I have a question about episode nine...

[destructo-bot.livejournal.com]

It involves chess, and since it also involves ep. 9 plot points, I'm putting it in a cut. That's right, right? I've never posted here before. :D

I'm pretty sure you can't put yourself in check. By moving his king like that, didn't Schneizel intentionally put himself in check, and thus break the rules? Or is it excused because by having his king next to Lelouch's, Lelouch was also in check? But I thought you weren't allowed to put yourself in check even if it was to put the other person in check/checkmate... See, this is why I'm confused.

Someone who's better with the rules of chess can help, yes? This is seriously bugging me.

Oh, and I'm not sure what else to tag this as, sorry. I know, I fail at life. D:

Comments

[bellumina.livejournal.com]

Mm. From what I know, you can't put yourself in check~?

[lulu-quality.livejournal.com]

I think it's just a symbolic move on Schneizel's part to gauge Lelouch's reaction. You can't do that in chess.

[haunter]

Yeah, you can't put yourself in check, as far as I know.

[spleener.livejournal.com]

It's a Sunrise show. I highly doubt they were aware such a rule existed, and even if they did, they probably preferred going with that scene over paying attention to that rule.

I recall an /a/ thread where someone looked at the chess board in R2 episode 1 and figured out that Lulu didn't actually have him in checkmate, going off the board as it was.

[heartlaced.livejournal.com]

I'm fairly certain you can't do that, unless you aren't aware that you're putting yourself in check. And... I dunno, I always thought that the king couldn't take any of the other pieces or put another king in check? Or maybe that's just because it's rare that he'd get an oportunity to do that where he wouldn't be in check.

I'm not sure, either; sorry I wasn't a lot of help XD;;

[zerorevenge.livejournal.com]

No, the King can take other pieces. But to have a King Check another King is suicide, since next turn, the opposing King can take the Attacking King.

[destructo-bot.livejournal.com]

Hmm... so it was basically just typical Sunrise dramatic license?

Well, that makes me feel better... now I know I'm not going crazy. Still, it kinda bugs me that they'd do that... but whatever. That was a great scene. XP

[konart.livejournal.com]

No you can't

More of It you can't put your King closer than 1 square to another King.

But we saw it from the very 1st EP. this is not chess we knew...

Why?

There is no way chess could be like this. =)

[dragonlover58.livejournal.com]

There are different rules to play chess in the Geass universe. :b I've accepted it and moved on.

[saverellawish.livejournal.com]

So true.

[rainbow-cnxn.livejournal.com]

That was totally an illegal move. I'm guessing it was done as a combination of seeing how Lelouch deals with having victory handed out to him, seeing how he deals with hard-and-fast rules being broken, and gauging his overall character.

Chess really is just a metaphor for war. Schneizel broke the rules of what could be done. His move into check is akin to Suzaku's (surprise!) presence in battles at Shinjuku and Narita. Situations like these are where we see Lelouch falter most.

[glenngunnerzero.livejournal.com]

It was an illegal move, I think, but this is SCREW THE RULES I HAVE MONEY Britannia. Although that is 1 thing I hate about japan is that they don't really research such things, especially when the main character is like the CHESS MASTER or great Guilty Gear player (I'm looking at you Kohsaka) or some crap like that.

[sephysarkon.livejournal.com]

/comment hijack

YGO! Abridged ftw!

~the seph

[rainbow-cnxn.livejournal.com]

+1 for Genshiken. ♥

[tenshi789.livejournal.com]

YOU WIN THE INTERNET!

[luinthoron.livejournal.com]

I actually screamed quite loudly at the screen when I saw this. Sunrise fails at chess...

[nokiirat.livejournal.com]

i'm pretty sure that's why lelouch was angry. they knew they were going to be at a draw and schneizel gave him a win by breaking the rules. lelouch backed off, refusing the win in that manner.

i doubt that the writers wrote that scene without knowing the rules.

[destructo-bot.livejournal.com]

But since you CAN'T do that... doesn't that... not count? But Lelouch played it anyway, as if it were a completely legitimate move. That's why I was confused. :[

[rainbow-cnxn.livejournal.com]

That's not the point.

I'm thinking that, in a way, Lelouch sees resorting to rules in that context as a sign of weakness. Lelouch is awfully proud when it comes to people that have a great impact on him, and Schneizel is the one person whose cunning Lelouch holds as high as his own. Schneizel turned the tables on him and made it a battle of pride instead of one of ability. And Lelouch refused to swallow the free, hollow victory.

