul" and will do bad things without a second thought, Lelouch always has his angsty "what have I done?" moments in the series.

He was created this way, I know, but it goes to show that sometimes, there really is no clean cut distinction between good and evil, unlike stories like Harry Potter would lead us to believe.

Also, the study of his character brings into the question of his sanity. There is a fine line between genius and insanity, I know, but Lulu...with this kid, you never know. He seems almost normal sometimes, in the happy schooltime episodes, and then he goes and starts cracking up and laughing his ass off when he finds out he's fighting his best friend. I suppose no one wholly sane could have pulled off what he did, but it also makes me wonder if Lelouch was like this from the start ("Suzaku...I will destroy Britannia!") or if it was a by product of his Geass and what he realized he had to do to achieve his goal over time. (And that Epic Grin in episodes 1 and 23...I'm sorry, but no one completely sane can make that grin).

If he's insane by Geass, then it makes sense...after all, Light Yagami could have been considered sane until he got his hands on the Death Note. Absolute power corrupts absolutely and all that. Or it could be that he thought it would be easier to deal with what he had to do for the sake of his goal if he cast aside most of his sanity.

If he was insane from the start...well, I'm not surprised. Given the amount of incestuous subtext in the Britannian Royal family, there's probably a lot of inbreeding going on there.

So, those are my thoughts, think of them what you will.

Comments

[5cmprince.livejournal.com]

for both length and content, could you please lj-cut this?

[inulovinkit.livejournal.com]

Yeah sorry, I forgot the first time I submitted it, and then edited it right away.

[powercorrupts.livejournal.com]

I always love commenting on discussions like this, I had no idea my screenname would be this hilarious in this context when I chose it.

Really, I'd beg to differ. I'd say Lelouch and Light have a lot of differences. Both are tragic figures, protagonists with numerous villainous qualities and tendencies. And there are some number of similarities. But you could argue similarities with any number of western tv show or movie or novel characters as well, so I think it's just ill fortune for Geass that it came out with such proximity to Death Note that the likenesses would be so noticed. I don't think they have any more in common with each other than either would to any two particularly clever anime villains, it's just the matter that both are heroes instead of villains that makes people notice the similarities more.

Personally, I find Lelouch vastly more sympathetic than Light. Light, to me, is intriguing and fascinating and wonderful to watch, but I never really felt a great deal of emotional rapport when it came to him. Lelouch, on the other hand, breaks my heart every few episodes. A lot of it has to do with the difference in their characters and the storytelling styles - note that Death Note shows us Light's discovery of the Death Note, but then jumps fast forward very quickly and only shows us snippets of his moral quandaries. CG, on the other hand, gives us great detail of Lelouch's questioning of his methods.

There's a great deal of repition to it as well - in case we thought that his sickness at his murder of Clovis was a fluke or a beginner's weak stomach, he is once again sickened at what he has to do for Shirley. He sheds tears for Euphemia. Lelouch might think himself heartless enough to do what he must, but unlike Light, he can't simply set aside his human side forever; Lelouch can delay his conscience in moments of power high or necessity, but it comes back to him despite it all.

In casting Lelouch, a figure who would normally play a sympathetic villain role (I'll take this moment to compare him, instead, to Char Aznable of Mobile Suit Gundam - both are high-born masked military commanders known for their forethought in tactics, who systematically eliminate the ruling family of the show's antagonist nation for personal vengeance, and care deeply for a younger sister) as the protagonist instead, Geass allows us to see all the little moments when Lelouch falters in his resolve, when he questions his own might-makes-right and ends-justify-the-means attitudes. For all the viewers who would normally look right past a sympathetic villain's human side and instead only watch the heroes, Geass shoves them roughly into having to watch Lelouch instead.

I'm not sure if I'd call him insane. The term gets bandied around so often in fandom that I hesitate to use it for characters who do not have an obvious emotional disorder. As far as the issue of power corrupting, I see it as a definite theme of Geass. Season 2's first episode made it blindingly clear that Lelouch desires power, even without knowing cognitively what power he seeks. The first season's first episode could have been a boy faced with death grasping at whatever he could, but season 2 makes it very clear to me that Lelouch loves his power. It's something he's taken joy in from the beginning, and it's something that has affected his judgment from the get-go as well. His obvious glee as he killed Clovis, compared to the revulsion he displayed later, makes it obvious that he's very susceptable to getting caught up in the rush of being the one to have power. I think it's easiest to say that it likely stems from his father, and his father's constant affirmations that power is a god-given sign of one's right to rule.

Having seen very clearly how little being powerless gets someone, and how much being the one with power can give someone, I think it's little wonder that Lelouch loves it so much. The world of Geass makes it very clear who the haves and the have nots are, and Lelouch has seen both enough to know which he'd rather be.

[fox-holland.livejournal.com]

At that time Clovis ordered the destruction of the Shinjuku ghetto which ended up with not only nearly killing Lelouch, but Suzaku Kururugi, Lulu's best friend, was "killed" according to his own eyes. I'd say Lelouch was within an extreme emotional norm action that one would commit rather than as power crazy.

I'm not sure about how Lelouch cares for the innocent people. It's evident in the first half of the season one as Lelouch is using this as propaganda to bring support to the Black Knights, but his ideals and mind set are toward actually caring. Then it escalates at the end of episode 12, when Shirley tells him that her father, an innocent man, is dead because of Zero. Lelouch does that "What have I done?" expression and sympathizes. Afterward, caring for the innocent people is never directly taken account again.

[powercorrupts.livejournal.com]

Well, in rewatching the first two episodes, I'd have to disagree a little on that. I mean, I understand that Lelouch no doubt is angered by Suzaku's "death," but he makes no mention of it after he recieves the Geass. If revenge for Suzaku is a consideration, it's one among many.

He instead plays games with the Britannians and terrorists, and rather than righteous anger at Suzaku's percieved death, he instead seems to be full of glee at his victories. His words aren't any message of anger, but instead affirmations of his ability to defeat Britannia in battle in their own setting - of his power. Even when he kills Clovis, there's nothing in there about Suzaku. He mentions on his mother, and changing the world.

As far as innocents go, I think he doesn't inherently care, but neither is he completely "kill em all". He is selfish, and doesn't seem to care about innocents at all until they're pointed out to him, or somehow affect him personally - he's much like a spoiled child in that way. I think he only has a very childish mentality about it - that it's terrible that innocents have to die, but that those sort of things have nothing to do with him, even though he causes it at times. His attitude strikes me as a more extreme, more clearly defined version of most real teeangers I've known, who knew in a vague way that innocents suffering somewhere was wrong, but didn't care more than to say that it was a shame and go on with their lives.

