Episode 19 discussion?

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Since the last episode discussion post went so well, I figured why not give it another go-around? My original plan was to post these on Saturdays so people had a good day to check out the raw and track down summaries and the like but since I enjoy the discussions myself and won't be around much Saturday, this one comes a bit early.

I'd also like to point out that I am extremely biased in what I talk about to start the discussion so if you have characters/topics you're more interested in, feel free to thread about them as well.



I knew the island arc would be entertaining, but I was hardly expecting it to be good. I love that Euphemia knew who Zero was the entire time but never told Cornelia because she didn't want to cause her sister any more pain by knowing it was their own brother fighting against them. I love Euphemia in general now. The scene where Lelouch and Suzaku are facing off and Kallen's basically calling Euphemia a vapid princess just before Euphemia tells Suzaku to forget about her and kick Kallen's ass, that was the first sign of Euphemia's edge that I've ever seen. I liked it. Not as much as Lelouch totally failing at survival life, unable to even dig a hole. Why were you born a man, Lulu? It was hilarious of the writers to continuously compare Lelouch's failures with Suzaku's leet fishing skills.

Though I agree with the anime bloggers that the Euphie/Lulu parts were hella better than Suza/Kallen. Suzaku and Kallen were just a world of bitchery, while Euphemia and Lelouch had connection and understanding, at least in part. I wonder how the knowledge that Cornelia is investigating what happened to Lelouch's family will affect his thirst for vengeance. With his family members each revealing themselves as decent human beings, Lelouch is losing more reason to hate them. What does this mean for his purpose in the Rebellion?

People say that because Lelouch showed friendliness to Euphemia, he's all up for siscon. I point out that Lelouch is generally nice to girls, and I think the flashback revealed that Lelouch's family had always been close to Euphemia. I think this was another reason he stayed his hand back during the hotel incident, the exact behavior that led Euphemia to believe he was Zero. I didn't pay much attention to other aspects of this episode until the surprise attack at the end because I think I need to really know what's being said in the Gawain and Black Knights scenes to truly appreciate them. Summaries are not going to do it.

I hope we get more of Suzaku's reaction to the whole "live" incident next week since he didn't have any character-revealing moments in his time with Kallen, aside from his telling her he killed his father. I think this is a big step for him. Words cannot describe how much I adore the way Lelouch GEASSed Suzaku. When I first saw the shot of Suzaku with the red-rimmed eyes associated with GEASS, I was sad because I thought Lelouch was finally favoring the Rebellion over Suzaku. I was extremely relieved to learn his GEASS command to Suzaku was simply "live." Others are talking about the command having a lasting effect, which I think would be smart of the creators, but I'm not sure if they're going to do it. In the past, we've seen the GEASS can last for an infinite time when a non-descript command is given. People ask why Lelouch didn't use multiple commands at once such as "Fight your way out of here. Leave Britannia. Join the Black Knights." I think the most obvious reason is that Lelouch wanted immediate action. He knew Suzaku was going to sacrifice himself to ensure Zero was destroyed, and had to revert that decision immediately. He probably didn't have time to evaluate all the possible commands. He never intended to GEASS Suzaku in the first place so it was a spur-of-the-moment thing.

I think the command itself shows Lelouch's continued loyalty to Suzaku, although I fully admit it also allowed Lelouch the opportunity to escape himself. But that was a gamble, and we're not even fully sure how that happened; it's hinted it has something to do with the unseen GEASS user. It seems to me Lelouch was more focused on getting Suzaku out of harm's way than escaping himself -- He could have told Suzaku to simply "Get us out of here"-- but I'm an optimist when it comes to them so I could be wrong. I wonder if the GEASS user zapped everyone to the island to simply put the Gawain in Lelouch's possession or if they know about Lelouch and the royals. I'm also unsure why Suzaku freaks out when the whole group is controlled by the GEASS teleportation at the end of the episode. Is he recalling what happened with C.C.?

Comments

[mitzrael.livejournal.com]

With those comments in mind I'm going to watch ep18 and then comment myself =P ( couldn't watch it yet 'cause of stupid exam in the morning _-_U)

tl;dr

[verity-isle.livejournal.com]

Somewhat OT, but what does siscon mean right now, actually? In J-fandom it usually means you're very attached to your sister or more liable to be much nicer to them than the rest of the universe, but it seems the E-fandom tends to take it to 'bordering on incestual'. By first definition I would put LL as a siscon...well, he's ALWAYS been a siscon, really. By second...I don't think it ever crossed his mind, though I wouldn't be surprised if Euphemia had a mild crush on him back in the day.

