Why does fandom seem to hate Suzaku?

[epistretes.livejournal.com]

I have been nosing through the fandom for some time and I couldn't help but notice the rampant Suzaku hatred. So, I decided to find out why this seemed to be the case.

'Hypocrite' seemed to be the biggest complaint, but (and yes, I am a Lulu fangirl as well before you kill me) Lelouch is one, too. So I was wondering just what made Suzaku seem to be such a target of ire.



[Poll #929606]



I'm just interested to see what dynamics make people like or dislike certain characters in this series.

Comments

[halevy.livejournal.com]

I don't really Suzaku but I don't love him either. In the past episodes he's really gotten a plus on my side. In the beginning he was kind of boring to me. :/ I also disliked how everyone in this fandom believes Lelouch and Suzaku are OTP canon and bashed all the other characters.

I'm cheering on the side for Suzu/Euphie. *waves flag*

Anyway, it's always going to be like this in any fandom. Suzaku haters, Shirley haters, Mao haters, etc. :/

[halevy.livejournal.com]

I totally meant to say "I don't really hate Suzaku". :(

[lacus.livejournal.com]

I don't really understand it either, aside from the 'omg godmode' factor (and the fact that Lelouch is so mind-numbingly popular). D:

[epistretes.livejournal.com]

haha I love the icon.

Seems this board is fond of Suzaku, which makes me happy as most of the others I've seen are heavily anti-Suzaku.

I personally feel that Suzaku's sheer mind-numbing abilities are being shown for the simple purpose of setting him up to go versus Lelouch in the end. We already know Lelouch is much more intellectual than Suzaku, so Suzaku needs the brawn/speed factor to balance it out and they're highlighting it so that it doesn't come out of the blue. It also explains how he can pilot the Lancelot so effectively.

[spleen.livejournal.com]

I don't dislike any characters. Because I'm cool.

[implication.livejournal.com]

xD I really can't dislike any characters either. Either they amuse me, or I can sympathize with their viewpoint at least a little.

[kandycat.livejournal.com]

I actually like Suzaku's character. Even though he is kind of bland, I like his good nature and his kindness. Though I understand how people dislike his character because he's too boring and seems too perfect, but I like his screw up past. Ever since I watch that picture drama, my liking to him grew.

[ratiosu.livejournal.com]

Thank you for asking this!! I've been wondering about the ZOMGSUZAKU IS JUST AN IMATAUR KIDDO LMAOLMAO hate as well. It irks me really, when people go on forums and proclaim that they want to watch Suzaku die slowly and painfully. Then after a few episodes, they start saying that he's screwed up etc. Like they've never been a hypocrite a single day in their lives or not screwed up themselves. ._.

Mainly the complain is that Suzaku's viewpoint is too narrow, and his thinking too naive, simply because he believes that he can change the system from within. But these people can actually find new reasons to hate him with every single episode. One hand, they're saying that URGH he thinks he's Kira Yamato, lookit him struggle as he protect the people mwahaha sucker. And on the other hand, after another episode, they say WTF he just went in and didn't give a damn whether he'd kill these people whatta heartless Eleven. >_>";;;

Other people complain about him being too KIRAYAMATO godly. I have no opinions on that because frankly, I do dislike a certain character for being too perfect as well. X)

[epistretes.livejournal.com]

Its been something thats bugged me for a while, so I figured it was about time I posed the question.

It just seems people need to justify their hatred for him and other characters, I dunno why personally.

The recap ep was really what spurred me to ask this as people went crazy on some boards about it being so Suzaku-centric but I found it nice.

[fukou.livejournal.com]

[spleen.livejournal.com]

Well the anime focuses on Lelouch, so we don't... 100% know Suzaku's view point to begin with. We only seem to see a simplified version. 8D

[hylarn.livejournal.com]

I don't really care about Suzaku at all, which puts him pretty far behind the most of the rest of the characters, as I find most of them fascinating. As it is, he's the only boring character that gets much screentime. That might account for it.

[implication.livejournal.com]

=/ I don't understand how Suzaku's boring. He's one of the only characters other than Lulu we're getting backstory on.

[kneesocks.livejournal.com]

Just thought i'd put my two cents in.

I don't hate Suzaku, but he isn't my favorite either. I like him fine though, most of the time. D8; He lost a few cool points when he beat up Lelouch in..episode 12 or 13[14? o-o] though. xD; But that's because i'm a Lulu fangirl.