[inclino.livejournal.com]

Well, I just had to point something. Actually I remember clearly a scene on episode 22, where Lelouch realizes what he had done, when the 'elevens' around him are all covered in blood. Then some old, dying woman asks for help and says something along the lines of "Zero, you are our hope", and he keeps saying "stop" with the usual "What have I done?" face.
There are more moments like that (maybe even on 24-25, not so sure though) but I don't remember them that well.
I don't think Lelouch is 'socially unconscious' at all, just egoistic as anyone in his position would be, IMHO. Think about it, he is lonely, and it's not like he had parents (past a certain age) to teach him morals, either... But even so, he knows what he's doing. But he thinks it's needed for "a better world", too.

I hope not to sound incoherent there. My english is terrible and it's been a few months since I last rewatched Code Geass so... >_>;

[ladyassassin27.livejournal.com]

I'm going to go with lulu being not exactly sane theory. Although I wouldn't call him completely and totally batshit-crazy.

My theory on him is, that he may have created the personality of 'Zero', as a way of handeling what he is doing. It may be that, even though he is doing what he's doing for a noble cause, he was having problems justifying killing so many people to himself, hence 'Zero'. When he is Zero ... he can do anything that he would not do as a normal person.

However I do agree with Powercorrupts that Lulu does get caught up with things and the reality of what he does only hits him much later.

So in conclusion, Lulu could be classified as a mentaly-unbalanced hero.

[ryoku-chan.livejournal.com]

Personally, I think that Lelouch is corrupt with power. I don't think he's insane. Though I know that this isn't only brought upon by the Geass. Lelouch was obsessed with making a world for Nunnally and taking revenge long before the geass came to him, and he even states that he would have done what he's doing now. It would have taken him more time he admits, but he would have done it with or without the Geass.

It also stems from the fact that he hates his place in life, we all know that. He doesn't want to be used - which is ironic because he uses everyone else that he can. I think this is a driving force, and even though he doesn't like his standing, when he moves against it, the ripples of his actions effect everyone around him. Despite how normal this is he feels bad about it. But Lelouch isn't the type of person to make anything stop him, so he continues.

But I don't think he's insane. These are all very human reactions, and in his situation I can see very little way of doing anything else. He's already set himself up to be Zero, he would only make things worse by abandoning his plans. So he keeps going, trying to get his perfect world for Nunnally. I don't think it stems from insanity at all. A huge complex, probably, but not insanity.

[corsette.livejournal.com]

First things first, I want to say that I personally don't see anything that Lelouch has in common with Light other than "power that can change the world" (as I've seen it put) and an actual brain that they put to use. Other than that, Light is a power-hungry bastard, with no remorse for those he kills. Honestly, if you're looking for mentally unstable... Light is probably up there with the Evangelion cast. Heh. (His God complex is almost as bad as Asuka's inferiority complex, at least.)

With that aside, I can't say I don't dismiss Lelouch having a mental illness. ladyassassin27 brought up the possibillity that "Zero" is a different person in Lelouch's mind... and I agree with it. Lelouch himself strikes me as a, well, guarded being. A private person who rarely shares his thoughts with anyone; not even his own flesh and blood. I attributed it to his mother's death, such a thing would be quite shocking and scaring for a little kid. Actually, in my mind, he's rather gentle, probably even sensitive, if a bit rough around the edges. ...Alright, maybe a little more than rough, but you get the point: Lelouch doesn't strike me a murderer, mentally unstable, insane or whatever, he seems fairly normal to me. Ignoring the whole "MY MOTHER IS DEEAAD"-thing. >>; I wouldn't be surprised if he had to come up with "Zero" to deal with the mental strain of all he's doing.

Also, in response to Lelouch loving power... well, power does corrupt. I wouldn't be surprised if Lelouch was completely off the rocker by the end of the series, now that I think about it.

...So yes. I would probably vote for mentally unstable, at the moment at least, though I want to avoid saying he really does have Split Personality Disorder/MPD. (And now, I have images of a bunch of different Lulus having a party in my head... Damn.) Also, comment that makes no sense GET.

[thornsmoke.livejournal.com]

I'm curious. What do you mean by "Zero" as a different person? I can't tell whether you mean that he compartmentalizes extremely well or whether it's closer to a deliberately-formed case of multiple personality disorder.

It's a fascinating idea, but I wouldn't go so far to say that Zero is an actual separate personality. In my experience, people have different facets to deal with diffrent situations: a facet for home, for school, for social things, etc. Zero would be Lelouch's "retake Japan from the invaders" persona, and since that's an extreme situation, the persona he uses matches the circumstance.

[corsette.livejournal.com]

What I mean is, like alternate persona. Kind of like how one could view Batman as a different persona from Bruce Wayne (Though I'm not sure that's his name. Been a while since I've read Batman.) though they're the same person.

Neither would I; as I said, I hesistate to say "MPD", since it would be a personal choice. He created "Zero" to, like you said, retake Japan. My wording was bad, but I think you and I are quite on the same page. ♥

[ladyassassin27.livejournal.com]

That's what I was getting at 'zero' is the persona he uses when he's 'liberating japan' Its not like he has MPD ...

But what I find strange is that when he is dealing with his siblings he always does so as Lulouch ... I guess this is probably because he might have been planning to kill his sibilings since the start, it was part of his original plan to destroy Britannia. So I guess he was mentally prepared for that. But not for the other stuff ... probably why he's uses the 'zero' persona for that.

[kaiserkehl.livejournal.com]

The guy's got tons of emotional issues and you give him that kind of power? even tho I think he's quite smart (very but apparently not brilliant) nnyah, of course something bad's gonna happen, the guy's gonna lose it completely trying to accomplish his goals and what he thinks is right.

(Btw, Light? I think he was evil even before he had the Death Note. Unlike Lelouch! even now, I don't think he has reached the evil status yet, maybe he will! but he ain't there yet).

