A different sort of knight

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I'm back with 6 icons but mostly just pleading for more C.C./Lelouch fics but probably not the kind you may be thinking.






About number 2, I just kept getting the "Alive" song stuck in my head after viewing that image in the manga. I dunno.

I'm especially pleased with the C.C./Lelouch one and only wish more people would latch onto the idea of C.C. as Lelouch's knight so there can be fics. It makes sense when you think that every Britannian princess ends up with a knight to defend them to the death. Cornelia and Guilford. Euphemia and Suzaku. Why not Lelouch and C.C.? The boy is totally a Britannian princess. Seriously though, since Lelouch seems, at times, loathe to personally dirty his hands with blood, C.C. is a good resource to have backing him. I know most people see this dynamic opposite because of the whole girl to guy standard but so far Geass has shown C.C. to be in a much better position to protect Lelouch than he her. Also, C.C. kicks ass and makes a much better knight than those other posers. I kid, I kid.

Comments

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Too tired to write out a full counter-refute or something so let's see if I can't try something close.

Basically I see Kallen as people have mentioned below, a pawn. She's useful and a necessary weapon in battle but her position to Lelouch pales in comparison to C.C.

As for C.C., no I don't see her as the same style knight as the other relationships (which were mainly a tiny joke), mostly because her "liege" is a prince and nowhere near as desiring of a knight. To me, the knight/prince thing is greatly based on sole devotion to a cause rather than a person. C.C. is devoted to the Geass. Lelouch is simply the vessel for this cause so her loyalty is extreme. I also relate her more as Lelouch's knight because of the growing bond and trust between the two. It's something Lelouch's other pawns just don't have. Not that C.C. can't end up betraying Lelouch since not all knights remain loyal when given alternatives to protecting their cause. This is less of the fantasy and noble idea of a knight and more of the "live by the sword" aspect since C.C. seems no stranger to danger or pain. I believe there is much potential for her to become a "knight" to Lelouch. It will also require Lelouch to become slightly dependent, which I believe he already is since he's still learning how to be a rebel leader, but in more of a trusting C.C. to back him way. It could happen as they learn more about each other and open up or it could not. It's fun to speculate. It's also likely C.C. will become more devoted to Lelouch but still determined to see that Lelouch continues to live up to his purpose.

I probably still failed to explain myself but hey it's more serious than the above. Hmm, should have used this version in the actual post. Ah retrospect.

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

It's something Lelouch's other pawns just don't have.

Not true. The series is currently focusing on his relationship with C.C., which of necessity is somewhat more open than his relationship with his other "pawns" (simply because she knows that he's Zero by default), but she is not the only one he's bonded with so far. In episodes 9 he dropped some clues that lead me to believe he subconsciously wants Kallen to figure out who he is, and in 10 he treated her on a more equal level than any of the other Black Knights. She doesn't have the insight into him that C.C. does, but it's pretty clear that she's not going to be "just another pawn" for long.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Ah this is true. I suppose I am treating Kallen unfairly out of bias. He did test her loyalty in 12 when he asked if she wanted to know his identity. That seemed to imply he already knew she would not request it. I guess my only legitimate argument with Kallen being Lelouch's night would be that she only knows Zero. This could make her Zero's knight but there is an idolizing there that makes things much more intimate between the two, at least on her part. I'm sure knights may love their masters and hold a great deal of respect for them, but I don't think they would be as affected by the jealousy/almost longing Kallen is. It seems Kallen may fall for Zero more as the story progresses, which kind of complicates the knight/prince dynamic since it holds to some level of detachment as well. I think or at least would enjoy it more if C.C. and Lelouch built about their relationship but remained straddling that line between devotion and something deeper.

Though I will say that C.C. did seem almost jealous of Shirley in 12.

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

I agree that at the moment, Kallen only knows Zero, but I can't see that going on that way for more than a few more episodes. When she does connect Zero to Lelouch, she'll be significantly less worshipful.

I didn't perceive C.C. as jealous in 12; she seemed more worried that Shirley might distract him, and perhaps a little intrigued. But then, I'm not sure C.C. is entirely capable of more complex human emotions related to relationships at the moment, and that includes jealousy.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Why do you think that? I know Lelouch tends to irk her, but I think that's only because he specifically tries to get on her nerves. Once the initial awkwardness and "zomg it was you, you bastard!!!" is done with, it probably won't be much different. She admires what he does either way.

That's probably all it was, but the direction seemed like it was more or less joking/teasing about the idea. With the window scene. Then again, that probably has multiple layers of interpretation, depending on how you want to see it. When she's addressing Lelouch about the tickets though, it's very much a straight-forward "don't forget what you're here for."

I don't think C.C. is that detached, despite not being human. Not naturally. Her feelings of sorrow and pain and wanting to understand why she is the way she is are too great for that. I think it's just a persona she's created for herself based on the suffering of the past. There's plenty room for more development as far as that goes.

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

Well, finding out that someone you assumed had nothing in common with you is actually a dorky schoolkid that you go to classes with will change your perception of them regardless of what you think of said dorky schoolkid. In addition to that, in Stage 9, Kallen made it clear that she's willing to take Lelouch to task when he says something she finds unacceptable.