I can see why people wouldn't like him, and he gets on my nerves slightly at times, but I don't dislike him. And I looove SuzakuxEuphemia~ x3;

Uuh..yeah. D8

[implication.livejournal.com]

x3 SuzuxEuphie makes my teeth rot

[deadums.livejournal.com]

I like Suzaku. I think he has the potential to become an even deeper character - beyond the initial set up of best-friend who is naive and an overall good guy.

I imagine him to be quite anguished, and it seems that he is...I dunno. I think he's interesting. AND HECK, I'm fine with what Code Geass has been doing with its characters.

Shirley was sort of annoying at first, but she's been brought to an interesting point too.

[epistretes.livejournal.com]

I have to agree, even the somewhat annoying characters and ones I dislike have something interesting about them and are moving in directions we might not necessarily have expected and I like that fact. Its not predictable.

[mossygirl.livejournal.com]

I like Suzaku, but I do wish we could see a bit deeper into his rationale (I hope that'll happen later in the series). I think a lot of people are bugged by his seeming invincibility and narrow view of the world (he seems to miss a lot of what goes on around him). That bothers me too at points, but as things are, it'll be pretty amazing when/if he's finally defeated or realizes just how scummy Britannia really is.

(Also, I ♥ both SuzakuxEuphemia and SuzakuxNunnaly pairings o_o)

[oh-geass-no.livejournal.com]

I don't really hate Suzaku or anything. I just happen to get kinda annoyed with how he's Noodle Jesus Kira Yamato reborn impossible to beat. I mean, given his supah awesome mecha, I knew he wasn't gonna lose anytime soon. But running along walls and dodging machinegun fire kinda is a line to draw at. I just think he needs to lose a battle REALLY badly, or just lose period, that'll knock down his 'godlike' status of piloting and make him seem more... flawed? I dunno, I just think he needs to lose a battle sometime. Probably at the hands of Kallen.

As for favorites, uh. I think the fact I'm using this journal to comment here states plenty. I pretty much like the entire cast in some way, so no hatin' here outside of poking fun at the rest of the cast a lot.

I really don't have a burning support for any specific pairings yet, but I don't hate any either. Go go indifference.

[epistretes.livejournal.com]

lol, I play Lelouch at an RP myself. My Euphemia muse is mad coz shes been around longer but I'm hesitant to apply until we get a Suzaku. I might do it anyway, coz she is so much love.

I did find the machine-gun thing a bit odd, but I suppose if hes been trained for it all his life - judging by the picture book story that seems a not far-fetched judgement - then it makes more sense.

Suzaku's loyalty, or lack thereof.

[(Anonymous)]

I personally hate Suzaku because of his ridiculous stance on war and peace.

Granted, Code Geass hasn't given us the complete background on our "fave" Lancelot pilot, but given Mao's interaction with Suzaku, we seem to have received a few additional answers.

Pet peeve #1: Suzaku as a Britannian loyalist. WTF is up with this? If I recall correctly, Suzaku is by birth Japanese, and has links to the ruling family. So, with complete disregard of any filial or national loyalty, Suzaku ends up committing fratricide and willingly becomes a Britannian pawn. He has absolutely no excuse before his native people, given that he was responsible for the late Japanese prime minister's death, as well as becoming the trump card of Britannian brutality towards Area 11.

Pet peeve #2: Suzaku as a peace-loving soldier. Again, a few people have brought up Kira Yamato vibes, but at least Kira knew what the heck he was doing. Just as Kira fought against Orb during GSD, Suzaku fights against the "terrorists" in Area 11 rebelling against Britannian occupation. EXCEPT, Kira fought Orb's forces to prevent them from joining the ZAFT/Earth Alliance war, while Suzaku is merely fighting to "limit casualties to a minimum." Here, I cite the Shinjiku incident. Suzaku has no plausible reason, when we look at him fighting Kallen's forces. He is subduing the terrorists that are PROTECTING their families and civilians. Instead of growing a backbone, Suzaku is helping Clovis committing genocide in Shinjiku.

Pet peeve #3: Godliness in war. I don't think this warrants an explanation. His capabilities are too damn unbalancing when placing him on the board. Suzaku is like the chess knight that can hit 7 squares away and can singlehandedly beat the opposing forces pieces all at the same time. Ugh.

Finally, I let some of my Suza-hate out. :D

Re: Suzaku's loyalty, or lack thereof.