[rainbow-cnxn.livejournal.com]

he's practically a Yagami Light clone

I would vehemently disagree with this assessment. Prior to gaining their respective powers, I would say that Lelouch and Light were fairly similar, but what they did with their powers is vastly different. Light was a megalomaniac who, from the get-go, wished to be the "god of a new world" subservient to him. Lelouch's goals were of a far smaller scope--he wanted to clear up the circumstances of his mother's murder and provide his sister with a safe world to live in. As C.C. said at the end of episode 25, Lelouch is a man who simply wanted a little bit of happiness. Given the ambiguous morality of both their methods, it is easiest to judge Lelouch and Light on the merit of their end goals. And as a result, I argue that it is far easier to sympathize with Lelouch than with Light.

Furthermore, the comparison of Lelouch to Light falls apart when you examine their relationship to others. Light marginally cares for his family over everyone else, but he'll still gladly risk his own family members to further his own benefit. Justice be damned, anyone who gets in his way will be cut down. Lelouch, however, recognizes the value of individual lives, has and cherishes actual friends, and tries to be a decent guy, in general.

But I agree that the geass is sorta getting to his head, albeit I don't think it's a side effect of the power, per se. I think it's more like he's an extraordinarily driven and competent character who has recently arrived at an amazing power. Any craziness would simply be a product of his own inability to deal psychologically with the circumstances. Much like how Suzaku's mind buckled under the weight of his guilt and lack of agency, Lelouch's mind may sometimes also falter beneath his own ambitions and short-sightedness. However, I don't think that Lelouch will be corrupted absolutely. Light was a bastard with evil intent, in whose hands the power of the Note only accentuated his demise to madness. Lelouch has better intents, and the simplicity and justifiability of his end goal helps him retain his sanity in spite of everything.

[nativegirl.livejournal.com]

I think it's incorrect to say that Yagami Light was that way "from the get-go". The Death Note fell into Light's hands; he used it with the intention of serving a higher cause than himself - justice. It wasn't until quite a few chapters later that Light began sacrificing innocent lives to cover his tracks, and departing from his original sense of "justice".

I'm not distinguishing this to nit-pick, but I think the essential difference is that Light's insanity was brought about by his own pride and a lack of rational justification, whereas Lulu's, if he IS insane, is brought about by a power that he can't control or reason. (Light's downfall isn't the Death Note, it's his principles, in other words).

Edit: I guess you & I agree on the essentials, but yeah, except in the anime, he was a bit more sane in the beginning.

[rainbow-cnxn.livejournal.com]

I guess it has been a while since I've watched DN (and I never read the manga--I know, I'm a heathen DX), so I don't exactly remember when he stopped with simply judging criminals and when he started killing people that got in his way. Or when he started with the "god of the new world" crap. Apologies if I got the details wrong.

In any case, he eventually lost it. If he started the judging without a desire to become "god", it was at least clear that he lacked a clear end goal. This, in turn, would allow him to stray down the path to megalomania and injustice. Lelouch, however, seemingly has done a good job of constantly framing his actions within the scope of his end goals. He doesn't seek to destroy Britannia outright or become the Emperor or be the leader of a new world order, although those options are all open to him. If such roles would allow him to more effectively pursue his search for his mother's murderer and his quest for a safe world for Nunnally, then so be it. However, the megalomaniacal aspects of his actions are very clearly just a means to an end. With Light, it may have been the case as well, but lacking a definite end goal, his means became his end

TL;DR: So, uh, yeah. I guess we do agree pretty much on essentials. I just watching myself type way too much, I guess. XD

[thornsmoke.livejournal.com]

Actually, I go with a broader view of the anti-hero, since not all anti-heroes have immoral goals, nor is their corruption inevitable. An anti-hero is a character who inverts the standard heroic traits while fulfilling the hero's role, which works for Lelouch. He's definitely not a classic hero.

I don't think Lelouch is insane. I interpreted the wild laughing as hysteria - a kind of breakdown as he dealt with his situation. (And it must have seemed a very laughable twist to him, right out of a soap opera.) Of course, I didn't believe that Light was insane, either - just confronting the situations that came up with a moral code that grew extremely shady towards the end.

Is Lelouch corrupt? I would argue that, without the geas, he's not. The instinct of a corrupt man, when fallen, is to rebuild his power base and reach to remake his empire. Lelouch had a whole year for this, which he dedicated instead to... skipping gym class and playing illicit games of chess. He had no memories and so no reason to be wary, but he made no move. He's toed the line before, but I haven't seen anything beyond forgiveness. Of course, whether the geas gets him in the end remains to be seen...

In any case, corruption doesn't always lead to madness. I'm more inclined to say that Lelouch is obsessed with vengeance rather than mad about it. Madness would be to distort his passion all out of proportion, but so far he's kept himself in check. He holds the people he loves dearer than his own plans. Even in the throes of the geas - arguably the major corrupting influence - he breaks off mid-battle to go rescue Nunally.

To be a hero

[gendar.livejournal.com]

sometime mean - to do some thing that you didn`t want to do, but that need to be done.

Also i suggest to compare L2 with Inquisitors from WH40k realm, they are close in personality's in many ways.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I will probably poke at this later but in general, just because a character is insane doesn't make them a Light clone. And I dislike the people who suggest that Geass warped Lelouch. It didn't; circumstances made Lelouch who he is. He chose the Geass. And as seen in R2, he chose it again. I also disapprove of how the heroes are noble because honestly noble heroes have always bored me. Suzaku is not noble. Hence, my fascination. This comparison also falls flat because it assumes that Suzaku was not insane throughout Season 1; he was. All that changed is his drive, in a way. He still wants to fix things. Also, Lelouch does not willingly kill innocents; he, in fact, hates when he kills innocents. But at the same time, he pities those without power because Lelouch wants people to fight back. Bowing down bores him. Also, ow Harry Potter, OW. Please please don't compare this series to a childrens' series. As dark as Potter can be, it was still written for children, to grow as they grow. Geass was definitely not. About Ashford vs. the Rebellion, Lelouch thrives on lies and duality, telling himself one thing and yet not always able to follow through: Suzaku in point.

In general, when it gets down to it, the point of this series is the questions, the gray. You are not supposed to know who is right and who is wrong. Maybe nobody is. Lelouch is a hero to the Japanese. He's insane to the Britannians. I suppose Lelouch is closer to the anti-hero style, but he also has this genuine desire to help people. He's not just in it for himself. His actions show that much. Remember pay attention to what Lelouch does. NOT WHAT HE SAYS. Lelouch is a liar. And details are everything in Geass. Details are the reason Lelouch killed Euphie. Details are the reason nobody knows why. Details are the reason Kallen came back to him. Don't over-simplify. If you are going to analyze, you need to look at everything.

