From Russia with love :-)

[zinik-alexander.livejournal.com]

Hello everybody.
I'm a CG-fan from Russia, and it's my first post to this community - just because I'm not sure in my English-writing skills. But, anyway, last two series were so awesome, that I can't be silent anymore.

We have a joke in russian internets, which can be translated to English as "WWWAtP" - "When We Will Achieve the Power". It is used when you speak about becoming a fearsome dictator or a revolutionary leader, in sarcastic manner usually. And "WWWAtP" was my ultimate reason to watch CG. I wanted to see how Lelouch will become an Emperor - and finally, after more than a year of waiting, he did it! I just can't say how awesome is this. I was really happy.

But my happiness isn't the main reason for me to write this post - I understand one thing while watching 22 Ep.
Nobody from main characters of this anime isn't a good guy. No. They aren't anti-heroes, they are really bad villains. Even if they think that they have good intentions, like Lelouch, Suzaku or Charles, they are villains and evil guys. They are traitors, murderers and liars, they are ruthless power-hungry bastards, they commited patricide and fratricide, or something like that.
Charles, Marianne, V.V., C.C., Schneizel, Lelouch, Suzaku, Toudou, Ohgi, Viletta, Diethard, Kanon, Nina... Even Lloyd, that cowardly sociopathic freak. Even Kaguya, who betrayed her husband and started to act as a real politician.
Of course, there are some really noble or innocent characters - like Cornelia, Kallen or Milly.
But main heroes are really, really, really vile, vicious and evil, and Lelouch isn't any better than Schneizel.

And this is that makes CG so awesome. Hide away moral essays and just behold this great clash of iron wills, that battle without honour and humanity, where winner takes it all, and losers will be punished by death. So brutal. So cynical. So cool.

Well... If anybody is disagree, you're welcome to argue. I'll be glad to hear you.

PS: Sorry if my English isn't very good or my thoughts are old. I just wasn't able to hold it inside me :-)

Comments

[pinkified.livejournal.com]

I don't think that Cornelia is innocent. And Kallen too. A good example of innocence is Rollo and Shirley, not some bitchy girls who can kill everyone who's not on their side :/

[zinik-alexander.livejournal.com]

Hahaha, innocent Rollo. Nice joke.

But, of course, Kallen and Cornelia aren't innocent. They are noble warriors, which have honour and loyalty.

[pinkified.livejournal.com]

It isn't his fault that someone gave him geass and ordered to kill people :/

When just say that they're the only characters that have pride or something.

[miribai.livejournal.com]

No, its not his fault but it is his choice.

[pinkified.livejournal.com]

With Lelouch: sure, but you can't say that it was his choice before meeting Lelouch.

[miribai.livejournal.com]

I am of the mind that you always have a choice. No matter what.

[zinik-alexander.livejournal.com]

I don't blame him for becoming an assassin. But he accepted that fate and started to think in that way. Remember his intention to kill Suzaku or Nunnaly? He is a poor boy, but he isn't innocent at all.

It's questionable. I think that members of Toudou's team have pride too, because they are extremely loyal to their leader Toudou. And some Knights of Rounds also have pride, and Xing-Ke too, I suppose. But it's hard to say - we still have 3 series to find out another huge and great treason or something :-)

[zinik-alexander.livejournal.com]

I think that he isn't really a good guy. Just remember his dialogue with Nina. Sounds kinda scary for me - another mad scientist in my Geass (a really mad, I mean). And he really doesn't care about things happening around, even it's a death of 35 million of people. And he hides behind woman's back, what a coward!
Of course, this is quite a joke :-)

And yes, Euphie and Cecile are really innocent and good - just because somebody needs to be good ieven in the Geass :-)

[god-diva.livejournal.com]

Really. I was under the impression that Code Geass was rather awesome because its characters are ambiguous in their morality. You can't tell whether they are good or bad. Nearly all the characters you list as traitors, murderers, and liars have a bad and good side that we have been shown or hinted to at least once. So, while I agree they may seem more like pure villains, I can't agree that it's truly the case. I also can't agree since R2 does a bigger job at showing the more human/emotional side of Lelouch and it would seem rather horrible not to see what the difference between Lelouch R1 and Lelouch R2 is when it has been clearly shown many times. Even in R1 this issue is discussed and I won't go into details because it would get rather long and it's pretty obvious. Actually, the whole basis's of Suzaku being Lelouchs foil comes from morality, really.