[epistretes.livejournal.com]

Usually I don't like to reply to anonymous comments, but I have one question of you.

Who is your favorite character?

[eevaleena.livejournal.com]

I've always love Suzaku and will always be.. I guess it's because he's more honest with his feelings? Sure.. he's a little narrow minded, and maybe I could say.. "naive ideals", but that's what I like about him. He didn't "hide" himself with the name of "justice", but I can see he's rather open with it. That's what I called "honest". Still.. I 'll always be by Suzaku side.. just like when I did Kira in SEED Destiny.

[pumkin-eater.livejournal.com]

Ditto~ ♥ You said it so well, I don't really have anything to add. Suzaku foreva!

[epicureal.livejournal.com]

Ah, Suzaku. I don't hate him but I find him very aggravating at times. It's like, every time he could be a normal guy with faults and everything he suddenly uses his Marty-Stu powers to magically get out of situations. If he'd just have some normalish faults that'd be good. -.-

Lulu is totally love because he messes up, can't run to save his life, and is too damn clever for his own good :3

[zalem.livejournal.com]

Ah, but Lulu is a hypocrite and knows it. In fact, he is purposefully being a hypocrite. He is portraying himself as an "ally of justice", but the truth is he doesn't give a damn about justice. But that's the point...he's only doing it because "everyone likes heroes of justice". He's trying to gain sympathy and support from people, so that is why he does it. Basically he's being a two-faced, manipulative bastard. :) But that's part of what I love about him. What can I say, I've always loved anti-heroes and villains. Plus it's fascinating to watch Lulu's transformation from a normal (albeit brilliant) school boy to essentially a villain. It's the same reason I also love Yagami Light from Death Note. Of course that doesn't mean I don't like "good guys", afterall I'm a big Gundam Seed Kira and Lacus fan.

But Suzaku does rub me the wrong way sometimes. I don't hate him, but I certainly want to bash his head in sometimes. His cluelessness is part of it. He's an utter hypocrite, but seems totally unaware of it. That and he's very self-righteous sometimes. That combination is pretty bad. I also think his plan to change Brittania from the inside is utter nonsense. Of course I'm sure he'll have some kind of enlightening moment...hopefully that is. Once he gets a clue I'm sure he'll be fine. I do feel bad for the boy, he's obviously had it rough.

[puchikonyo.livejournal.com]

*agrees* it's not that i rly hate suzaku so, but his logic, his self-righteousness does put me off D: it makes him seem so ignorant and hypocritical sometimes, srsly. <_____<

[the-sports-geek.livejournal.com]

My icon says pretty much all I need to say about this subject.

But, I'll add that judging whether you hate or like a character before a show is complete is kinda... dumb. I mean, yeah, you can have impressions of characters as the series goes along, but let's save the final "I hate/love character" judgement until you have all the information.

In the case of Suzaku... Yeah, I find him annoying at times. Yeah, I like Lelouch better. Yeah, part of the reason I like him is because he wears that flightsuit very, very nicely. And yeah, he has der UberSoldier powers, but at least he used those for good (episode 16) when given the opportunity. But, mostly I think he serves as a good foil for Lulu and there's that big elephant in the room, what happens when Suzaku finds out who Zero is? His reaction to that will do more to define his character than anything that has happened so far (if it happens in episode 17, gg's delay makes it so I don't know what happens).

But, until then, please refer to my icon.

[epistretes.livejournal.com]

That icon sums up my feelings about it so well.

Like you said, hes the foil. He wouldn't make very good foil if he didn't have similarities as well as differences with the protagonist. Its mirrored in Kingdom Hearts with Sora and Riku. Also best friends who end up opposed to each other and fighting, yet they share a lot of the same ideals - they're just working on different paths to achieve it.

[crackjaw.livejournal.com]

I find him ridiculously boring, personality-wise, and he shows up so often that I get kind of irritated, because I just don't care. (Yes, I know he's a main character. I got that with Gundam SEED too. By the end of the series I was ready to punch Kira in the face.)

Plus, I do kind of (slightly) get the aforementioned vague Kira vibes, and I couldn't stand Kira. :)

[cornflowercloud.livejournal.com]

Suzaku is my favorite CG character - so far (followed closely by - mmm - Euphemia or C.C. maybe? Still haven't decided on that, sorry). Why? Well, I simply find him a very complex and interesting character.

