Britannia's Religion

[vicks111.livejournal.com]

Religion has been mentioned offhand many times in Geass, but never actually stated. I started thinking about this from a review and Clovis' few chosen words. I would really like to hear everyone's opinion on this, maybe we can figure it out XD

SPOILERS FOR GEASS HISTORY AND EP 21

Ok, is the Empire christian or not? I think it was pretty much given by its name "Holy Empire of Britannia", but apparently since Julius Cesar did not conquer England, then they did not became christians. However, if you think about it, Catholicism still became big, even if England was not part of the empire. It is logical to think, that even if they were not officially christian, the Church was pretty big back in the medieval ages and renaissance and they must have had an impact.

It's interesting that the Geass history mentions Elizabeth I, which set the foundation for the Church of England. But then Elizabeth III abdicated the throne of England. She was no longer Queen and Napoleon invaded. She came to the Americas, and it's given that the rest of the Empire came under her rule.

Now, if she abdicated and there was no (mentioned) war in the Americas, she must have pulled something big to scare the Spaniards away. By the time she arrived in US, the South American colonies were starting the process of Independence. They would not have relinquished their land so easily, since they even fought war with Spain. The Central American colonies would have annexed easily, but not South America.
She was no longer Queen of England, and had no other power but loyalty from those that came with her. To be able to create such an empire as Britannia (just the continent) without turmoil, she must have had help from the Catholic church. And the Americas would have not accepted a queen that was not crowned by the Pope.

...Now I want to see if Lulu gets crowned by a priest XD
......and yes, I am a wee bit obsessive with the most random things. You can clearly see I have given this much a thought.

Comments

[haunter]

Dude, I've been wondering about the religion in Geass forEVER. I bet a buncha other roleplayers have, too. :/ C'mon Sunrise, throw us a fuckin' bone.

[zerorevenge.livejournal.com]

Fuck Yes, now I can be proud of being a Roman Catholic.

[vicks111.livejournal.com]

All hail the momeland!!!
I am also roman catholic, but I said christianity to be more general. But in America, it had to be the Catholic church XP

[zerorevenge.livejournal.com]

But in America, it had to be the Catholic church XP

Absolutely. =3

[darksage29.livejournal.com]

seconded.

[powercorrupts.livejournal.com]

I've wondered about that myself, actually. I tend to just assume that they're actually, for once, not bothering to try and step on Christianity. Sunrise isn't one of the bigger offenders in terms of western religion bashing as far as studios go, but all the same, I might be giving an anime too much credit in assuming that it's actually not trying to offend Christians. xD

As far as the "Holy Britannian Empire," I figured it was simply not too unlike the historical Holy Roman Empire, which was neither holy, roman, nor truly an empire, but second guessing Sunrise's intentions doesn't always lead to accuracy.

Given the nun we see with C.C., I'm not sure whether that should imply Christianity or the opposite. There's no obvious trappings of Christianity in that church, though the layout of the church itself and the nun's habit would imply it.

And to be perfectly honest, I've always associated the Arthurian legends as being tied up with the coming of Christianity to the isles, as well. I've got no idea how accurate that is, though some of my favourite of the retellings feature it, and I just assumed. So to isolate the two seems really foreign to me.

I'm halfway hoping, to be honest, that we won't actually get religion in Geass. While I'd really like some clarification on the religion issue, I'm glad that at least they haven't played some sort of horrible, cheap religion-bashing card as far as it goes. I'm all for questioning organized faiths through fiction, but these days sometimes I think anime does it just for the lulz.

[vicks111.livejournal.com]

I'm halfway hoping, to be honest, that we won't actually get religion in Geass
with the way they are going I also hope not. But it would be nice to know the country's official religion XD

As for the Arthurian legends, I am not good with them. Just know the basic story, and even then I don't get it that much.

[mikoto-chan13.livejournal.com]

I've always associated the Arthurian legends as being tied up with the coming of Christianity to the isles, as well.

That is definitely true, see the legend about the Holy Grail etc. Arthur and his knights were knights of faith and they were associated with the best Christian virtues.

[tensa-chan.livejournal.com]

You do realize that most of the tales are bastardized forms of ancient oral history adapted so that the Romans would let the natives tell them? King Arthur is actually the fictional amalgamation of several real Welsh kings.

[glorfindel.livejournal.com]

Its just easier that religion isnt attached to this D:

They may even have their own new religion, who knows, I don't particularly care XD It isnt important to the storyline otherwise it would've come up.

[vicks111.livejournal.com]

I'm not looking for religion to be attached to it. It's just a simple curiosity at best XD

[klingon-jedi.livejournal.com]

Chance are it's the "Holy" Britannia Empire because it sounds cooler. The Japanese have never been good with these things. Reading that link, it's surprising that they choose Franklin as the traitor. Why not just have Arnold's betrayal of West Point succeed instead? I guess having him never appeal for French aid is one thing, but it wasn't just Franklins responsibility. Chalk it up to lack of knowledge.