[zinik-alexander.livejournal.com]

Yes, I agree: there's a big difference between Lelouch (and Suzaku too) in R1 and R2. But I really think, that both of them moved closer to "evil" during both seasons.
And, of course, being villain doesn't mean feeling no emotions. All of heroes have emotions and feelings. Ohgi loves Viletta, Lelouch loves Nunnaly and have some feelings to C.C., Kallen and Rollo, Suzaku tries to be a kind man in usual life and feels himself ashamed after that Refrain scene with Kallen. But this changes nothing: heroes move from morality to cynicism. And I really like it, because it makes this show quite realistic in some aspects... and because all of them are magnificent in their bastard-ness.

[god-diva.livejournal.com]

Well my definition of evil would be someone who doesn't care about anyone but themselves. Though Lelouch has been shown to be selfish, he admits to Suzaku that he did it with good intentions to everyone he knows, not only Nunnally. Also, I have a weird feeling that when you mean 'evil" you're talking about them being "human", people in real life would do what they did. I don't know how to explain it. I do agree with the moving from morals to cynicism but not in such a black and white way, more like the characters just move between the gray line in between. That's pretty much why I can't call them evil even now. Another thing is what Koda from Code Trainwreck said (lul) that some characters moved towards redemption, like Rolo, despite their bad qualities.

PS. No need to worry, your English is quite good =)

[zinik-alexander.livejournal.com]

The definition of "evil" is really a hard question. But in this case I was talking about stereotypes. People always try to find "a good guy" in a film, book or anime. And this good guy should at least don't do so horrible things as others. But in CG there are so many people who do such things, that nobody can be called a good guy. That's what I mean.

PS: I'm really glad to hear it. Thank you.

[fujiappletan.livejournal.com]

...best russian joke I've ever heard. xD
the thing about Code Geass is everyone is just either really human or really psycho. &those cliffhangers, oh baby I love those. ♥

[levy.livejournal.com]

I was too positively impressed by the moral questionability of the majority of Code Geass characters, and the climax of the recent episodes, to me, bring to the surface all the conflict of all these different and subjective assesment of what is good and what is not. The short talk between Gino and Suzaku in the last episode was quite emblematic in this sense.

Lelouch, Suzaku & Schneizel have now lost any shade of coherency and are quite umpredictable because of a poorly written show (same goes for Charles and Marianne, in a way, I haven't understand what was their real goal so far, even if I'm quite comfortable in saying they are shitty parents).
But where Geass fails - or at least sounds quite exaggerate - in the rendition of the protagonists, the chorality works out pretty nicely.

Minor characters are surprisingly coherent with themselves: a lot of them, beside being fighters, and so guilty, or at least responsible for what they did, are really noble and act accordingly with their values and moral code (Kaguya, Guilford, Tohdoh and his comrades, Li, Jeremiah, Gino in a way...); others might be biased by their emotions or by convenience, being aware of it or no ( Karen, Ohgi, Villetta, Cornelia, Diethard, Lloyd and Cécile, Kanon..?). Others, like Rollo and Nina, though being understandable in their emotions, push their lack of..humanity too far to fall inside his definition, and became unforgivable. (I don't care if Rollo redeemes himself in the eyes of the fans by sacrificing himself for Lelouch, he was still a psyco murderer that shot and killed Shirley just because she mentioned Nunnally. And Nina, too, I don't like at all the redemption path they opened for her in the last episode)
Others, again, could be considere quite innocent: Shirley, Milly, Rivalz, Tianzi, Nunnally ... maybe Odisseus and his sisters, but they are actually quite powerless.

Maybe Euphemia was the only one innocent but powerfull character of the series, and maybe her death also meant that the age of innocence and redemption through love, for the both Suzaku and the world, was lost forever.

[zinik-alexander.livejournal.com]

Yes, I agree with you. Especially about poor Euphemia, who had already won before the Lelouch's Geass went mad. It was like a hand of doom, a sign of impossibility to create that "gentle world", which so many characters from CG desire.

PS: I really think that Charles and Marianne were trying to achieve a nice world for everyone. And in the same time they were cold manipulative bastards and really bad parents.

