I don't know if this has been discussed before

[evrything-burns.livejournal.com]

I don't know if this has been discussed before, but does anyone else, like me, think that maybe, maybe, Lelouch's feeling for Nunnally surpass those of an ordinary brother? Maybe I've just read too many mangas that end up involving incest, but it just seems that Lelouch is going the extra mile for her. Any thoughts?

EDIT: I suppose I should have stated my case better with evidence rather than turning it into a free for all where people think I'm pulling this out of my butt 'cause I have no problems with incest (and yeah, maybe it's because I don't have any brothers) in animanga.



Yes, I admit, it's not unnatural to want to protect your family. After the death of his mother, Lelouch had only Nunnally by his side and because of her injuries, she required his attention. For the longest time, I didn't think anything of his devotion to her, but after certain events, it just makes everything come a little more into perspective.

I care about my family, and tons of people really love their siblings. I'm not heartless and would let anyone in my family die without trying to help them, but if I had Lelouch's power, I would fight for the innocent as much as my family. He claims to fight for the rest of the world, but deep down it's all for Nunnally's sake. Without her, he probably wouldn't do what he is.

In the 6th Picture Drama, Milly teased that Lelouch and Nunnally's love was beautiful but dangerous (even if she was joking, there were obviously grounds to make this assumption).

In Episode 21, when Nunnally and Euphemia were talking, Nunnally made the comment that when they were children, the two girls used to fight over who would marry Lelouch.

In Episode 23, as he fired the shot that would ultimately kill Euphemia, he admitted that she was his "first love". So he obviously had, at some point, stronger than typical feelings for his sisters.

But the turning point for me, at least, was in Episode 11 of R2. If anyone recalls, Xingke and Tianzi obviously loved each other, despite the age difference (and if people are going to spazz about the incest claims, what about the pedophilic feelings between them? He is a heck of a lot older than she is). So, not knowing whether to force Tianzi into a political marriage, or allow her to be with the one she loved, he called Shirley who told him "Love is power. Falling in love with someone gives you great power. Thinking about this person every single day...jumping into waterfalls and screaming the person's name," and when she asks, "Don't you have someone like that Lulu? To dedicate more than you normally would for someone," he immediately thought of Nunnally with his look of utter realization on his face.

There is such thing as being attracted to your siblings, and it's something some people can grow out of. Whether it's "penis envy" or whatever you call it, some girls are attracted to their fathers, some boys to their mothers, some children to their siblings. So for that to be in anime, something that dips in every taboo available, pretty well, it's not completely impossible. There is such thing as being attracted to your siblings, and it's something some people can grow out of. Whether it's "penis envy" or whatever you call it, some girls are attracted to their fathers, some boys to their mothers, some children to their siblings. So for that to be in anime, something that dips in every taboo available, pretty well, it's not completely impossible.

Comments

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I will say it's complicated. Love is always complicated with Lelouch because he doesn't understand it on the same level as most people. Perhaps this is why he is so attached/doting and borderline obsessive toward those he cares about the most. I think Lelouch needing Shirley to explain the Tianzi situation to him proves this much, as does his not fully comprehending the level of Rolo's obsession/devotion and how it contributed to Shirley's death and later Rolo's plotting to kill Nunnally. Love is not entirely a tangible thing to the boy who pretends so badly that he wants to be on his own but panics and even reaches psychotic levels at the thought of losing those close to him.

It is canon that Lelouch loved Euphemia. Again, you have to be able to qualify his definition of love since he is the one who says it. So it can easily be argued Lelouch loves Nunnally in a similar and possibly deeper and more intense way.

As to whether it's the same incest that's the new shiny of recent mangas, that would take a larger degree of awareness on Lelouch's part, and I think the boy is still mostly struggling with the concept, as his dealings with Shirley, and in part Kallen, show.

[faye-naruse.livejournal.com]

Here, here! I really enjoyed reading your comment :)

[evrything-burns.livejournal.com]

First off, this is an interpretation I'm saying I noticed. I'm in no way suggesting it's cannon, or that everyone else should agree, I'm just pointing it out that it's been hinted at.

And no, I was just making the comment that not everyone would go to that length for their family, but could for someone they honestly, truly love. It's been the source of many peoples' fights and rebellions in fiction and non. It's not a foreign concept. It's not like I'm saying, "No, there's no way he could be doing this just because she's his sister and he has a strong sense of loyalty to his family." I'm just saying that, as far as anime goes, doing this because he could have romantic feelings is as much as possibility as getting together with C.C or Kallen, or anyone.

[blackwhite-rain.livejournal.com]

This is the proof of the flooding incest manga series indeed have a great influence. ^^; Like the "Slash goggles" case.

No, I doubt that Lelouch really thinks in that way. At least, not in canon. He might care for his sister, but he's not a lolicon, nor does he have a sister complex.

[panoptics.livejournal.com]

It doesn't quite seem so, sorry.

Mind, I wouldn't mind at all. _{says the person who is kinda flagrant in the support of Marianne/Euphie OTP}

[rainbow-cnxn.livejournal.com]

FIRST OF ALL: Code Geass is a marketer's wet dream. This series is full of fanbait. For everyone. This includes people who have sibcon goggles on. Admittedly, the subtext is there. If you want to read their interactions as such, you can, and many others do. (See: /a/) However, subtext far from makes it canon. I mean, there's...an awful lotta subtext flying around in the series, but I hardly think that people are falling head over heels for each other like that.

