Code Geass R2: NOT LIKE PLANNED

[spleener.livejournal.com]

So I'm surprised this hasn't been posted to the comm yet. I'm sure there are other links on this but I'm going to go ahead and post the ones from Koda's blog:

http://trainwreck.ggkthx.org/2008/08/19/taniguchi-on-geass-not-as-planned/

http://trainwreck.ggkthx.org/2008/08/20/changing-the-time-changing-the-show/

tl;dr- the planned story for R2 had to be scrapped entirely due to the fact that R1 was on a late-night thursday slot and R2 was moved to a prime time Sunday slot, mostly because they couldn't write R2 with the assumption that the audience had seen R1 before. Among other things, the subplots involving Cecile's relationship with Suzaku and Suzaku's connection to Geass (ie why he went catatonic at Kaminejima when the elevator thing activated) were basically dropped, and Rolo was added in.

One should note that this is far from the first time that a show's direction has been influenced by executive meddling, hell, Geass R1 had a lot changed because it was originally slated for a prime time slot and moved to late night, and probably wouldn't have been as good as it wound up being if it weren't for that.

And this is actually a pretty amazing analysis of the situation I just saw posted on /a/:


Rolo is meta as fuck

Rolo is an expression of Taniguchi’s frustration at not being able to develop R2 his way.

Rolo was forced into the story as part of the “re-envisioning” of the show that led to many changes, some of which suck ass. Taniguchi is aware of this. And he is aware of his own situation: forced to work with the damn thing anyway, for the profit of his superiors, no matter how he feels. I’m not making him out to be a great creative mind of a martyr, just noting that he kind of feels a little fucked. Hence, the place of Rolo in the story.

He’s unwanted. Defective. He’s made into what he is because external forces, in this case the Geass cult, decided on it. He does not start out with a will of his own, and his role is to deceive. This is how Taniguchi sees R2: an imperfect creation forced on the viewers, trying too hard to be liked and accepted. No doubt he sees himself as a “disposable rag” at the hands of the executives, and the show as possibly equally forgettable by the viewers. And then, of course, Rolo as the representation of the spirit of R2 kills something that was positive about R1.

So Rolo’s death is both an embodiment of sincerity and deception. On one hand, Rolo accepts his status as a tool but still strives toward what he believes is good in the end. A fairly plain admission by Taniguchi that his work has its failings, that his own capacities are limited, and that in spite of this, he will still try to work around the obstacles and make it good. The very removal of Rolo might even suggest a graudual return to his original plans. But on the other hand, the scene is highly emotionally manipulative, and a decent amount of effort was put into it, in spite of possible dislike for the character. And people seemed to drink it up. That in itself is a fuck-what-you-think-you’re-going-to-watch-this-shit-anyway at the viewer.


Personally I agree with the idea that Taniguchi's been doing his best in spite of being fucked over by the execs, it seems like people are finding out he was pissed off about this a year ago just now and assuming he's still pissed off and has basically been phoning in all of R2 and therefore every story development they disagree with is due to that. I for one like the current R2, and I honestly think Taniguchi and the rest of the team have gotten over what happened and are happy with the R2 they've created.

That said, I'd love to see the original plan for R2 in some way, perhaps as a manga?

Comments

[mikoto-chan13.livejournal.com]

It'll always leave me wondering, though -- just like with Escaflowne, which was originally planned for 39 episodes instead of 26. Can't help but wonder if it would have been better or worse.

Really? I didn't know that O.o;; But I think I'll sleep safely anyway, because for me, Escaflowne is still the best series I've ever seen with the best developed plot I've ever come across, and I simply can't imagine any further improvement! :D (Wasn't it even planned as your usual space mecha-show at the beginning? O.o It would lose like 3/4 of its shounen/shoujo charm IMHO.)

[mikoto-chan13.livejournal.com]

I don't think R2 is as bad as what everybody is saying...

You're definitely not the only one. I also think R2 is pretty great. (Even though I don't believe Nunnally's dead XD)

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I know this is new news to some so posting it does inform people, and my profession requires me to be a fan of the informing. That said, I'm pretty tired of focusing on what might have been. Where does it get any of us? Besides depressed. I say we either take the show as it is now and see what Taniguchi manages to deliver in the end or we live in happy denial world of S1 and make up our own ending. As someone has said, we have enough of a fanbase to BS/"interpret" the mess that R2 has been. If we still get a decent final product, none of this "could have/should have/would have" will matter. I'm iffy with R2 too, but I find dwelling on what we can't change just makes us more bitter toward what we loved.

Sigh, I just want to enjoy Geass again.

[chickee1.livejournal.com]

I now sorta want Taniguchi to pull an Anno, just to shit with them.

Shall we start looking for hate mail strewn through scenes of the final eps?

[faye-naruse.livejournal.com]

Lol, yeah, and then after a couple days the excitement will fizzle and the bashing will continue~ X3

[saverellawish.livejournal.com]

Well if that isn't awesome.

[saverellawish.livejournal.com]

Well this explains a few things. Not that I'm complaining much either way. S1 was awesome, but its not like R2 hasn't been enjoyable. I am curious as to what the original plot would have been like, if it would have been less angsty at this point?

I'm rather disappointed to hear Sunrise made Taniguchi change things. Code Geass would have been epic either way, so I can really understand why they changed it.

[starryburst.livejournal.com]

Am I the only one who doesn't really give a damn?

I like R2. Call me easy to please or whatever, I just don't really care.

[klingon-jedi.livejournal.com]

At least it explains all the little WTFs we've all been talking about. It sure does explain the whole mindwipe thing and why it took so long to pick up on any thread like Shirleys. Given what they did with Suzaku, I see it was a very real possiblity that they could've kept her Geassed and happy.