Oh and the way this Light vs. Lelouch topic comes up in every topic is starting to bother me. It's been discussed to death. They are two different characters. Come on.

[inulovinkit.livejournal.com]

But the reason I brought up Light was because it's a good way of analyzing Lelouch's character and how they're different. In the beginning, they're similar in personality: smart guys, dissatisfied with the world, and then they are given the power to change it. Then, they differ, and you have to wonder why.

Is it the power? What would have happened if, say, Lelouch ended up with the Death Note and Light got the Geass? Would they be the same characters, or would the different powers corrupt them differently?

I mean, the other thing that is merited by bringing up Light is by showing how Light went wrong and what doomed him, so to speak. We've seen it before, so we would know when Lelouch is past the point of no return. So far, we can tell that Lelouch can still be saved, but if he starts getting power-trippy and starts going down the path of "I will be a god!" (he had better not) then we'll know he's doomed.

I know it's probably brought up a lot, but unfortunately, with two characters with similarities in personality and power, but different in how they deal with it, they are going to be compared to find out where they differ and why.

my unsolicited opinion lol

[rainbow-cnxn.livejournal.com]

I don't think their respective powers affected their end goals and/or their "corruption". Light, given the geass (imagine the havoc), would have continued to judge the world and tried to become god. Lelouch, given the Note, would have continued to use its powers to his advantage in order to find his mother's murderer.

So yes, I think Light would still act like Light and Lelouch like Lelouch if the powers were switched. Any differences arise out of something more basic, independent of their powers.

[aoi-rein.livejournal.com]

I totally agree with you. I don't want to say it twice. My comment is some way below. ^^

[sandrock.livejournal.com]

As far as hero versus anti-hero, I don't know if I'd instinctively use either, but I'm not fully convinced I know what I would say. Lelouch is the series' central character, sometimes that's all he is.

There are others who have the same goals as he, in slightly different ways and with different means (which seems to at least partially eliminate anti-hero). Is Toudou a foil for Lelouch's power because he doesn't want to lead his people to freedom in the beginning, and is then convinced to do so by Lelouch? Is the Emperor a foil for basically inviting Lelouch/Zero to take over his kingdom, 'if he can'? How about Euphie? She isn't on Zero's 'side', but she does help him unintentionally. I won't even speculate about Jeremiah being a foil/device of any sort. He is and that's that. Is CC a foil because the power she gives Lelouch allows him to go after Britannia more quickly than he originally planned?

And that's another thing. He always planned to do what he's done, just not the way that he did it. Now that Zero's supposedly 'failed', he doesn't seem too discouraged. He's just going to try again, because he wants Britannia to fall, regardless the price and regardless the means he uses.

I think, maybe, it might be okay to suggest that he's a little mentally unstable. His mother was killed, probably by his father, when he was very young and then he was essentially evicted from his home/household/royal privilege. He has a power that could easily drive someone to insanity. Look at who he has for a best friend (I'm not suggesting that Suzaku made Lelouch insane, I hope that's clear). Mental stability is sacrificed for a story like this, and it wouldn't be only the villain/anti-hero who suffered from that. You and I wouldn't view the number of deaths in this series the way Lelouch does. His mentality is that of a general or some other leader during a war, where singular human lives can become very insignificant in the face of your ultimate goal. He seems to retain his humanity, yes, but not always his sanity.

Also, ultimately, Britannia is the villain. The role of Britannia in this series is to stand in front of the concepts of freedom and human rights and, basically, spit on them. So anyone in opposition to the idea of Britannia would be, I think, 'heroic'. Even if it is a twisted heroism.

To summarize: I think Lelouch is used (in the literary sense) like a hero and he is not completely sane. Also, I think that Lelouch and Raito's similarities begin and end in a power bigger than both of them. A good world is not the same as a 'right' world and it takes different kinds of people to want those two things. I think of Raito as a wrecking ball and Lelouch as the foreman who comes behind that wrecking ball to rebuild. If I were an author writing 'Code Geass' the book, Lulu would be my hero/protagonist. If I were an author writing 'Death Note' the book, not so. Raito would be my antagonist. He's an interesting character, but he's evil.

(I know. 'It's Light.' I can't make myself type it that way after writing it the way I do for so long.)

[firebird-88.livejournal.com]

I love comparing Light to Lelouch, since I'm a big fan of both fandoms. (A key note, however, is that Ohba herself said that "Light was not evil." She wrote him as a dishonorable character, not a evil once. Again, both Death Note and Code Geass are about human nature, not the fight of good vs evil. Except maybe the Emperor in CG, lol.)

Personally, I found that Light and Lelouch have one KEY difference --how they treat their family. Light stopped caring for his family half way through Death Note, whereas Lelouch had this beautiful, heartbreaking scene at the end of Season 1 where he ditches everyone --the Black Knights, the Rebellion-- and goes to save Nunally. I was goddamn PROUD of him because that was the true of how 'good' he was.

Also, I don't think he's anywhere close to insane. He's wanted revenge against Britannia for a long, long time, and judging by his point of view, most of us would probably want to do the same. The fact that he's smart and given the power of the Geass makes him SEEM insane, but in all honestly, he's behaving as a normal human being would. We're not perfect beings. We all have a dark side, we all want revenge at some point in our lives.

Yagami Light is a little bit difference because he's so darn apathetic, but even he had --remotely-- human tendencies in the beginning.

Personally, I'd consider Light Yagami a anti-hero, and Lelouch a protagonist in general. I have a harder time connecting to Suzaku before the death of Euphie because he just seemed too nice and too selfless to be real. ^^;

[aoi-rein.livejournal.com]

First thing to say, Light and Lelouch is completely different person. They're not same at all.

I suppose there're not clear cut about things. As I always say, there're no right or wrong, black or white in this world. It's depends on what your motive is and how you bring it in action. But other people can't judge and decide it whether it's right or not. That's why I can accept both Lelouch and Suzaku for their action. They have the same motive but act differently. I think talking about whether it's hero or anti-hero is not neccesary here. Since they all are not the typical type of hero and anti-hero already and who can determine how a hero or anti-hero looks like? I think it's depends on people. If that person saved you before I think you'll view him as your hero but instead if he harmed you before you absolutely will view him as an anti-hero. And what do you think what have Lelouch do until now? (^ . ^)

I don't think Lelouch is insane. Take it into consideration of the situation and what happenned to him. You can't say you'll do the same thing unless you have the same personality with Lelouch. I can say that it's Lelouch personality decide what he looks now. He's not insane when he laughed after he know that hindrance Lancelot pilot is Suzaku. He's laughing at hmself of how pity he was for not realizing it soon. And before that, he wanna made him to Nunally's Knight but now all have to change. He know what he's doing at every moment taking he's a realistic and careful perosn. A person can't think carefully and detailed yet can make decision immediately in an insane state.