I agree, Lelouch-Euphie > Kallen-Suzaku. The best irony in your comparison : Kallen calling Euphemia a doll who can't do a thing herself. lol Kallen, guess who actually couldn't do a thing himself? I think my love for Lulu just shot over the roof AGAIN, if that's even possible. There's his sheer dorky cuteness in this episode that you wouldn't think possible, and there's his incredibly touching Geass order, which I also think would be a lasting effect---Suzaku's going to try his damnedest to stay alive without knowing what he's doing, which might backfire tragically sometime later like everything else LL does. And if Euphie was second to CC in my female character evaluation last time, she's top now. Euphie's "Wut u say!?" face is incredible, and Britannian Royal Imperiousness = Pwnage.

Why LL didn't Geass More Sensibly = Spur of the moment. Plus, I don't think LL wants Suzaku to go to his side with the Geass. He wants approval in the real sense, there's too much pride, and there's too much sadness. LL wants his action to have meaning, and it means nothing if he treats people he cares about as pawns, since they're the only line he has now between the Lelouch and the Demon Warlord.

As for Suzaku, I have not a clue. I thought he was recalling CC's event, too, since the power seems to be the same type...or perhaps there's something more. Hard to say. Has to love CC's "I told you I am not his lover" issue, though.

[tatooine.livejournal.com]

Lelouch's command to Suzaku was really interesting in light of Lelouch musing for most of 17.5 about how Suzaku possibly wanted to die, didn't care about living, was serving in the Britannian military as his atonement for having killed his dad. If "live" is going to be a long-lasting command, that'll have a pretty serious impact on Suzaku in the long run...

Anyone know what Lelouch said to Euphie about Suzaku? All I caught was his name.

[rukawagf.livejournal.com]

actually, i was more screaming "CLAMP!!! YOU COPIED GUNDAM SEEEEEEEEED!!!!!" XD

the fireplace night scene with Suza X Kallen is sooooo Athrun x Cagali at their island scene, all the way down to Cagali/Kallen held prisoner XD That and when Suzaku confesses "I killed my own father" that scene reminded me of Athrun saying "I killed Kira" to Cagali later XD ah well. it was still awsome XD


Personally I love Lulu's command "LIVE!!!" a lot. He didn't say "Make sure we all live!" or "get us the hell outta here" he said in a bit more unselfish way, and to help Suzaku's suicidal intents.

Now I'm curious, what Suzaku will do later when he's in danger. Would he try to follow the command blindly again? :P

[rukawagf.livejournal.com]

he said

"why did you make a non Britanian your knight?"

[rukawagf.livejournal.com]

i think he also said "What does Suzaku mean to you?" but i have to rewatch and hear the japanese again. I'm at work now so I can't help ya, sorries :P

Re: tl;dr

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I would really enjoy it if Lelouch's attempt to save his friend (and effectively himself) blew up in his face just like each of Lelouch's unconscious/conscious attempts to preserve his humanity in face of the Geass' power. I think what I enjoy about Lelouch other than his dorky failures at life is how incredibly broken he is at being what everyone (as in the fandom) wants him to be. He has all this power, he has crazy vengeance, he should be evil/a socialpath/Light. But instead he's this excellent, calculating strategist who freezes up when he most needs to take action. I love him for it.

I also like you opinion on why Lelouch doesn't want to win Suzaku over with the Geass. I have had this opinion since he found out Suzaku was the Lancelot pilot. Why does he keep approaching Suzaku as Zero? Why doesn't he try to win Suzaku over while continuing his role as Lelouch? Approval would be a good way to explain it. He wants his actions to be sanctioned by someone whose opinion truly matters most to him. Seriously, I am trying to be as non-slashy as possible but a fangirl is still a fangirl. Your point about Lelouch trying desperately to maintain that line between him and a warlord is also a good one.

I want to know what C.C. was talking about as far as Kallen? I still think C.C. has some latent jealous toward Kallen, even if it's just in a "why do you rely on her so much?" way.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Now threesomes I'm up for. They'd be so cute!