It also explains why it got better as it went along.

That Rolo comparison is brilliant. I especially loved the line of Rolo killing Shirley representative of the spirit of R2 killing some of the spirit of R1. Trippy way of thinking about it.

I've liked a lot of R2, and don't really view it as a trainwreck. Though I will admit that there are parts that felt rushed or out of place. It happens to a lot of show (like how I couldn't put my finger on MF's Sheryl since it seems like quick rewriting was in play there too), and you've got to accept it. Still it's nice to know what had been changed and what not. Knowing that it's not 100% doesn't really makes me bitter, but I do see your point, as it is still a shame. I think they've done the best they could with the situation. At least it's not as bad as X-men 3. I wouldn't mind knowing just how much of the storyline is intact.

Who knows, if we're lucky maybe they'll do compilation movies where he can redo some of the iffier parts (like the bridge between R1 and R2, Shirley, etc).

[klingon-jedi.livejournal.com]

Actually, shows get canceled all the time. Though it usually takes the form of episode cutbacks. Lots' of famous examples too like the original Gundam, Escaflowne, Macross (which later got a reprieve), Gundam X, and so on.

[klingon-jedi.livejournal.com]

Agreed, I'd even forgotten the whole Geass connection myself.

Still, it explains why they took so long to dig up Shirley, and why she's become a bit of a footnote. They've probably minimized what was intended.

[scuba-dooba.livejournal.com]

me too. Maybe it's just because it's already going down, but I can't imagine the second season of Code Geass being any less convoluted that it actually is...if that makes sense.

[kusaja.livejournal.com]

If anything, I'd think it would be even more angsty.

A "family friendly" time slot wouldn't mean more, not less, angast, you know?

The first half of R2 was far too cheery, I think that was the "problem", not the other way around.

[kusaja.livejournal.com]

Ultimately, I'm probably in that camp too.

It's not like I think R2 is perfect.

If I had to give it a grade, it'd be pretty inclined to give it a 7.5/10 right now, mostly because of the first half of the show.

But I'm still having fun, overall, and the grade may go up to an 8/10 if the ending is good. Going by the latest episodes, it should be. Or so I hope.

[strawberrypenis.livejournal.com]

honestly I do like R2 but I think if Taniguchi has done it his way things would have been even better because no ones knows the story and could explain it better than himself. Things would prolly be totally different but it would be the original way/idea and who knows maybe some who died wasn't supposed to or some who survived shouldn't have. After all is done he should def. re-do R2 and make it his way. I'll watch 100% plus I totally understand if I have a story I carefully planned I wouldn't want others adding/changing to their likings. I just hope the ending wasn't changed from his original plans

[sukiyakiya.livejournal.com]

@_@ not the original scenario ?! no wonder there a lot of "hole" that missing in R2^^;

[mikoto-chan13.livejournal.com]

It's the same with me. I've thoroughly enjoyed R2 so far (it gets better and better as it goes, but it was the same for me with S1, actually) and I'm such an ignorant that I don't even really care about the plot holes. ^^;; Who knows how many awesome characters we might have been robbed off, for one thing.

[mikoto-chan13.livejournal.com]

If anything, I'd think it would be even more angsty.

I think so, too. I'd say that especially the development of Lelouch and Suzaku would've been much, much darker. (Just my guess, though. Who knows? Who cares?)

[schizofragile.livejournal.com]

mmmm, BAWW? IF the original R2 was put into action where would Rolopon be? D8

oh well it's not like we can go back in time and change the episodes. w/e. I just thank the Rolopon screentiems *__*

[leitao.livejournal.com]

. . . the subplots involving Cecile's relationship with Suzaku and Suzaku's connection to Geass (ie why he went catatonic at Kaminejima when the elevator thing activated) were basically dropped . . .

WAT. No, I really wanna know these things, even if it's just the director talking about them in a magazine or something! I always wonder what the eff was up with Suzaku at Kaminejima. ;_;

Also, it would be interesting to know a bit more about Suzaku's past. Ever since his previous caretaker was mentioned in one of the sound dramas or something (and all he said of her is that she was dead now, and he wouldn't say anything else?), I've been intrigued. Wonder if Cecil is the replacement for that woman who took him in?

[saverellawish.livejournal.com]

Yes. The first half of R2 was way too optimistic (you know, excluding the massacre that was Babel Tower) compared to what we had seen so far from Geass. Now that it wasn't cool in the beginning, but it felt like they got off track some how.

Its going rather well now, despite the everybody is dead or soon to be on the list factor (not that I mind that much either). It would have been interesting to see what it originally was. I hope he gets the chance to make it some day.

Either way, guess theres not much we can do now. Hope he gives us tidbits eventually.

And I totally meant can't in my previous post, damn typos...

[saverellawish.livejournal.com]

Meh, I don't much care either way. I'm just more prone to contemplating both sides of things. R2 is awesome, but I still wonder what it originally would have been like.

[xoxeskel.livejournal.com]

Meh. Weigh up the consequences and benefits; had things gone the way they should have, more Suzaku. Had things gone the way they DID, more Rolo. I'm more partial to Suzaku myself, but this community seems to like Rolo a helluva lot more than Suzaku, despite the crack potential. Go figure.

[xosakura-chanox.livejournal.com]

YOU GOTTA BE SHITTING ME!!!! O_O

BUT IF THEY DO IT FROM THE BEGINING WILL IT MAYBE BE DIFFERENT VOICE ACTORS, AND WONT IT BE CONFUZING IF IT WOULD BE A CONTINUATION!?

(my friends are gonna freak!!)

[xosakura-chanox.livejournal.com]

wow its really not going as planned? O_O wow i had a feeling it didn't look right after nannally's death...