[S-P-O-I-L-E-R-S up to ep.16 and the special episode/'Picture Book', be careful, please! ^_^]

Suzaku has a dark past - well, you remember. The whole thing with his father and the fact that he used to be somewhat violent in general. And now his goals and ideals are almost sickeningly noble, as some CG watchers say. Yes, that's true, but that's what attracts me personally. He has tons of problems he needs to solve. He might choose a path of redemption, probably with Euphemia? I can see that happening. He might commit more crimes. Who knows. I just find his life exciting to watch and I honestly want him to... um, heal (as corny as it sounds) - if that's still possible for him. IMHO, Suzaku's fascinating. ^_^ And good-looking, too, but then again, CG doesn't have too many ugly characters.

Just my opinion here.

[cornflowercloud.livejournal.com]

Also, I don't think he's too similar to Kira Yamato, but that's a personal thing.

[kaorismash.livejournal.com]

Seeing all this hating on Suzaku makes me want to cry.

Okay, no it doesn't, but I'm just sad that a lot of people seem to dislike him when the first time I saw him I was flailing like some crazy person. But that's just me. :)

I won't say why I love Suzaku, or try to justify why people might hate Suzaku, or give reasons as to why people should like Suzaku, because really, everyone's made up their minds already and if the things said before me hasn't convinced them by now I doubt that anything I say would change it.

So I'll just say this: I love Suzaku more than I do Lelouch. =3

[pumkin-eater.livejournal.com]

Same here~ ♥ Flailing like a crazy person FTW! XD

[sweetening.livejournal.com]

What can I say? I love them all to pieces.

I think if I HAD HAD HAD to pick one, I would say I don't like Nina. 'Cause I don't. The table-humping to Euphie's picture disturbed me. o-o;

I personally love Suzaku more than Lelouch. Mostly because Lelouch makes me think of Light Yagami from Death Note.

Plus he's a sweetie. D: Nothing wrong with pacifistic sweeties.

[zalem.livejournal.com]

Ahahaha...see for me Lelouch reminding me of Light can only be a good thing. :) Though actually Light is way more evil then Lulu...Lulu still has some sense of humanity left (well...for the moment).

[rkold.livejournal.com]

Actually, I know I am in the minority, but I like Suzaku the best. It's not that I don't like Lelouch, I do, but Suzaku is really adorable.

I think calling him a hypocrite is really unfair.

[turtlesolar.livejournal.com]

Your icon kills me, I love it ^^ (and it speaks the truth...)
Completely agree with you too *cheesy thumbs up*

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

Seeing all the Suzaku hate and Lelouch love kind of fascinates me (like a trainwreck would fascinate me).

Lelouch and Suzaku are, in their own ways, equally wrong and equally right. I mean, in interviews, the creators have stated that Lelouch represents "noble ends" and Suzaku represents "noble methods." In some of the scenes where their points of view are pitted against each other, it becomes even more clear that these are two people standing on opposite sides of the truth, neither of them quite able to reach it on their own. (Personally, I think Euphemia will help bring Suzaku closer to the truth and Kallen will help bring Lelouch closer to the truth, since they seem to have more balanced perspectives, but that's just speculation at this point.)

Lelouch, for all that his methods have been fairly successful so far, rushes forward with his dirty tricks without fully comprehending the cost of them. When he does have to confront the cost in human life of his plans, he freaks out and nearly collapses--then he goes back to ignoring it and repeatedly sacrificing his allies. He seems incapable of viewing people as equals, only as things to use (Kallen, the Black Knights) or objects to protect (Nunnally, Shirley). He strings people along with the promise that he's doing it for justice, but really he's just trying--in a rather destructive way--to cope with his own trauma. For her own reasons, C.C. gave him the power to bring about change, but can he really create a better world with those messed-up motives and those dubious methods?

Suzaku, meanwhile, wants to end the fighting and bring about a peaceful world, but he's too trapped by his own guilt and self-hatred to step outside the lines and do so in an effective way. So he serves the very people who nearly destroyed his own people, desperately hoping he can fix his mistakes without causing more bloodshed. For his own reasons, Lloyd gave him the power to make a name for himself in the ranks and therefore eventually the power to have a positive influence on Britannian rule, but can his clean methods really do anything against such corruption and coming from such screwed-up motives?