Also, I wanna bring this thing out since it mention about Lelouch's personality. I forget where I saw it, someone mention about the lost memories Lelouch's personality is sucks. Bur I think it's still the same Lelouch in Season 1 before he has geass. For seven years, he also lives his life meaningless without doing anything. But that time he had motive and waited for time for his revenge. But this time, this whole year his memories had been modified and he don't know he still need to revenge. He still dislike this world but he has no power. So what can he do? Just whine about it.

[saverellawish.livejournal.com]

I vehemently disagree with Lulu being anything like Light. My friend keeps trying to tell me the same thing. Though there are similarities, Lulu is much more compared to Light. Though I've watched very little of Death Note (and probably will never seek it out and finish watching), Light never had that interesting factor for me. He always seemed insane and though I did agree with what he was doing to a point, I never sympathized with him as far where his actions were taking him. He never was remorseful over anyone he cut down in his path of justice, and though both he and Lulu are fighting for their sister (My friend told me this, about Light trying to make a better world for his sister, so correct me if I got it wrong), I place Light very much in the anti-hero category.

Lulu on the other hand, you can't help but feel for him. In my opinion hes so much more likable compared to Light. Because of the kindness he shows his family and friends, the remorse he feels over the innocents that he had to sacrifice, and even his unwillingness to write Suzaku off as defected to the enemy and unattainable as Nunnally's knight (though I have a distinct feeling Suzaku is taking care of Nunnally now in R2, not sure why, but I just have a feeling). Lulu honestly and truly wants a better world, and I don't think hes concerned with himself at all, except for living long enough to achieve that goal.

This is where I really disagreed with my friend about. She said that both Light and Lulu had a god complex. Though I can understand her reasoning for this, Lulu's god complex is non existent in my opinion, and if it there its easily over looked. The reason I disagreed with her is because Light out right says he wants to rule this world. Lulu on the hand has said nothing like that, only that he wishes to destroy the current world and rebuild it (but according to her that is a sign of a god complex, so I can understand that yes, he probably does have one). Lulu just doesn't have a god complex in the same way Light has one, and I will hold to this theory even to the end.

As for Lelouch being the anti-hero or hero, thats probably what I love most about this show. Though I place Lulu firmly in the hero category, its easily debatable with his actions. Lulu's character has created a whole new category, one thats not anti-hero or hero. I can't even come up with a name for it, but its there. Lelouch has opened up a whole new set of reasons and morals as far as good an bad go, and human nature.

[saverellawish.livejournal.com]

Recently in my AP English class we've been reading Lord of the Flies and discussing some of the themes in it (I wouldn't recommend reading it though if your expecting to find something like Code Geass). Both my friend and I while listening to this thought of Lulu when it came to discussing human nature, and knowing good from bad and such. I also thought of Light simply for the way he justifies himself as totally in the right. Simply its all how you perceive good and bad even if others disagree with it (and others will always disagree with it, just like the Japanese call Zero a Hero, and Britannia calls him a criminal).

As far as Lulu being insane, I think hes definitely more sane than Light ever was, but I think its true. As far as is it a product of incestuous breeding (I would really love to read more on Lelouch's family history, his relatives, who hes related to and who's married who before I decide if this is a factor or not), a result of witnessing his mother murdered and his sister crippled before his eyes, or a power high from the Geass, I think all played a factor. As far as breeding, we don't know enough about the Britannian Royal court, in CG's world I mean (as far as I've heard anyway), to really make this a factor or not. I do believe however that he could have snapped a little after witnessing what happened to his mother and sister, and his father's uncaring demeanor as far as caring either way what happened to either Lulu or Nunnally, and then shipping them off to Japan, definitely play a factor in Lulu's sanity. He seemed pretty messed up when he met Suzaku, very angry, but it seems like Suzaku managed to heal him abit (no, not in a boy love kind of way, though I really like that idea), even though his shell snapped again when Britannia invaded Japan. It would make sense way Lelouch seemed so normal (you know, excluding the whole exiled prince thing) before he met C.C. and got the geass, even though he was restless from powerless (if I remember if thats how he put it). It would also make sense why that insanity would come out again after receiving a power that could help achieve his goals. But I do agree, no one who's sane could pull off that grin that he does.

Either way, Lelouch is a whole new type of character who stands alone in most aspects of morals and what not. I do believe however he won't live towards the end the series, if he does, he won't be the same person. I can't even make predictions just because Lelouch is so unpredictable, but it will be amazing either way.

[pikacheeka.livejournal.com]

Just commented on this post but I quite agree with you.

Light is a sociopath. Lelouch is very sane.

They're both humans and they're both pissed and they both want to change the world.

Similarities end there. And if you're going to say that anyone with those characteristics is alike to another, then you have to say the whole friggin human race is nothing but carbon-copies.

[saverellawish.livejournal.com]

*Nods* I agree.

[assoil.livejournal.com]

I second that.

[faye-naruse.livejournal.com]

Lelouch has his love for his sister (and his friends and such) to keep him sane ;]

Err, for a while at least. Let's just hope it's long enough for him to defeat Britannia! Lulu isn't insane yet, but judging by how insane he seemed when he remembered he had the Geass in R2 Ep 1, I wouldn't doubt that he does loose his sanity by the end of CG (but I really do hope not). He also has the trauma of his mother's death and his crazy family stacked against him keeping his sanity...

[pikacheeka.livejournal.com]

Ugh. Someone on my FList was raving about this very thing and I had no clue what he was talking about. I didn't read this whole post, stopped at the Light Yagami sentence. And I'm just copying/pasting what I said in my friend's journal and elaborating upon it.

I never even saw any connection between Light and Lelouch until a friend pointed out a recent trend in anime that has the hero being of possibly evil nature. But that goes for not only CG and DN but a LOT of recent anime (even G00 and FMA). Other than that, no connection that I have ever heard or seen myself.

