Code Geass Reruns

[gods-debris.livejournal.com]

The past 4 days I rewatched the entire Code Geass series (1st and 2nd) because my boyfriend had never seen it and Dan (one of his friends who has seen it) and I were making a lot of Code Geass references; and well... eventually my boyfriend's curiosity got the best of him and he decided he wanted to watch it.

But that's when I got an idea. I'm also a memeber of the Slayers anime community and a while back they had initiated a rerun schedule where they would watch an episode once every other day or once a week (I can't remember) and at the end of the day the person who set it up would post some screenshots from the episode and talk about some of their thoughts... what they forgot about, what they really liked, etc. Other members who decided to take part could post comments about what they liked as well.

So I was going to propose, as a community, we could rewatch the series. Perhaps one episode a week would be fine? It means it will take about a year to complete since there are 52 weeks in a year. In the first series there is a total of 25 episodes since 25 and 26 were combined into a 46 minute episode and in the second series there is exactly 25 episodes... meaning 50 total.

The rules are simple: if you choose to participate you do not move ahead of the schedule and watch the following episode. You must wait until the next week.

Lemme know if anyone is interested! Sorry about this sounding a bit wordy and rushed. I'm in a hurry but I wanted to get this out there because it was bugging me lol.

Comments

Re: , but...

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

I dunno, Lelouch has repeatedly demonstrated a pointed unwillingness to learn and change from mistakes if learning from his mistakes means actually having to stop doing something he wants to do/believes necessary. See also: "Rebellion is getting innocent people killed and hurting people who you care about" -> continuing rebelling in the exact same way; "Geass can lead to angst and loss of control and craziness" -> continues using Geass.

Zero's just another thing that Lelouch doesn't actually want to give up.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

For the most part, yes, Lelouch absolutely fails at learning the most crucial lessons until near the end of the series. But I also don't think Lelouch is attached enough to Zero to knowingly jeopardize Nunnally's safety. When he did it in S1, he thought he had everything covered. In R2, Lelouch KNOWS he's at a disadvantage. He says so in the first episode, that he needs to get more power to deal with things. And more power is not the Black Knights, as he already has them. More power was more like building the Black Knights through China, which is later R2 and works. Is Rolo more power? Not considering that Lelouch almost never uses him for those early episodes and doesn't even snag him until an episode or two before he actually learns Nunnally's position. Too many variables, and I don't see Lelouch gambling with Nunnally like that. Especially considering his constant breakdowns over her (see: longer response).

It's always been a hard sell for me, and it's become worst the more I've thought about it. In general though, characterization issues aside, bringing back Lelouch as Zero was a TERRIBLE idea of R2.

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

To be strictly accurate, Lelouch doesn't have most of the Black Knights at the start of R2; most of them are in prison, and he has to get them away before they are executed.

As for your "Zero is for Nunnally" comment above, I tend to go with Lelouch's comment when he's facing down his parents later on: Lelouch did what he did because he wanted to do it. Nunnally was just an important rationalization to himself, to justify wanting to do something so grand and terrible. Which is why he flips out when Nunnally is against him, because he actually has to face up to what he must of on some level feared, that it isn't what Nunnally wanted. Lelouch loves Nunnally as a person, but he also uses her as a symbol and an emotional crutch.

I think they needed to set up Lelouch as Zero in R2, so the handover to Suzaku at the end has more impact. Handing over someone else's position isn't quite as personal.

(I'm not denying there's some sloppy writing in parts - I agree on the Rolo thing. Wasn't it confirmed Rolo got a more heroic death than intended because some animators liked him?)

[nayami.livejournal.com]

This is true, but he had them when he lost the first time too. And in that scene, if my memory isn't failing, he's referring to what went wrong last time.

Oh, I agree he did things because he wanted to. But Lelouch also tells himself many many times that Zero is for Nunnally. It is his rationalization to himself, which is why I find him realizing Nunnally is in danger and then returning to Zero so... off. It is a clashing of two of his own thought processes at the same exact time. But yes, since it is really just a lie to himself, realizing Nunnally is against him crushes him.

And, as much as the whole Zero thing still bristles me, I can see the value of the impact when it comes to the handover. This is a good point.

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

I think Lelouch tries to tell himself he is less attached to Zero than he is (The whole "I felt dead..." stuff). It gives him a feeling of strength and power that just being Lelouch didn't really, so I can see him, in feeling powerless with the loss of Nunnally, just slipping back into it. At the very least, Zero makes Lelouch feel as if he can do something. Or maybe that and Ashford are just things that Lelouch is unwilling to give up, no matter how much these desires endanger one another. He can't rationalise it, so he just does it.