While I like Lelouch much more than Suzaku, personally (although I like Suzaku a lot more after Stage 16), it's the way they're pitted against each other as foils so beautifully that really enthralls me. I've seen someone argue that we're supposed to hate Suzaku because "he's a great villain," but uh, villains are generally not nice, screwed-up guys desperate to save innocent lives. He's an antagonist, and so he's as screwed up as Lelouch, as wrong as Lelouch, but not more. That's what makes their fight so fascinating.

To get back to my original topic, the Suzaku hate and Lelouch love is particularly fascinating because it shows just how much who fandom worships and who fandom bashes depends on what perspective the show is presented through. What if the show was focused on Suzaku struggling with his inner demons and trying to reconcile his ideals with the fact that he was working for a corrupt empire? Throw in the fact that his best friend (who everyone slashes him with) was hurting people through acts of terrorism he believed to be the right thing to do...man. Everyone would rave about what a hero Suzaku was (possibly even compare him to Naruto and Ichigo and Athrun) and what an inexcusable jackass his best friend was for getting in his way with that terrorist bullshit.

I can just see it:

"Suzaku can freaking handle himself in combat; he knows what he's getting himself into. But stupid Lelouch runs into combat situations and then whines when he's not good enough to handle it. He's such an immature little brat. And he's a total fraud--he says he's doing this for justice, but it's all about protecting his stupid little sister and avenging his mother! But he's just so cool and all the girls are after him. Ugh, what a Marty Stu."

Fans get so invested with "siding" with one character or another, I swear.

[cornflowercloud.livejournal.com]

*claps* Great observation (or should I say mini-essay? ^_^) here. I especially love the little detail about Euphemia and Kallen's balanced perspectives, as well as 'noble methods' VS 'noble ends' - excellent choice of terms here. ^_^ Well, eh... I don't have much to add. ^^;

[hopefulgenius.livejournal.com]

I don't hate Suzaku. I really think he's a complex, interesting character. But could he please be given some depth? Sure, we know he's got a tragic past, and we know he's got a pretty tragic future coming ahead. But honestly, we don't know enough about him to know how he's gonna handle them. One moment he's one way, the next moment he's another. His brain is totally confusing and I can't follow his train of thought sometimes, but this could be because I'm more cynical than he seems (or am I? I can't tell.)

I just sort of wish he'd decide what he's going to do and do it. Which is why I like Lelouch better. I mean, the boys got a plan, and he's doing something while he can.

[sevetenks.livejournal.com]

Personallym I like Suzaku. He's a cool guy and all that. He's interesting, kinda cool, he seems like a nice guy, AND... I was not even aware there was Suzaku hate, or reason for there to be, until now. Go me. :|b

And all this comparing to characters from other animes is fun and all but uh... Honestly makes me go "what the hell". They're from different series (series that I myself have not seen so maybe that's why this is my opinion) so... so what? o.o

Also sup Nienna XD

[epistretes.livejournal.com]

I'll admit I was originally biased towards Suzaku coz of his seiyuu *cough* but despite that, if his character had sucked, I would have been put off.

Every character in existence can have parallels drawn with other characters. I honestly don't see the point.

xD; yo, Seve *pokes*

[mitzrael.livejournal.com]

basically and to not make things redundant, I just don't like Suzaku that much. I admit sometimes I just wish he were killed off and all. But what really pisses me off is that he doesn't seem to have the gutts ( forgive this Suzaku' followers) to make significant changes within britannia. It's okay, Lelouch and Suzaku took different paths to fight Britannia or more like thw world order but at least Lelouch knows how and when to make his moves. He manipulates everyone ( even without geass =_=;; ) and gather them under the "Justice flag" but Suzaku being almost a Knight ( already is since 17.5 XD ) hadn't make any significant add into britannian rows, I mean he could I dunno, hackjack their system, try to convince someone or I dunno just SOMETHING! and not just fighting blindly and following orders. mmm.... I really don't know what to think but for me a least his actions are far more screwed than Lelouch but we must remember that they are different characters and even if I kinda support the idea of Suzaku being at first glance a Syaoran/Kira Yamato reflection, I prefer Kira like 1000% more.
I also think producers are guilty, because when everyone come to compare Suzaku/Kira or any other character, well, Suzaku gives the impression to be an important character and yet his actions so far are from a secondary character, far away and not really as important.... mmm, hope I'm making some sense, but yeah I think it's most like people is feeling deceived by how Suzaku is being lead on the story and how they first thought he would be lead.... the result being totally different from what most of them has expected ( included myself )