However, this isn't to say that I think that such subtext is only fangirl/fanboy pandering. In fact, I do think that the intensity of Lelouch's relationships with those around him are quite relevant. Remember how Lelouch defines love--"something you give without limit". I absolutely believe that Lelouch loves Nunnally. I absolutely believe that he would go the ends of the world for her and give and give and give for her. However, this doesn't mean that he wants to boink her. Familial love is different from romantic love is different from platonic love. All are real and can be equally intense, though the loves manifest themselves in different ways.

And quite personally, Lelouch is about as close to a clueless virgin as you can get. The boy has no hormones, I swear.

[god-diva.livejournal.com]

At least once in your life you're going to experience something like the love Lulu has for Nunnally. For example, while I'm not usually close to anyone, my mother is the only person whom I love so much I'd jump into lava for. We do everything together, have always been together, go everywhere together, and we both mutually love each other more than we love ourselves. It's almost like we're an old married couple XD but the truth is, we love each other as daughter and mother but more than the usual parent and offspring relationship. It's like a huge mixture of relationships parent/sibling/best friend.

I don't think there's anything weird in their relationship. While it's possible that you can see that Lulu might love Nunnally romantically, I just think that since she's the only one who he believes he has left, he treats her like his whole world. It's cute and creepy at the same time but at least it shows that he's human. If you think about it, he kind of feels the same way he feels about Nunnally with his mother but because his mother is no longer there for him to protect, he's afraid he'll loose Nunnally. Not only that, but the way she was hurt makes him think that if he's not always there, she'll break without him :< More like the other way around here Lulu XD

[mikoto-chan13.livejournal.com]

That was beatifully said, really.

[god-diva.livejournal.com]

Aww, thanks =)

[glenngunnerzero.livejournal.com]

It's not an uncommon archetype from japan however it does take it to another level, though nowhere near as bad as Koi Kaze.

Oh and OATMEAL

[fujiappletan.livejournal.com]

I'm basking in the existence of your post.
(I like taking it as that "something more". But only b/c I love incest ships and Code Geass is riddled with the subtext.)

[kagu-chan.livejournal.com]

I think I'm probably going to end up saying nothing that hasn't already been said by other commenters, but here goes anyway. :( Let's start with a definition.

"Incest": sexual activity between closely related persons.

To say that Lelouch has incestuous feelings for Nunnally is to say that he wants to have sex with her. That's the fact of it.

Now, "love"! Hell if I'm going to define this, but keep in mind two important features of love:

1) Different depths of love exist.
2) "Love" does not necessarily come with "desire".

I can think of several people I would give my life for if it came down to it, because I love them that much. Some of them are family, some bosom friends, one a significant other. This doesn't mean I have the urge to boink them at some point in our 'relationship'. Likewise one can be devoted, heart and soul, to someone (or something) without ever considering taking things to the carnal level.

It's actually pretty... weird? Sad? That nowadays more often than not fandom chooses to perceive close relationships of any kind as leading to or already having a sexual nature. What happened to genfic and friendship? (It's the same IRL, even, which is why you hardly ever see guys letting themselves be open enough with each other as 'bosom friends', for fear of being called gay. But I digress.)

In Lelouch's case? Nunnally is the biggest, and possibly sole reason he holds onto to continue his existence as it is. He is willing to burn the world to the ground and build it up again if only to make it a peaceful world for her sake. He wants her to be happy even if it means leaving her with someone else (e.g. Suzaku). It's not an "I want to be with you forever, body and soul in every way" relationship. It's an "I would give my body and sell my soul to the devil so you could be happy" relationship. And if I'm not mistaken, this reflects Xing Ke's feelings towards Tianzi as well.

This is a form of love, and devotion, and taken to its dark side, obsession. It's not necessarily holier than desire. But it is distinct from desire, and should be remembered as such.

tl;dr Yes, Lelouch's feelings surpass that of many ordinary brothers. No, this does not necessarily an incestuous relationship. Other factors involved such as deliberate teasing on the part of the producers, fan-pandering and everyone's-right-to-ship-what-they-want will be left to other comments. :(b

[quincyarcherluv.livejournal.com]

Thank you!

[ratsandwich.livejournal.com]

Here's to hoping they don't go Lannister on us... Cookies if you get what the hell I'm pointing at. Ick.

I think he's just insanely devoted to her because she's the only family he has left, really. I mean, I'm a twin, and I can get really protective of my sister (or maybe I'm just overly paranoid because my family always watched the New Detectives and other crime shows when I was little and it almost gave me nightmares. I did not just want to tack a 'k' to the start of that.) Sibling bonds are pretty damn deep.
Remember, Nunnally was the one Lelouch is doing this whole revolution for; to make a better world for her to live in. If he didn't love her as much and care about her wellbeing, I don't know where the show would've gone off to, eh?
Plus I'm one of those people who think that big brother/little sister relationships are absolutely adorable in the natural, family sense.