(Your criticisms interest me because I've generally seen things the other way around: That R2 started decent and "went bad" later on. I've never seen anyone criticize Lelouch as Zero in R2 before: if anything, they hate that when isn't Zero, as if Lelouch as Zero is how things should be.)

[fantasygirl49.livejournal.com]

sorry to jump in the middle like this but i disagree, lelouch being zero is a given cause his double persona gave him all that power he wouldn't give up that easily...

also lelouch fight wasn't just to create a better world for nunnally, it was to get revenge on his father evidence even after he loss everything: the black knight and when he thought nunnally died, he said he had to settle thing with his father even if he had to die trying.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Lelouch was willing to die as Zero. He is power-hungry but I also think Zero does not trump Nunnally. If Zero trumped Nunnally, Lelouch would not have abandoned his cause in S1 when he learned she was missing. This is the critical point of contradiction.

And yes, that is Lelouch's true reason. But not the reason he tells himself, which is the crux of where I see the contradiction. He tells himself it's for Nunnally. He even asks in S1 "what's the point if I've lost Nunnally." Things change in later R2 through development, but they don't apply to early R2, which is where I am focusing most of my frustration with the writing. So if Lelouch believes Zero has no point without Nunnally, why does he stay with Zero in early R2 when he doesn't even know where she is? megalomaniageek brought up some possibilities, but I would have appreciated being told this by Lelouch through some manner of scene, as usually happened with big Nunnally aspects in both S1 and R2. Otherwise, it does view very contradictory.

Again, this is heavily because the writers had admitted to changing things for the sake of the time slot. If I did not know that, I would be much more lenient.

In addition to my previous post...

[kusaja.livejournal.com]

And yet, ironically, some of us are more lenient (at least in part) because we know that (and, at the same time, do not know much about the alternative).

Particularly when you have the director himself (and others) telling us this about R2:

"If the lack of explanations this time seems to worsen the tempo, think
of it as a paring down."

Naturally, this isn't some kind of wild card that resolves everything wrong about R2, but IMHO it should make understanding the lack of explicit explanations and expositions for certain issues easier.

Even before reading this though, I never had any problem with the concept you're questioning and still don't.

To reiterate: Lelouch abandoned Zero's responsibilities as the leader of the Black Knights in the middle of a decisive battle, not the entire idea and persona of Zero.

Ideally, he would have hoped to rescue Nunnally and come back later to finish the job (not that there was any real opportunity to do so, in practice). You could argue his assuming the same persona once again was, thematically, an extension of that. As Zero, he brought chaos back to Japan and forced the Emperor to reveal his hand...which included learning about Nunnally's fate.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

It's just such a terrible excuse honestly. I understand why some are lenient, but it still makes me majorly bitter about the whole business. Also, while I have spent time making everything, including what I believe to be contradictions, fit into the box that is canon since that is the mission for every ficcer, I still enjoy the chance to express my frustration with them. Particularly when they can be compared with key episodes and a refreshed mind. That is what I meant by bringing up these things when paired with actual episodes. And this very discussion is exactly what I hope to get out of such perspectives.

And yes, Lelouch would have returned to Zero had he rescued Nunnally. But my mrr point is that Nunnally was not rescued during this portion. Again, I accept megalomaniageek's potentials, even though I stand true to the belief that it would have been less clashy had there been an IC scene instead of leaving a crucial thing up to viewer interpretation.

Like I said, that's not meant to be the final word on the matter either

[kusaja.livejournal.com]

Just an alternate way to look at it. If someone can afford to be less lenient because of it, there's no unfairness in making the same argument in the opposite direction. Same facts, two different interpretations.

But I definitely don't intend to suggest you shouldn't be frustrated by it (or by many other things). By all means, you're free (and welcome) to express your thoughts.

And it's not like I don't have my own list of frustrations and disappointments myself, even though they're probably never going to match yours 1:1...at least from what little I can already tell.

I absolutely agree about wanting to have a scene or two that would have set things up in a better way...which, unfortunately, goes for a great many developments in R2 even when they aren't actually contradicting something.

Giving us less explanations and less insight into the minds of Lelouch and the gang isn't a positive in my book.

Re: Like I said, that's not meant to be the final word on the matter either

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Oh, I mostly meant that I didn't want to imply people couldn't be lenient and that I just enjoy the dissecting/bitching.

But yeah, the main point, which I possibly buried, was that I love these types of discussions and look forward to seeing more of them during the re-watch.