So religionwise, who knows? With Britannia based in America, it could very well be Catholic. Or it could very well not have a national religion at all.

Sounds like the dub implies more than the sub.

I'm Roman Catholic too, though I'm rather liberal about it.

[klingon-jedi.livejournal.com]

Oh, and amusing to think that this is all taking place in the early 60s...

Forgot Kennedy and Vietnam, it's Charles and the Black Rebellion. ^_^

[vicks111.livejournal.com]

I read that about the dub (tried to keep up with it, but I think I only watched it until episode 6). As for the lack of knowledge, why go through all the trouble of going to the world history not to do it right? Sure they have mistaked things in the past, but at least here they are making an effort XD
I'm not well versed on the American history, but I guess choosing Franklin was just something for the people to go "ohhh, look how it changed!", or something of the sort.

[klingon-jedi.livejournal.com]

I guess. It was probably because it's well known that Franklin was largely responsible for bringing in France, which essentially won the war for us thanks to the fleet they sent. It's just the whole bribe thing that doesn't sit well. Franklin never struck me as the type to betray his ideas for gold and land.

It's a fictional universe though, so I guess we can just say it was a different Franklin. One more easily bought.

[tensa-chan.livejournal.com]

Not really. Franklin, in addition to being important to the war effort, held great influence. His failure to procure French troops would have lowered morale, especially since in our world only a third of Americans supported the Revolution; a third were loyalists and the other third didn't give a shit.

Also, historical case studies have shown that if a revolution does not gain foreign help, it WILL fail, no exceptions. And that the US only won because Britain didn't give a damn- they thought we'd be crawling back after our little experiment with democracy failed, and they were more focused on India's resources, anyways.

[klingon-jedi.livejournal.com]

Wow, that's digging up old topics. ^_^ I'm well aware of Franklin's influence, and my post was in no way a be all, end all of his contributions to the war effort. So there's no need to argue on that.

My problem wasn't with them saying the Revolution failed because of his betrayal, but rather that my perception of Franklin never struck me as the type that would be bought out the way he is in this fictional timeline. So I figured they choose him because he's well known to non-scholars of the revolution and the ease of having us loose due to non foreign aid (No French fleet, Cornwallis escapes Yorktown, war continues). Though Franklin wasn't alone is persuading the French. They could have just easily had the surrender of West Point succeed, loosing the river and much of New England with it.

Though like I said, different timeline, different Franklin.

Britain was also overconfident in the field quite often. Allowing our not as trained men to use their knowledge of the land and so forth against them.

[lavaliere]

If I remember correctly, isn't there a Catholic (or at least some denomination of Christian) priest speaking at the funeral of Shirley's dad? If I'm correct (too lazy to check atm), then it's possible that Catholicism, or at least the Church of England, still is prevelent in the Britannian culter, even if it's taken a bit of a back seat to everything else (including the Cult of Geass)

[moonloop.livejournal.com]

I noticed there was a priest there and everything. So I would have to agree with you there. However there may be different religions throughout Britannia but the majority being Christian or even Catholics. But like a few posts said up there they might have their own or simply haven't made religion an important issue more or less.

[debilitate.livejournal.com]

Irrelevant to this post, I know, but, hales731? Can you IM me? I forgot your new IM, and I got something to show you~ :3

[moonloop.livejournal.com]

They are all Atheists. Nuff said. :D

[a-songfor-xx.livejournal.com]

IAWTC.

[clones.livejournal.com]

IAWTC.

[strike-x-slash.livejournal.com]

YES.

[melengro.livejournal.com]

Well, some of the higher echelons certainly are in any case. I'M LOOKING AT YOU, NORIO.

[eggy-egg.livejournal.com]

"It is set to the date the first Celtic super-king, Eowyn..."

Hoohoo, Lord of the Rings. -brick'd-

o__o This is very interesting, actually. >__> But I don't really think they've emphasised on religion in this anime. Maybe they thought having nuns and priests added to the 'English' feel of Britannia. o_o; -spouting nonsense-

[tenshi789.livejournal.com]

Haven't given it too much thought because I have concluded that anime doesn't make sense.

But I think its interesting to note- that his clothes in the preview look really um... priest-like?

[vicks111.livejournal.com]

I pretty much thought he was going for the white clothes to make a difference between him and Zero XD
Lulu, darling, it doesn't work like that :D

[xgraphy.livejournal.com]

In the first picture drama of the first season, Lelouch and Nunnally talk about how a Shinto shrine is the Japanese version of their church, and Nunnally asks if the Pope is the Emperor of Japan. (Aww)

So I'd say from those two things that Brittanians are Roman Catholics?