Yeah, I like how 17.5 actually had a purpose compared with many recaps since getting Lelouch's view on the situation ties into his actions at the end of 18. It's why I would like to believe that Lelouch deliberately chose it, though it might have just been a "at the back of his head"/unconscious wish. Lelouch severely laments Suzaku's apparent death wish. It would make for some interesting times if it is long-lasting, as I'm sure Lelouch would prefer.

Though if it is a standing command, it questions over the morality in Lelouch playing God over his friend. I know he does it with everyone else, but he seems to care much more when it's people he cares about.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Well, isn't it more of Sunrise's series than Clamp? Clamp just contributes the designs, which is turn contribute to overall tragedy of all the characters. XD

I forgot about the Athrun confession. You're so right! At least Geass didn't go all the way and make Suzaku and Kallen more tolerant toward each other after everything. In fact, I think Kallen dislikes Suzaku even more now, and Suzaku sure isn't as fond of Kallen. I love how he notes that Kallen is entirely different from how she is at school.

The command fits perfectly into my opinion of Lelouch being totally in love with Suzaku but that's neither here or there so let's just ignore this statement shall we. See my reply to crazythorn for more on my reaction to the meaning of the "LIVE!!" scene. ^^;;

[rukawagf.livejournal.com]

actually I think Suzaku likes Kallen. (not in love sense) More like he does admire her bravery? because Suzaku says "Is this how you normally act?" Kallen "Yeah, got a problem?" Suzaku "No. I think you have more charm/charisma with this personality. You should show it more often" and Kallen sorta hmphs and slightly blushes. it was sorta cute XD Suzaku said in matter of fact tone, not "omg i love you" tone. which was cool

I also think Kallen is blindly in admiration of Lulu. It isn't that she hates Suzaku, it's more like Suzaku is not against Zero so i think only in black and white! Suzaku is now bad! sorta thing :p

I also believe Lulu loves Suzaku. Probably not sexually per say (though we can always argue this too hehe) but he cares deeply for Suzaku a lot. I believe Lulu is a type of person who you need to earn respect. He will ignore you and use you like pawns, unless you earn his respect, then he'll go out of his way to protect you sorta....


Also yes the series is Sunrise with only character designs by clamp. but seeing how much the characters ACT like clamp characters... all the way down to, "Hey let's have a lot of beginning episodes of fluff and after that it's ANGSTY TIME!!!" i think sunrise does ask "so, how would this character act in this situation?" and with the answer they get, alter it so the plot and the characters fit again. sorta thing. my opinion though. Either way, Sunrise sponsored Gundam Seed, so oh well, Sunrise, yer copying yer own work again~~~ XD

Re: tl;dr

[rukawagf.livejournal.com]

That part, C.C. was like "wait, Kallen isn't back either. Why that pervert, he's gone off and got him in a situation where he's with a woman and alone, again" or something like that.

blargh, it's too bad i only watched this once so my memory of the japanese isn't great -.-;;; once i get back home i'll translate it more properly (i'm at work~~~)

[rukawagf.livejournal.com]

"it's more like Suzaku is NOW against Zero " not "not" my spelling error :P

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Oh I didn't get that out of the episode at all. I'll need to rewatch. I thought they were just acting more bitchy toward each other now that they learned they had warring views. But I can see your interpretation of Suzaku's reaction now.

As far as Kallen's viewpoint on Suzaku, that is what I was going to. Suzaku being against Zero makes Kallen all "GRR!!" toward him and the more he does it, the further he drives that wedge. Kallen is only a touch away from being crazy possessive of her ideal of Zero.

As for the love issue, I have an entire essay on this, based around Lelouch's narration of 17.5. I don't go into the sexual aspect because that doesn't interest me as much but moving along... I do like this idea of earning Lelouch's respect, and Suzaku did that from day one when he kicked Lelouch's ass. Suzaku is also special to Lelouch in both being his first friend and serving as Lelouch's remaining piece of his happy life in Japan.

The combination of fluff meets angst is very reminiscent of Clamp, isn't it? As is giving one character a potential death wish and the family "closeness." I do love your version of how the series is written. That would be hilarious if it were true. I think Sunrise has a reputation of copying itself but it does so in an amusing way so nobody really minds. After all, people do say Geass is a hybrid of all the Sunrise series, which sort of makes it its own whacked-out animal. I approve.

Re: tl;dr

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Awesome. XD Even better than I hoped.