And I don't think that C.C. is completely incapable of human emotions, just that she's not really up-to-date on them at the moment. I certainly expect to see her develop more feelings of all sorts as the show goes on--I just don't think romantic jealousy is in her emotional vocabulary at the moment.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Like I said, awkwardness. But people usually find a way to get over that stage in these stories. It might even make them closer. Though, idolizing might not be quite the right word. It is hero worship but once you learn your heroes are mortal, you may be willing to take a greater stand in how things are done but that doesn't change your view of them deep down. Unless they are an asshole or a coward in reality. She should still look up to him as her leader.

You have a point there.

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

Oh, I do think that Kallen figuring out that Lelouch is Zero will eventually make them closer. I'm just protesting the idea that because she hero worships Zero at this point in canon, she'll never be capable of being his "knight" or having an equal relationship with him. On the former matter...well, Guilford seems to admire Cornelia a lot, and I suspect the same is true of Suzaku and Euphemia. Given Kallen's more no-nonsense approach to Lelouch, I expect once she makes the necessary connection, she'll be able to transform her hero worship into a more complex and beneficial admiration similar to that of the other knight/prince(ss) pairs.

Whereas C.C.'s relationship with Lelouch is a whole different beast--complex in its own way, but I can't see her as being his knight. It's more like one is the player of a game who's discovered that their most prized piece is actually a living, breathing being who can offer them more than they expected. The catch is, they both think they're the player and the other is the piece.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

In order to better explain my take on this in a purely theoretical fic potential way, I'm going to insert an opinion. I know, you're probably thinking "Haven't we been doing this the whole time?" XD I would say that Kallen's potential to develop deeper feelings for Lelouch cancels out my personal view of the knight/prince dynamic because the fic type I prefer and was hoping to encourage had I better worded myself are the instances when the knight and prince are close but unable to quite bridge that gap. I use the term "knight/prince" to refer to a relationship where one character devotes him/herself to another due to the abstract ideal I mentioned before. It's true that C.C. is not in that position as of yet but I think it would be a fun idea to explore if coupled with the detachment and personal objectives she hopes to achieve. As far as the hero worship, it was brought up because of it's likelihood to lead to something more emotional. Not always the case but still possible. I think Kallen's personality and attitude toward Lelouch/Zero and the general nature of Sunrise series hint heavily at such a development.

I did not mean to imply that Kallen will never be equal to Lelouch. She's a very important part of his goal; that's why he chose her for the only Nightmare that rivals Lancelot. His belief in her will most likely increase through the series. I think the best way to settle both these points would be to agree that Kallen could offer one form of knighthood, one more pure, and C.C. could offer another, one with something to gain. Knights don't always have to be selfless to serve, despite the usual fairy tale versions.

I know many enjoy the chess references and for good reason, but I wanted this interpretation to be outside that realm and focus more on literary motifs.

I also agree with dragonsquee and say your analogy or Lelouch/C.C. is something impressive. It also exemplifies exactly why I think her taking on a "knight"-like role without her realizing it would be so much fun. I like complicated scenarios, especially when they involve the unconscious feelings of characters. Not to mention the ulterior motive aspect I mentioned above. In other words, I just want to poke around with an idea that's f'ed up.

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

Oh, heh, I don't disagree with those possibilities in fic. I agree that C.C. would have a more...intellectual relationship with Lelouch, and probably one with darker aspects. It's one reason I'm hesitant about a romance between them in canon, because it can be really hard to pull that sort of thing off. It reminds me an awful lot of the relationship between Saber and Shirou in Fate/Stay night, where the anime did really drop the ball in the later development of their relationship. Sigh.

I initially took up a debate stance on your comments because I thought you were describing the relationships as they are/will be in canon, in which case it struck me as odd to leave Kallen out of a discussion of Lelouch's knightly needs. But as a fic idea, yes, C.C. taking on a role as a sort of knight could be very interesting indeed. My fic-plans for Geass so far mostly involve Suzaku/Euphemia (with a side of Jeremiah/Villetta), but some C.C./Lelouch along those lines is definitely something to consider.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Heh when it comes to fiction and the like, I very rarely work with pure canon. I prefer the creative freedom of the canonically possible; it's like milk and honey to a slash fan. And I really should be more fair to Kallen. I just wish I could see more development of her character in the series and less time spent on "random" scenes. I apologize for imposing my view of her onto Lelouch's earlier in this discussion since my interest in her is solely based on her Knightmare for now.

More Jeremiah/Villetta would definitely achieve much approval. They're so hot together.

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

Personally, I tend to start out from an appreciation of canon relationships, or relationships that seem likely in canon, and then branch out into slash and other unlikely scenarios. (Although slash with Milly and Nina is canon in this show, but I digress.)

I think Kallen got some development relatively early in the show when we were given glimpses of her strengths and weaknesses, and then again in Stage 9 when we saw her motivation, but since then she's been relegated to "token ass-kicker" aside from a few scenes about her feelings for Zero. I'd like to see more about her actually doing stuff, yes, but I'm willing to wait--the show does have a lot of ground to cover, and at the moment it seems to be focusing on some Black Knight politics and the Lelouch/Shirley plot.