Code Geass R2: NOT LIKE PLANNED

[spleener.livejournal.com]

So I'm surprised this hasn't been posted to the comm yet. I'm sure there are other links on this but I'm going to go ahead and post the ones from Koda's blog:

http://trainwreck.ggkthx.org/2008/08/19/taniguchi-on-geass-not-as-planned/

http://trainwreck.ggkthx.org/2008/08/20/changing-the-time-changing-the-show/

tl;dr- the planned story for R2 had to be scrapped entirely due to the fact that R1 was on a late-night thursday slot and R2 was moved to a prime time Sunday slot, mostly because they couldn't write R2 with the assumption that the audience had seen R1 before. Among other things, the subplots involving Cecile's relationship with Suzaku and Suzaku's connection to Geass (ie why he went catatonic at Kaminejima when the elevator thing activated) were basically dropped, and Rolo was added in.

One should note that this is far from the first time that a show's direction has been influenced by executive meddling, hell, Geass R1 had a lot changed because it was originally slated for a prime time slot and moved to late night, and probably wouldn't have been as good as it wound up being if it weren't for that.

And this is actually a pretty amazing analysis of the situation I just saw posted on /a/:


Rolo is meta as fuck

Rolo is an expression of Taniguchi’s frustration at not being able to develop R2 his way.

Rolo was forced into the story as part of the “re-envisioning” of the show that led to many changes, some of which suck ass. Taniguchi is aware of this. And he is aware of his own situation: forced to work with the damn thing anyway, for the profit of his superiors, no matter how he feels. I’m not making him out to be a great creative mind of a martyr, just noting that he kind of feels a little fucked. Hence, the place of Rolo in the story.

He’s unwanted. Defective. He’s made into what he is because external forces, in this case the Geass cult, decided on it. He does not start out with a will of his own, and his role is to deceive. This is how Taniguchi sees R2: an imperfect creation forced on the viewers, trying too hard to be liked and accepted. No doubt he sees himself as a “disposable rag” at the hands of the executives, and the show as possibly equally forgettable by the viewers. And then, of course, Rolo as the representation of the spirit of R2 kills something that was positive about R1.

So Rolo’s death is both an embodiment of sincerity and deception. On one hand, Rolo accepts his status as a tool but still strives toward what he believes is good in the end. A fairly plain admission by Taniguchi that his work has its failings, that his own capacities are limited, and that in spite of this, he will still try to work around the obstacles and make it good. The very removal of Rolo might even suggest a graudual return to his original plans. But on the other hand, the scene is highly emotionally manipulative, and a decent amount of effort was put into it, in spite of possible dislike for the character. And people seemed to drink it up. That in itself is a fuck-what-you-think-you’re-going-to-watch-this-shit-anyway at the viewer.


Personally I agree with the idea that Taniguchi's been doing his best in spite of being fucked over by the execs, it seems like people are finding out he was pissed off about this a year ago just now and assuming he's still pissed off and has basically been phoning in all of R2 and therefore every story development they disagree with is due to that. I for one like the current R2, and I honestly think Taniguchi and the rest of the team have gotten over what happened and are happy with the R2 they've created.

That said, I'd love to see the original plan for R2 in some way, perhaps as a manga?

Comments

[kadekmoment.livejournal.com]

. . . are there any camera shots of that chapter or anything, because wow. And I thought that was supposed to be the cutesy manga.

[rebmastu.livejournal.com]

That's just a rumor based on forged documents.

[kaurin.livejournal.com]

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2008-08-20/new-fullmetal-alchemist-tv-anime-series-confirmed

[lark-aero.livejournal.com]

Well, this finally explains why EVERYONE DIES.

[lavaliere]

Nope, it's confirmed.

[rebmastu.livejournal.com]

Hahaha, great. Then those 2chan documents were a total red herring, huh?

[lark-aero.livejournal.com]

A lot of times, it's better that a series ends where it ends (just as planned!) instead of forcing itself to continue for more profit/etc.; the story's integrity and originality are risked.

With R2, I didn't even realize that something was wrong. I really thought everything was
intentional, and I still think it is. So that makes me wonder too, what was the original pitch supposed to be like.

I just feel sorry for Taniguchi and his characters, because ultimately it's his own vision that's getting stepped-on. A lot of fans are scapegoating and sticking blame onto easy-target characters. But characters are puppets for the written (epic/fail) story-line ಠ__ಠ

[gdmcrjunkie.livejournal.com]

I really, really wanted my Suzaku-Geass explanation. *whine*

[rainbow-cnxn.livejournal.com]

Heh. I guess all our fears half a year ago about the new timeslot came true. I confess myself a bit annoyed, and I hope that Taniguchi and co. will be able to finagle some sort of resolution to Suzaku's (now nonexistent) geass subplot. Hell, I'll even accept a retcon at this point. Whatever.