[rukawagf.livejournal.com]

they weren't bitchy at all in my opinion... i think you'll understand it more if you watch it with translations ^^ that's all

basically kallen and Suzaku yell why they are on the right side, then kallen says I have to fight! That is what my brother would want. otherwise, my brother's death is meaningless etc. And suzaku reveals to her he killed his own father too, for peace.

Here you can see Kallen's eyes widen, almost in pity/sympathy, and then hides her emotion by being all huff and gruff, but it did get her attention. Kallen softens towards Suzaku after that.


And regarding Code Geass? from episode 1 I said this is hybrid of Death Note, X/1999, Tsubasa, V for Vandetta, Infinite Ryuvius, and Gundam seed. ... wrote an entire essay on it back on my lj looong time ago XD good gawd.

[rukawagf.livejournal.com]

oh and about stuff about CLAMP

the Contract that Lulu and CC make... even down to the way you hold out the hand, is like the Proposal that Fuuma makes to all the Dragons :P

the tiny little stuff like that makes me think CLAMP had a lot to do with detail work. my opinion only of course XD

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Hmm, I may have been slanted by the two anime blogs I read to have some comprehension of what's going on in the series. I don't think they put as much of an emphasis on the Kallen/Suzaku talk as you did. It definitely seems more worth my while now. This is good since Kallen's attitude in this episode was irking me, and now I can see there's more to it and that she wasn't just being a spaz. ^^;;

Heh. I need to read this essay.

You know, I hardly remember Fuuma's proposal to the Dragons. But we could easily go for the focus on the eye thing and how Jeremiah probably lost one of his. Or how about the abundance of both gears and feathers in the opening? Hey where's my sakura? For shame, Clamp.

[rukawagf.livejournal.com]

Hmm? really. Fuuma holds out his hand to take Kakyou to be one of his dragons. same with a few other dragons but Kakyou is the one that I remember best.

Also the EYE!! dang it CLAMP and the EYE!!! Eye things been going on since Subaru x Seishiro and now Tsubasa's Syaoran XD my opinion again where I think CLAMP had some hand in the plot line~~

And I thought Euphie acted a lot like Sakura and Lacus Hybrid~~~

CC definetly reminds me of the myterious girl from Infinite Ryuuvius o.o (Which is the series that the director of Gundam Seed did before GS and Scryed)

Lulu = Raito + Kamui
Suzaku = Kira Yamato + Syaoran

XD

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Completely OT but I just realized you were in that awesome DGrayman cosplay group from Katsucon. Since I was overall unimpressed by that con's cosplay, yours truly was the highlight of my day. ^_^

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I have to see Infinite Ryuuvius still. It's somewhere on my Sunrise list, probably somewhere after Fafner.

You forgot Fai in your eye scenario. Though his was arguably one of the sexiest eye incidents.

I always love that comparison at the bottom. It's everyone's initial one, but it's still the most awesome.

[rukawagf.livejournal.com]

hm i suppose. I was thinking I covered Fai since syaoran takes his other eye... but meh, as long as you got what i meant, i don't care

[rukawagf.livejournal.com]

lol oh erm thank you XD Though i think my costume was the most unimpressive among my group bwahahahaha XD

Re: tl;dr

[verity-isle.livejournal.com]

Actually, that whole part was...

C.C. : Thanks to your teasing, I had to talk to that tiresome man... *presumably hears about Kallen* Even Kallen is on the island? You have really bad taste, to [something I'm not sure] an observer."

Re: tl;dr

[rukawagf.livejournal.com]

there you go!!! I knew i was off on this one!

thanks! :D

Re: tl;dr

[verity-isle.livejournal.com]

I would say that he's preserving his humanity in the face of an unrelenting reality that has very, very slippery slopes instead. XD The Geass is just a tool, after all. I sure wouldn't want him to be like Light, though! Light is a been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. Lelouch is very much uncharted territory, and he's intriguing. Your summary sums that aspect of him up nicely and I have nothing to comment. <3

Lelouch's been wanting approval for a long time. He's been trying to get Suzaku to 'accept' the Kishidan since Episode 9, if you'll recall, though with very little success. XD I don't think he was even expecting SZK to join him at that point, but simply wanting a "maybe they COULD be right about some things". He's emotionally insecure despite being a really strong character.

See below. :D She didn't say much, but I don't think she was very pleased. The 'person she talks to' was teasing/asking after her relationship with Lelouch back in...12, I think, and he/she possibly thinks it's funny.