[nokiirat.livejournal.com]

I think that that was the point. That Lelouch wouldn't accept a win that came from an illegit source; ie. Schneizel losing by the default. Schneizel comments that he learns a little of Zero's personality by that move. He says that the Emperor would have taken the win (even if it came from that illegal move.) It wouldn't be part of Lelouch's personality to say, 'you can't do that, i win'. He would have tried to think his way around it (if Nina hadn't gone nuts on him).

Hope that makes sense.

[destructo-bot.livejournal.com]

But what he was objecting to was the easy win provided from his pawn being able to take out the king; it wasn't necessarily the fact that his move was illegal, but rather because Schneizel was at a huge tactical disadvantage with that move (i.e. he was treating it as if it were legal).

Am I making sense...? Geez, I'm confusing myself again... >_>

[sevoth.livejournal.com]

The pawn really bugged me too. I mean, it was a suicide move with or without the pawn, so it's extraneous. Or is it supposed to be symbolic? (Because you know, check by pawn is a lot lousier than check by king)

[destructo-bot.livejournal.com]

Okay, I figured out a better way to say it: Lelouch was not upset because he was taking a victory from an *illegal* move, but rather because it was just a sucky, suicidal move. The fact that it's against the rules was never even brought into the equation.

Does that make more sense? Gah, I hope so. @_#

[saverellawish.livejournal.com]

What nokiirat said. I'm pretty sure Sunrise would do some research. I mean they are a production company so I'm sure if they don't so research before hand for shows they make they probably get alot of annoying hate mail from fans.

But even if thats not the case, the Geass universe is meant to be different from our own, so its possible the rule doesn't apply. Which I'll accept and get over. I'm just glad Schneizel got an actual scene for once rather than a clip, even if he is a cheater.

[zerorevenge.livejournal.com]

From what I know in Check, Schnizel put both himself & lelouch into Check with moving the King next to the other King.

Lelouch's next move must remove his own King from Check. Why he didn't just have his own King take Schnizel's King made no sense to me, since that would have defeated Schnizel.

Further More, Schnizel shouldn't have been able to put his King there because that put himself into Check - which a player cannot do.

[gilfaenen.livejournal.com]

That's exactly it. Schneizel was GIVING UP to Lelouch, saying "here, you win." But since he had broken the rules to do that, Lelouch felt that it wasn't a meaningful victory.

Note that Schneizel says afterwards that he's "figured out a bit of Zero's personality" and then compares him to the emperor, stating that Curly would've taken the victory, even though it was illegal.

Or Code Geass chess has different rules |D;;

[arence-heart.livejournal.com]

Forget about breaking the rules to test Lulu for a sec, could we interpret this as "Here, have a free Suzaku"? Suzaku could get some pretty bad ideas about Schneizel losing him on purpose, technically, he sold him out.

[tenshi789.livejournal.com]

With the whole SUNRISE CBF RESEARCHING THING I think that's wrong- they knew about the three-repetition thing didn't they?

It's an illegal move, but it's not like he can't physically move the piece (like online chess argh xD). I think it was merely a symbolic thing, Lelouch was like "Ok it's a draw" but Schneizel used his mindraep illegal tactics to put Lelouch in an awkward position and humiliate him. He didn't accept so he backed off, which signified his weakness. But if he did take the game, then it showed how he disregards the rules to win no matter what.

Or that's how I see it xD

[dragonmists753.livejournal.com]

I agree, that Schneizel's move was to put Lelouch in an awkward position and humiliate him. If Lelouch had taken Schneizel's king it would have been a hollow victory because it didn't come about from HIS maneuvering. Schneizel would have effectively handed it to him and he would have accepted it. Meaning in the manipulative game outside of the physical chess board Lelouch would have lost because he would have put himself under Schneizel's sway, submitted to him if you will. He wants to win, but he is unwilling to do so under any other terms but his own. If anything, I think this shows us Lelouch's pride the most. And I think Schneizel saw that.

hmmm...meaning that he doesn't think the emperor has any pride and will win at all costs? disrespectful son isn't he?)

gah! hope that made sense.

[tenshi789.livejournal.com]

lol I don't think any of the children really like the emperor much do they?

Chess + Geass = mind explode

[mei-yi.livejournal.com]

He could have just (loudly) pointed out that what he was doing was illegal, thus he'd be forced to retract the move and they could just keep playing.

And now we know why Schneizel used to always beat Lulu - he's a cheat. ^_^

[tuffy77.livejournal.com]

Face it guys, Sunrise was just being lazy.

On another note, can you draw in chess?