I think we can all agree that R2 has...stumbled at parts, but it's been pretty good recently. And I think that no matter how eff'ed up the plot gets, the fanbase is large enough and smart enough to put our minds together to collectively explain away the incongruencies and...funny characterization of this season.

I really want to see the original plot, too. For my own curiosity's sake, I want to know the original explanation for Suzaku's hax, and really--Cecile's relationship with Suzaku? Lolwut? Now that just makes me feel like a gossip whore. =3 And for that matter, what's with the lady with the motorcycle? I'm guessing that got cut, too?

Anyways. I think the main message I'd like to convey is SCREW YOU, SUNRISE. Stop messing around with your directors. Just because of this, I now sorta want Taniguchi to pull an Anno, just to shit with them.

[deadums.livejournal.com]

Aw, it's sad that some questions posed by R1 won't get answered. I mean, does this also get rid of CC and Marianne's connection, as well? Sort of shafts the audience that watched it before, but explains SO MUCH of how things have played out so far.

Meh, I can't say I'm not sad that these questions will stay questions, but that's not going to stop me from watching the rest.

R2 is too much Lelouch vs Charles, instead of Lelouch vs the World to me. I don't really understand what he will gain from killing him, honestly. I doubt it will shatter Britannia unless getting rid of Charles triggers 'Ragnorak' and all people with Britannian blood heads explode or something.

Does this also mean that the whole Who Killed My Mom scenario is gone, too?

&&& so longgg Suzaku's geass connection explanation. Sighhhh.

[fox-holland.livejournal.com]

Everyone is crying

[mikoto-chan13.livejournal.com]

Uhm... Well, that certainly does bring some strange feelings. But honestly, as much as I would like to know what was the original plan, I've been thoroughly satisfied with R2 lately, so I don't really care. Who knows, perhaps I wouldn't even love it as much as I love it now, with all that crack and unexpected plot twists and one highlight after another and end of the world coming. I even like many characters' characterization more than in S1.

I don't really get a lot of the fans, though. After airing of each episode they always seem all hyped up and "Man, that was SOMETHING!", and when they personally don't like some of the recent development and something like this comes out accidentally right at the moment, they're suddenly all "I've always said R2 is totally screwed, let's burn it!"

Really fickle, I'd say.

[spleener.livejournal.com]

Who knows, perhaps I wouldn't even love it as much as I love it now, with all that crack and unexpected plot twists and one highlight after another and end of the world coming. I even like many characters' characterization more than in S1.

This is also a good point. How do we know that the 'original plan' was better than what they wound up making?

[spleener.livejournal.com]

Anyways. I think the main message I'd like to convey is SCREW YOU, SUNRISE. Stop messing around with your directors. Just because of this, I now sorta want Taniguchi to pull an Anno, just to shit with them.

Though it may not always be of this caliber, I'm pretty sure executives screwing around with the directors' own creative visions is the rule rather than the exception. Unless you're someone who always makes SUPER MEGA HUGE SMASH HITS they're not going to give you free reign to do whatever you want on their time/money.

Cecile's relationship with Suzaku?

I dunno if it was going to turn that way, but remember when Lloyd brought up him being a 'replacement' for someone else? I presume it was an allusion to that discontinued subplot. Aborted Arcs (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AbortedArc) are also not unique to Geass, though.

[spleener.livejournal.com]

I would presume that any plot threads that have been brought up since the start of R2 will be completed. We saw CC talking to Marianne in episode 7, and Lulu wanting to avenge his mother was the whole reason why Orange joined him.

[susure.livejournal.com]

We obviously won't know (at least for a while?) if we would have preferred Tani's "true" vision of R2. There almost certainly will be people who don't. This kind of news just sends a ripple through the communities and stirs up anger that the R2 they're currently watching is messed up or some kind of deviation. If EoE was Anno Hideaki's true vision of the NGE ending, then I actually prefer the later episodes.

Personally, almost none of those supposedly cut storylines interest me in the least? Cecile and Suzaku's relationship.. Huh? Suzaku getting a Geass might EXPLAIN things, but not really in the context of Geass (which I always thought affected people's minds, instead of augmenting someone physically? "Nono, you just THOUGHT you saw me run sideways on that wall and destroy a gun turret with one kick >_>"). Plus I always considered Suzaku an opponent of Geass, who wouldn't WANT to have one himself, especially since it was the cause of Euphie's death.

But, I will say that I am very much missing some Kallen backstory. I actually think she's kind of an undeveloped character; considering how long Kallen's been around, she seems like nothing more than an accessory at some points in R2.