[vicks111.livejournal.com]

I had forgotten about the picture drama! I remember that...now XP
There have been some priest aroung the series too (the ones at the funerals, the one marrying Odysseus!), so I guess they are catholics (at least on the surface, because it seems nobody cares)

[miasmacloud.livejournal.com]

I've wondered about that since there's a church on the Ashford campus. I figured they were some flavor of Christianity and students had to attend church on Sundays.

[vicks111.livejournal.com]

that, and Odysseus was being married by a priest XDD
But other than that, they have just given small hints. Someone up there mentioned the picture drama 1, where they talk about the church, and I think we are not off the bat with this :P

[strike-x-slash.livejournal.com]

It doesn't have to be Christianity, you know. What if they're all Scientologists and everything's just named and looks wrong? I'd prefer it if they didn't have a religion myself, but w/e.

[vicks111.livejournal.com]

It actually can be any religion that believes in Christ (that's why I said christianity)
I'd be awesome if they were all scientologists...lots of things would make sense XDD

[strike-x-slash.livejournal.com]

Idk, looks to me as if they don't have to believe in Christ. They could be praying to galactic overlord Xenu for all we know.

If anyone gets up on a couch and starts jumping, we'll know for sure. 8D

[dr-wats0n.livejournal.com]

The Emperor is a polygamist, which doesn’t really fit into the description of any of the three major branches of Christianity. However, the funeral of Shirley’s father, complete with the priest, looks distinctly Christian to me, even though the graveyard itself is pretty much void of religious symbols of any kind.

Also, one of the more prominent symbols of Britannia looks like a variation of Fleur de Lis (which was conveniently associated with one Clovis, king of the Franks ;p). Fleur de Lis is also associated with Virgin Mary, but the symbol has a history longer than that of Christianity. It's hard to tell, but seeing as how Britain was already christianized long before Elizabeth's time, I think it's safe to assume that some form of Christianity is, indeed, the religion of the empire.

[dr-wats0n.livejournal.com]

Wait, scrap that last line. Forgot to take into consideration that Geass's alternate history messed with that, too XD.

[vicks111.livejournal.com]

XDD

To me, at least, Clovis was christian. His line "Thank the heavens you are alive!" to Lelouch implies that at least, he was raised as one.
There's also Odysseus attempt-at-wedding, what with the priest and everything.

[dr-wats0n.livejournal.com]

I don't think that's literally what Clovis says. IIRC, he says 'yokatta' which is a very general way of saying good/wonderful/that's great (although, all the subs I've seen went with something like heavens/goodness :-/).

Either way, I think they're all Christian XD.

[vicks111.livejournal.com]

...and not very good ones >:P

[inulovinkit.livejournal.com]

I always assumed Catholic. Or some form of Christianity. Hell, for all we know, maybe there was a Protestant Revolution sometime in the history of Britannia.

Well, whatever. If the are Catholic, they're not very super-Catholic about it. >.>

(Maybe in Britannia, like in the early Holy Roman Empire, the Emperor is also the Pope? (Before the historical popes had to give up that job?) Lelouch for Pope, plz. :D )

[vicks111.livejournal.com]

It would definitely add up to the crack >:DDD

[melengro.livejournal.com]

I always took it for granted that the whole Caesar thing was propagandist bullshit. But other than that? I mean...I've never really thought about it, but...the nun, Clovis, Charles, the church architecture, the name of the country (c.f. His Catholic Majesty the King of Spain), the occasional Latin chanting...it all makes sense!

[vicks111.livejournal.com]

and in the picture drama Nunnally asks if the Pope reigns over Japan >:DDD
That would be an awesome sight, indeed! His Catholic Majesty Lelouch I, ROFL!

[the-quantum-cat.livejournal.com]

I would tend to think something along the lines of Roman Catholic,too. There's just too many references to it. Although, something tells me that the Pope would probably not be happy with the current Holy Britannian Empire, unless there's some sort of Babylonian Captivity going on...

Actually, it points out a major continuity error on the part of the producers, although maybe it's not that apparent since no one else has noticed it either. At least I think, it's claimed that the change occurred when Julius Caesar failed to conquer Britain...

In RL, Julius Caesar twice attempted to conquer "Britannia," and twice failed. It was conquered in 43 AD (about about 100 after Caesar died), and Roman Britain was established.

Perhaps this is just me being my bookish self, but I want to analyze the entire alternate history of the Code Geass timeline... ^.^

[zerosaver.livejournal.com]

POPE LELOUCH! ALL HAIL THE POPE!

but seriously, for all we know Britannia has it's own Britannian, "ALL HAIL THE MOMELAND" religion.

[catinthelimehat.livejournal.com]

I think C.C. called them "Christian soldiers" in S1.

[renabunny42.livejournal.com]

You have Lloyd getting the sarcastic line "Onward christian soldiers" in the dub, and lots of other little things :)

[renabunny42.livejournal.com]

*giving

wtf self, speak XD