I love both CG and DN, but I can really see just about no comparison there. I think the tendency for people to say "omg!crazy genius" is "omg!crazy genius" in every series is idiotic, especially when LELOUCH IS NOT INSANE and if he ever does go mad, it's because of the Geass. LIGHT DID NOT JUST GO INSANE FROM THE DEATH NOTE. Light was completely and legally mad well before that. Light sees himself as someone who transcends humanity; he always had, long before he ever had the Death Note (from the moment he laid hands on it, he claimed he was the only one ever capable of using it anyhow, further proving that from the start, he at least considered himself separate).

Yea both want control. Both are trying to change the world, but it stops there. Hell, their reasons for wanting to change the world and their beliefs about it aren't even REMOTELY similar. "I am Justice. Being a super-human who alone can see the truth, I have the ability and therefore the right to step over the line and do what not even God has done properly. I shall bring the world into a new order" does NOT equal "I'm a fucking angry teenager and I am going to get revenge on my father at all costs. I am going to save my country and start a revolution so that my little sister may finally be able to live the life she deserves."

Light's a sociopath. Lelouch isn't. And any other comparison between the two falls dead right there because Light is not even human, lacking the most fundamental building block of humanity, which is a conscience. As I said, Light is insane. Lelouch isn't. Light doesn't ACT insane, while Lelouch does, but that only goes to show that nothing is as it seems. Light is so mad, so sociopathic, that he doesn't deem what he does as wrong. He doesn't suffer from anything past a desire not to get caught. He is no Raskolnikov. He can commit crimes and not give a damn, because he's above the rest of the world. He doesn't have to worry about the degrading conundrum called a conscience that so plagues the rest of mankind. While just about everything Lelouch does makes him nervous, uncomfortable, and paranoid. He's hysterical. He acts crazy. Because he's stepped over the line and he's realized that in doing so, he must effectively throw away his humanity, something he knows he can never do. Lelouch is schismatic, while Light is pure in his motives. Light is the madman, the inhuman, while Lelouch in his very ambiguous nature is sane and very human.

Lelouch is NOT a Light-clone. If anything, it means that someone finally figured out that fandom is sick of stupid goodie-goodie perfect heroes.

PS If fandom really wants to see Lelouch as a DN character, you should be comparing him to MELLO, not Light.

[powercorrupts.livejournal.com]

While just about everything Lelouch does makes him nervous, uncomfortable, and paranoid. He's hysterical. He acts crazy. Because he's stepped over the line and he's realized that in doing so, he must effectively throw away his humanity, something he knows he can never do. Lelouch is schismatic, while Light is pure in his motives.

Wow, I think you've really hit this really well. ♥ It's something I'd never noticed before in so many words, but I think you're absolutely right about it. Light really has completely rationalized and justified to himself everything he does early on, whereas Lelouch continues to be tormented by it.

I wondered if there wasn't something to the Light and Lelouch comparisons at first, but when I saw it start to extend to other anti-heroes like Hei from Darker than Black, I realized that fans are just looking for a neat, easy to way group all anti-heroes together, irregardless of their actual similarities.

[inulovinkit.livejournal.com]

I only compared them because it's what my Eng. classes tell me to do. I mean, both Light and Lelouch have similar circumstances in the beginning of their stories, and where do they differ and why, and what factors contribute to their differences, etc. (Heck, I should write my next paper on this subject...I've got plenty of subject material here).

I mean, after the popularity of DN, and with a few similarities in characters, they are inevitably going to be compared. Which is why I compared them in the OP because really, I think it is possible that were certain circumstances changed, Lelouch COULD have ended up like Light. He LIKES his power and the ability to bend people to his will...without his drive for his sister, and to find his mother's murder, who's to say that he couldn't have gotten all power-trippy and gotten the "god complex"?

I did, after all, state that while they are similar in personality, it is the extraneous circumstances that clearly makes them different. It's always the extraneous circumstances that chose which "path" to say, we'll take when faced with a big choice.

[pikacheeka.livejournal.com]

Similar circumstances? I still beg to differ. (and at the beginning of this comment you say they have similar circumstances, while at the end you say they have similar personalities and NOT circumstances).

Light hates the world and humanity as a whole. Lelouch hates his situation and Britannia. While Light despises the universal, Lelouch despises the particular, giving him a more human and personal bent. Light sees the corruption and the uselessness of the world, the degradation of society, the pathetic state of human nature, and he despises all of it. He differentiates strongly between himself and the rest of humanity, as he considers himself above them. He has the RIGHT, so he believes, to break the law, because the law pertains to the weak, the stupid, the lowly, the human. The law has nothing to do with him. He kills others who break the law because their reasons for doing so are petty. They do everything out of selfishness, while Light considers himself to be above that. He's taken on the place of God because he alone knows what true justice is. When someone attempts to prove him wrong, he tries to kill them. He hates Misa not only because she's a pain in the ass, but because her reasons for killing are as petty and selfish as those who he himself kills. Light sees himself as a superman. When he finds the Death Note, he automatically assumes that it was some sort of providence that gave it to him. It wasn't given to him. He found it. But he decides that it was meant for him and him alone.

Lelouch was personally given his power, but he can understand that it wasn't necessarily meant specifically for him. And even if he did ever believe that, it would have been shattered when he met Mai and CC admitted that she does make mistakes when she gives her gift to others. The world PERSONALLY OFFENDED Lelouch, whereas Light is personally offended by the world. Big difference in circumstance and motive right there. If Lelouch had nothing to fight for, had never been offended, he would not use his power. He would be terrified of it, as he is even now. The ONLY reason he even uses it is because he loves his sister and hates his father that much. He's willing to at least try to give up his humanity, to use himself as a sacrifice, to help her and defeat him. If he didn't have those reasons, it's unlikely he would ever use the Geass after that first time.

Lelouch CAN'T end up like Light. Light's a sociopath, as I have said multiple times. There's something fundamentally distorted in his brain. He lacks a conscience entirely. You can't BECOME a sociopath (at least if you can, nobody's discovered it yet), appealing as it is. To attempt to become one would result in massive personality ruptures, and even then it would be incomplete. And even if Lelouch did completely "lose it" and started killing for fun, the root of the problem would still be distinctly personal, and that alone would prevent him from ever truly discarding his conscience.

All said, I'm not trying to bash on you, and I realize as you say that you do this "because your Eng. classes tell you to", that there's evidently an age (and therefore education) difference between us so much of this is probably just me being a total bitch for no real reason.