I mean, overall R2 definitely has a different tone compared to Season 1, but I've enjoyed it just as much if not more. When I was marathoning S1, there were times it lagged and I sort of considered dropping. But there wasn't one week where I wasn't hungry for another R2 episode. (Does that mean I have poor taste? ._.) Taniguchi should have trusted that fans would have followed R2 (isn't Code Geass's sales mostly in DVDs/merch anyway? Like even during S1 ratings were low, no? And do anime series ever really get cancelled?). I must still not understand how a changed timeslot suddenly insists that chunks of storyline has to be scrapped and redone; but obviously if you're moving to a more mature demographic you have more liberties with your content. That's not a bad thing..

O/T, but in response to new FMA- buh. o_o What was wrong with old FMA? I actually find the manga really hard to follow..

[susure.livejournal.com]

Oh, PS. I'm not a fan of when series split up their content across all sorts of media, what with the light novels and the picture dramas and the manga series with different continuities. It makes it hard to argue what's canon and what's not. I thought this wouldn't be a problem with Code Geass since it wasn't based on a manga, but..

[hopechan.livejournal.com]

God, I'm at once depressed and deeply satisfied to hear this. I would have liked to have seen what R2 could have been, but I'm glad that the show I loved so much didn't simply drop the ball - that there were other forces at work. Because I really fucking hate R2, and I really fucking hate the direction the show has taken, and I'm glad to hear that this wasn't the planned direction - that the show I once tried to push on all my friends wasn't supposed to turn out like this.

Would the other version have been better? Who knows? (ACTUALLY, I DO. CECILE/SUZAKU = WANT.) Maybe I'm naive to think that it would have solved all the rampant problems in this series. Maybe I'm naive to think it would have been better. Still, in the immortal words of "The X-Files": "Auto-erotic asphyxiation is an unpleasant way to go."

Um, I mean, "I want to believe."

[rainbow-cnxn.livejournal.com]

Oh, I certainly understand that directors getting yanked around by the studio is the norm. Perhaps I'm still a bit bitter at Sunrise for their part in making GSD the mess that it was. And although I'm annoyed at the negative effect that Sunrise's meddling had on the plot, I definitely see where they're coming from. They are a company, after all, and they're looking to turn as large a profit as possible. And the new timeslot, despite all the bad news it was for the plot, was a financially savvy decision.

It was sorta expected that we'd have aborted arcs like that. I mean, there were just so many arcs hanging up in the air at the end of season one. Oh well. Even if the anime ignores them, that's what fic is for, right? \o/

[tungwene.livejournal.com]

I've felt at times that parts of R2 have been really rushed (the China arc, Orange's return and Shirley's death, C.C. and the cult etc.) and the show would've benefited from being a 39 episode long series like Death Note and Saiunkoku 'cause it seemed like there was a lot of interesting stuff going on that was all being touched on too briefly. Now I find the team had has six months to invent a new story from scratch and it becomes clearer to me why R2 is the way it is. If Taniguchi doesn't feel attached to his project anymore to the point that he's contemplating resigning all together and is just making do with what he has then it makes a lot of sense to me why the storytelling has been so messing. It's a shame though because ever since I watched Planetes I knew he was an amazingly talented director so I hope Geass is not the final straw that kills his career.

[inastr8jacket.livejournal.com]

I'm a little miffed learning this, but I don't see it as a huge deal. I don't see why they couldn't add those subplots in somewhere else if they absolutely could not put them in the actual episodes. Like some people said, they seem a little irrelevant to the actual story, so why don't they just shorten them a bit and put them in a picture drama or something? Or manga, mangas are fine too.

I would have really liked those Suzaku subplots, especially since he seems to get little characterization in R2. And I like Cecile, so learning more about her would've been nice. And when they talk about her relationship with Suzaku is probably her motherly and protective side and how he might be a "substitute" for someone else. Damn, now I want to know. ;_; (Also, haha, I've always thought of Suzaku as the dark lord of physical strength just that strong.)

R2 hasn't been that bad, but I liked R1 far more. However, I've never seen parts of R2 as "forced action" (except maybe that mass of deaths we just saw), never seen Rolo as a "forced character" before learning about this or anything. Maybe I'm just not perceptive or they did a good job covering up or what, but R2 really hasn't been doing that bad.

[kusaja.livejournal.com]

That is no confirmation, that is interpretation by Celiss Galvea, who as much as she deserves to be respected isn't infallible and can't see the future.

It's true that it's been out of the show so far, but that says nothing about how the show will end.

I'll laugh if it turns out that the next few episodes do give at least a tiny bit of development to that subplot when everyone is assuming otherwise.

[kusaja.livejournal.com]

"I believe Kallen's backstory was also eliminated from the plans."

People are assuming that "Kallen's backstory" would get some development, but there is no indication of that.

[kusaja.livejournal.com]

And what indication is there that "Kallen's backstory" would even be considered under the original plan?

[kusaja.livejournal.com]

What "six months"?

Six months after episode 25 was supposed to be the original airing date for R2, but you all know that it only aired much later.