[levy.livejournal.com]

I really think that Charles and Marianne were trying to achieve a nice world for everyone

I'm waiting for the series to end, to rewatch it accurately and try to figure out what kind of world they pratically want to create, because I'm still quite confused about it.

There is another character that I haven't mentioned so far that helds a distinctive position : C.C.
she might be read as an incarnation of fate and supernaturality, as she's the power dispenser and also acts with a timing that oftnely doesn't match the timing of human actions. Her role and eternity put her out of any possible grouping.

[zinik-alexander.livejournal.com]

C.C. is very mysterious, yes. But her goals and intentions and her past now are more clear, then earlier. And I think that we'll learn all the truth about her in the very end. Including her true name, of course...

[levy.livejournal.com]

(and I also want to apologize for the horrible amount of typos I did in my quite long reply... I'm a not native english speaker too and I was in a rush... sorry ^^;)

[vicks111.livejournal.com]

Odysseus, anyone?
The poor guy was a nice older brother, kind and NOT a sociopath/crazy ax murderer/with mom issues. I love you Schneizel, but I'll be damn pissed if you didn't save him from the Pendragon explosion. All your other siblings can die, except Odysseus. He had even joined the military gladly (he was geassed, but at least happy!)

Characters that I think are good: Kaguya, Milly, Odysseus, and Kanon. Pretty much everyone else has done something horrible to someone else (Kanon's bordering the line here)

[zinik-alexander.livejournal.com]

Hmmm... I'm not really sure about Odysseus. He seems very kind and a little bit stupid (for me), but he's a First Prince. He was a Charles' heir. May be, we don't know something about him. Schneizel seemed as a very kind and noble man too in R1.

And Kanon isn't innocent at all. Just because he is a Schneizel's assistant. He surely knows about his Evil Plans and helps to perform them.

[vicks111.livejournal.com]

Schneizel is still kind, he is just also crazy on the side (a bit). Odysseus hasn't done a thing yet to merit being pinned with the other crazy characters, mostly because he is stupid. I stand by Odysseus until proven otherwise XP

I didn't say Kanon is innocent. As you said, he knows what Schneizel is thinking and has helped on the schemes. I am saying, that for himself, he has yet to do an atrocity. Of course he is guilty for who knows how much, but his disposition seems inherently good. He is just more worried/in love with Schneizel than what his values mean to him XDD

I forgot Rivalz in there, and Arthur.

[zinik-alexander.livejournal.com]

Schneizel is a traitor and liar now. He betrayed Suzaku and his father. He lied to OotBK and Nunnaly. And yes, he's still kind to Cornelia, or some other people.

Kanon participated in betrayal of Suzaku, for example.

No. Arthur is a main villain, The Cat Geass. He stands behind the curtain of all mysteries.

[vicks111.livejournal.com]

haha, a traitor to the empire perhaps, but liar is still up in the air. What he told the Black Knights was the truth, and if he has lied to Nunnally is yet to be seen. Let's remember that both Suzaku and Lelouch have been lying to her all the time, and it seems that he is the only one that hasn't. Lie detector!Nunnally would know.

As for Suzaku, yes he lied to him, but someone as Suzaku should be expecting to be betrayed any moment. His web of lies can only last so long, and he shouldn't act so surprised when someone does it to him. As for the Emperor, well he deserved it and didn't much care about it. I also expect Charles to have known Schneizel well enough to know that a Coup could happen.

The Cat Geass in the mastermind and the final villain! He'll rule the world with an iron paw!!

[zinik-alexander.livejournal.com]

It was the worst sort of lies: a half-truth. But let's see. It's Geass, you never know what is going to happen.

Yes, you're right. Suzaku and Charles deserved betrayal. But the betrayal is always a crime and sin, that's how I think.

And everyone will behold his power, bow lowly and obey his eternal reign. Nya.
(And he's called Arthur. A legendary king's name. A sign it is!)

[bl-almalexia.livejournal.com]

In the end, Earth will be devastated by FREIJAs. All humans will die, except for Suzaku, who will be the only survivor. And then... Arthur will come and deliver him a fatal finger-bite! Humans will be extinct, and cats will be the new civilization... with Arthur as the Immortal Emperor of Catkind! LOLCATZ!