[pikacheeka.livejournal.com]

Exactly. Anti-heroes are starting to be more prevalent in anime (though they have been around for a while, they are a lot more common now), and I think to continually try to point out how they are all similar and/or copying one another is getting absurd. People put Hei in the same category? WTF?????

At any rate, Light's sickeningly cold reason in the face of murder just proves how WRONG reason without heart can end up. Lelouch continually tries to take that route, but he isn't mad enough to be able to pull it off.

Glad you agree? I was figuring lots of "omgwtf". XD

[saverellawish.livejournal.com]

THANK YOU. This is exactly what I was trying to tell my friend when she brought up Lulu having a god complex like Light after she watched ep 24 and 25.

I kept saying no, that Light and Lelouch aren't even on the same level. Lelouch regrets where as Light thinks hes totally, utterly and perfectly right, and doesn't care who he cuts down. She came back that he regretted killing L (I think, I remember properly), but she kept saying how similar they were.

Lulu doesn't have a god complex, I honestly believe that, and like I said in my earlier post, even if he does have one its not even on the same level compared to Light's. It was driving me crazy how she kept rebuking everything I said, just because I couldn't explain myself properly, with this insane logic of hers that she knows Psychology and I don't, I don't even know what she was thinking at the time, it was an online conversation, but she just sounding so condescending, and the way she explained her reasoning for it, sounded as if she was right and I was wrong, I know she never means to sound this way, but jeez, she drives me crazy).

I am totally making her read this. Not kidding here.

[pikacheeka.livejournal.com]

Speaking of which, I still owe you a response to the comment you left on my stupidly long Allelujah post in the G00 community. XD I thought your name seemed familiar.

Does Light actually regret killing L? And even if he does, it seems more likely that he regretted killing the one person he ever found a worthy adversary in than actually regretting killing HIM, if that makes any sense. L was an obstacle, but he also made life interesting for Light. To finally have him gone is both a relief and a let-down, because suddenly he has no contestant, nobody that he feels he has to really prove himself to (because everyone else is pathetic and comes nowhere near his intelligence, at least until he meets M and N).

Lulu has a slight god complex, as does any teenage boy you give any ounce of power to. Anybody with a brother who recently learned to drive would know that. Yea, not comparing that to Lulu's power, because I know that's possibly even more absurd than Lulu=Light, but people who live their whole lives feeling powerless will take a mile if they're given an inch. Then get excited over it. Then be a royal pain in the ass about it. But the moment his power got out of control he panicked and wished he'd never had it. I can't imagine such a thought even crossing Light's mind. -_-

[saverellawish.livejournal.com]

Very, very true. I guess thats why Lulu's so much likable, even with his slight god complex. His conscious is what was separates him from Light (thank the heavens for that).

I don't know if Light actually regrets killing L. I haven't much of Death Note (and have little desire to), and am going off what little I've seen and what my friend has told me (since she was obsessed for awhile). She comes up with some weird theories sometimes, so I wouldn't take that as being truth or not... (She tried to tell me today that Nunnally's butterfly necklace, shown here

http://community.livejournal.com/code_geass/562869.html#cutid1

, is like or looks like Rollo's locket, I was like ...)

Oh, an I do know whats its like with a brother who knows how to drive -_- I absolutely have zero desire to obtain my driver's license, and am therefore taking it very slowly (17 here, people are always shocked and look at me like I'm stupid for not wanting it). My 13 year old brother can drive circles around me, and he loves to point it out too.

[aeri-s.livejournal.com]

Anyways, someone mentioned it before, the idea that Lelouch is 'childish'. I think that he is indeed childish - he simply has the brains, and with the Geass, the means, to pursue what he wants.

On Raito and Lelouch, we have someone who, within the first chapter, declares "I will be the God of this new world!" (I just checked this too >_>). Lelouch is someone who is pursuing his own happiness, and the happiness of the one person he really truly cares for. At the end of Season 1, we have C.C. going how he was searching for that bit of happiness every human wants. Not to...take over the world. Also, Raito has to be insane. I just scanned through the first chapter of DN, and he's smiling very happily while talking about killing people. The only time he showed regret was after the second person he killed. Lelouch, however, /realises/ what he's doing, quite starkly at times. He regrets it. I think if he had some other option, and could rationally think it through at all times (i.e. when he's not under emotional shock), and if any other option had presented itself to him, he would not go on killing sprees. I'll argue that his episode 1 commands are purely because of mental stress >_> Also, as for other things, he's forcing himself to accept them as necessary. It's something that has to happen, to take down his father and to build a new world with happiness for his sister. Not...I'm going to kill people, because if you have this power you just have to try it, and so, because I'm bored, I'll proceed to take over the world.

Back to how he is childish. I feel that Lelouch lacks the maturity that he perhaps should have. He's a genius, he's an amazing chess player, he has a very strong wish. However, this is ultimately for himself. Not for Nunally - he's never asked her 'Do you mind that I'm going around, and people are dying, so that you can be happy?' He's held onto this wish of revenge since he was a child - a reason for living, it's carried over to adolescence. Also, his emotional maturity. He is killing people. Take Shirley's father as an example. Until the impact of his actions hit him, he didn't care that people had died. Well, I suppose it's the same for most people - to be affected more by people you know (or love), but to just have complete disregard for the others? I think that's quite childish.

[aeri-s.livejournal.com]

He's also more prone to act on his emotions than logic. He is, first of all, riding an emotional roller coaster 24/7 - happens when your sister's blind and crippled and you really want to kill your father. (Which is why it's interesting, R2 Ep 1. when he has neither of those, how calm and /bored/ he is.) We see this with Shirley - logically, to Geass the person you love into forgetting you, and losing the protection that you may have had into her /not/ telling others that you were Zero, isn't quite sound. Comparison to Raito here. Raito would've easily taken Shirley, and used her into a chess piece. Raito is also...insane. SO moving on. He geassed her, because he harboured strong feelings for her, and wanted her to live happily. I don't think he even considered that there were better options at that moment.

But then we have Euphie. I think, at that point, he had quite honestly lost it. He hadn't wanted to Geass her. But a Geass with such a command and such a result? That's hard to take. Here, I'm torn three ways. One is that he did it because she wouldn't have been able to live with herself afterwards. Another is that he was thinking that he could use her sacrifice - It had already gone past a point of no return, he would not waste her life. Or maybe, as has been said so many times already, power corrupts.
But again, I don't think he was thinking when he did it. He had conflicted interests - Euphie, and Nunally. He acted on instinct, on his immediate reactions. But maybe I should go and rewatch those episodes before I talk, because I'm certain details have gone fuzzy. But after this whole thing, he goes and cries (to/with) C.C. Maybe he's growing up here - he's slowly realising that life is not just a game of chess - it's a game of chess with sacrifices that /hurt/. It's not chess, where if you must sacrifice even a queen for checkmate (Which I would like to see as the season end~) it doesn't hurt you. You've won, and that's that.

And...I have rambled. Of course, I'm also looking at this from an immature point of view, since I'm really not the most...mature person.

[shojokakumeii00.livejournal.com]

I think for the most part I'd be reiterating things other people have said, but just to throw in my 2cents:

I don't think you could classify Lelouch as insane, he's certainly got some points where he's had a borderline-breakdown of sorts but he always holds it together pretty well. I also don't think you *can't* consider him an anti-hero: regardless of hero/villain alignment, Lelouch is the epitome of the anti-hero by traditional standards: he's physically weak, not particularly adept at direct combat (separate from physical weakness since KMF piloting skills =! physical ability), and he functions on a "questionable" moral paradigm.

As for the maturity issue, I think Lelouch has rather immature motives (revenge and creating a utopia for his sister, very crude and idealistic at the same time) but his moral paradigm is more mature in that he adopts a utilitarian viewpoint--the ends justify the means--in general, but at the same time would prefer to minimize morally 'abhorrent' things (like causing unnecessary civilian casualties, etc, although I can see how you could argue that the only reason he's so adamant about not targeting civilians could relate to the image he needs to create for the Order in order to gain sufficient public support, I'm more inclined to believe he's more personally opposed to it given his general motives of disliking the the-weak-can-suck-it attitude of Britannia in general).

Suzaku's the exact opposite, his motives and means are rather mature (wanting to change things for the better through proper channels and to atone for a past sin, half realistic half idealistic depending on what part you're looking at--realistic in that proper channels is usually the right choice for that sort of thing but idealistic in thinking that Britannia will change so easily, etc) but his moral paradigm is profoundly immature, probably moreso than Lelouch's motives even (in my opinion at least), since he can't seem to recognize some of the obvious hypocrisy of his moral attitude (where as Lelouch recognizes it and just tries not to care, writing it off as necessary whether he likes it or not) and how ineffective his means are in achieving his goal with that attitude. (Eh, I'm sure someone will find some serious issues with that analysis, I haven't spent as much time on Suzaku as Lelouch analysis-wise).

On the Zero-as-an-alternate-identity idea, I think it's clear that Zero is 'another person' from Lelouch, though how much of a separate identity (multiple personality disorders or just a persona) is debatable, I think the current evidence is more supportive of Zero being a public persona. However, it's an interesting subject to examine if you take a look at the language differences between Zero and Lelouch (I didn't even notice it until I was working on a couple scenes from CG for a project in my Japanese Linguistics class). Just looking at pronoun usage, Lelouch uses 'ore' but when he's Zero he switches to 'watashi' and generally speaks more formally (albeit usually very directly/strongly, which usually doesn't mesh well but somehow that's the impression I got). Toward the end of S1 in a couple of Lelouch's soliloquies (especially the one at the end of 23) he seems to be speaking in a sort of 'mixed' style, with a slightly deeper tone (not quite as drastic as with Zero) and speaking more formally than he usually does but not so much as he does when acting as Zero. It kind of makes me wonder if the two personas (Lelouch and Zero) will become more enmeshed in R2 (Lelouch does seem to be speaking in a slightly lower tone in general so far, though that could mean a lot of things).

[neltis-screi.livejournal.com]

all of these have prolly been said already, but here I go anyway.. XD


even though people are annoyed by the Light-Lelouch comparison, I actually think it's inevitable. they did gain the same type of power. They're both smart. they both use wits to pursue what they want. (and the fact that Lelouch was introduced at the same period Light was). Though, after those, the likeness ends.

the humaneness is where the biggest difference lies.

I had wondered how Light turned out to be the absolute inhuman he was. I just couldn't grasp how one could turn away from everything else when he in fact grew up having all the love anyone could ever ask. I guess that's the downside of being perfect. you seek perfection in something else and it corrupts you in the end. xD

Lelouch, on the other hand, shows that life really is not made up of just black and white. He values the people close to him and he falls in a heap during the times his loved ones are involved. He might be called evil with the way he manipulates lives like chess pieces but as bad as that sounds like, he has desires. anyone he doesn't care about who is in the way, he is willing to eliminate.

I see Light as the protagonist/antagonist. While I see Lelouch more of a protagonist, but somewhat antagonist. Light might be insane, but in fact, he's just rock solid with his beliefs and is intelligent. Lelouch might be seen as insane, but he's not, he's just greatly affected by circumstances.


We cannot really blame anyone for being what they are; for doing what they do. Something led them to live the way they had. good or evil, right or wrong.. it's never easy to pinpoint.


I really root for Lelouch but seeing him fall desperately in the end won't shock me. I just hope he ends decently. His character is simply the best ever. <3

[(Anonymous)]

Guys, Think KANE from C&C 3 tiberium wars to Kane's Wrath!!

[torque2100.livejournal.com]

Can I just say that I disagree with people comparing Lelouch to Light, when V is a much better comparison. Both of them spread chaos in order to bring down a corrupt and evil regime, both of them gained the power they needed as a result of the regime's actions. However, Lulu is a more human version of V. Whereas V is utterly remorseless and will not hesitate to kill and maim for the cause, Lelouch is does feel guilt over his actions. As far as being insane, I think Lelouch is straddling that line between genius and insanity.

[powercorrupts.livejournal.com]

Oooh, now there's a comparison I like (I really think that both Lelouch and Light have a great deal better comparisons to make, if one looks outside the scope of recent animes - when one compares either to western anti-heroes or villains, or to older anime anti-heroes or villains, there are way closer fits). They also have their personal and somewhat systematic revenge in common - both of them at some point take time out from bringing down the regime to go after the object of that revenge.

[torque2100.livejournal.com]

Exactly, and they are closer than they at first seem. Try to imagine what Lelouch would be like if Nunally had died the night his mother was assassinated. He would be a cold, twisted individual, completely devoid of remorse, for whom the ends justify the means. Just like the comic book V. He would not have hesitated to put a bullet in Shirley's brain, he would feel no remorse for the innocents who die in his crusade.

Part of the reason he has those "what have I done" moments in S1 is because he realizes that now he has to go home and face his sister.