ED Discussion

[cardslash02.livejournal.com]

Here's some copypasta from 4chan:

"Devil Wings: Show a willingness to ignore the repercussions of terrible deeds, and a connection with each other. Four characters have these: the grandest, Lelouch, the middle ground, Kallen, one fully grown wing, CC, and the weak single wing, Rollo. These wings are both a show in villainy and a connection to Lelouch, the most previlant devil shown.

Fake Angel Wings: There are two scenes with what appears to be ceramic angel wings. These must symbolize a false purity, an agenda beyond the true noble calling the wings seem to convey. Anya seems to lean on one, showing her possible faith in this false ideal, and VV spouts them.

True Angel Wings: In the lead here is Suzaku, the character with the most profound scope of making a better world without extraneous sacrifice, with brilliant white wings which out-span any other. Next is Anya, who has medium sized wings, showing she has a similar attitude to Suzaku and Euphie, yet her path is more developed than Euphie's own, whose wings are stunted, probably by her untimely death by the hands of Lelouch. The final character with angel wings is Rollo again, who seems in conflict about which path to take.

No wings: I would say it means that they either haven't found a path yet or genuinely don't let one mindset bind them down. Nunnaly, Zino, Cornelia, and the Emperor... by the characters like this, it also probably means that they aren't necessarily trying to change the world, but to just live life as life is given to them.

Gold Chains: Everyone has these chains. The amount a person is tangled is probably paramount on how much this person is held back by their relations with other characters. Kallen is chained like a dog, around the neck. CC's wing is tangled, showing her relationships hurt her effectiveness to Lelouch. Cornelia is bound only by her sword, as if she could give up all ties if she gave up battle. Suzaku's arms are tangled, giving a sense that his full might is somehow impeded by commitment. Lelouch has only a loop around his arm, most likely signaling Nunnaly, which is dangerously loose. Characters such as Nunnaly, Euphie, the emperor, and VV have hardly any restrictions at all, showing that who they are connected with doesn't limit their actions."

What do you guys think about this?

Comments

[powercorrupts.livejournal.com]

It sounds exactly like the sort of bullshit that Clamp would work into their pictures, honestly. It's all very interesting in terms of character analysis, but that sort of excessive imagery gets old after a while to me. It seems poorly used sometimes in anime, as though the artists care more about coming off as grandly brilliant as opposed to actually incorporating symbolism into their works. I suppose it's just the way it's done so heavily, with little subtlety to it. But then, I might be being excessively critical.

[keicai-ayan.livejournal.com]

The first thought my friends and I had when we saw the pictures that started this discussion was: 'Oh look, CLAMP is being CLAMP.'

I think it's reading a bit too much into things. CLAMP likes to play with the Devil/Angel motif in their art, which can be seen through several of their series (Wish, X/1999, Chobits, etc). They also have a like for chains, which can also be seen in X/1999 and especially in Gohou Drug. Really, I think it's more CLAMP having fun doing what they like rather than going that much into detail with the motif.

Though, if it is anything, I think it's most similar to their use of chains and wings in their X/1999 art, where devil wings don't necessarily mean the bad guys and the angel wings don't necessarily mean purity.

[rkold.livejournal.com]

Well, except in X/1999 I would say there is a certain amount of purity to Fuuma and a failing to deal with repercussions with Kamui. It's not like we ever see say Sorata or Yuzuriha with batwings, it's just Kamui, and considering he can't make a kekkai... Kotori also always has angel wings and one could argue she is the most pure character in X since she willingly sacrifices herself for the two people she loves most so they both have a chance for redemption and to prove that the future is not yet decided.

But getting back on topic,

I do think it's Clamp being Clamp, but they also do seem to go in for that sort of heavy handed symbolism, it's one of those things I love about them. lol

[keicai-ayan.livejournal.com]

Fancy meeting you here! :3

This is very true. My knowledge on X/1999 isn't nearly as broad as other CLAMP works, so my perspective is only in said limited knowledge from what I've seen, and of listening to friend's discussions on the matter. I think in X/1999 though, that it's often hard to pinpoint true 'good' and 'bad'; everyone has their reasons for doing what they do, which makes finding villains and good guys so hard in their work.

CLAMP is one for very heavy symbolism. But at the same time I can't see them getting as deep into it as the OP posted, especially as they only designed the characters. Of course, on the other hand they might be exploring their own views on the characters and the series and what those character's roles may be. That seems like a very CLAMP thing to do, imo.

[rkold.livejournal.com]

Hi :D (Are you coming to NY for the Dolpa >>; sorry this took so long, this week end was so busy ;;_;; )

I was at one time huge X fan though I've not gone through my manga since Clamp decided to stop writing new chapters ~.~ I would agree that for the most part it is hard to pinpoint "good" and "bad" though there are a few characters that are much more dark. (i.e. I love Seishirou but he's clearly "bad" and Hinoto seems pretty much to have been consumed by her dark side.) The majority of DoE though are not really bad per se though.

I believe at one point there were rumors that Clamp actually was somewhat involved with the story and not just character designs which would explain why Suzaku acts like an escapee from X lol

[eire-endellion.livejournal.com]

From what I can remember from X, the 'bad guys' were called the 'Seven Angels'; whenever Hinoto or someone referred to them they were shown as seven cloaked figures with angel wings.

I think. Maybe. I can't remember D=

Yeah, I also thought it was just CLAMP xD Wings and chains? They look cool! What other reason could there be?

xD

[darksage29.livejournal.com]

correction: they were the 'seven seals'. the 'seven angels' are the bad guys.

..people put too much symbolism in art. it sickens me. it's just the creator thinking it looks cool or something.

[eire-endellion.livejournal.com]

That's what I said, right? o.O
"the 'bad guys' were called the 'Seven Angels'; "

I agree. I just had to write a ten page essay on what some artists paintings meant. It was hard D=

[rkold.livejournal.com]

Sorry this took so long ;;_;;

Clamp does love the wings and the chains and the gears and feathers

Technically, the Seven angels aren't "bad" they just are extreme environmental terrorists. lol (It's like from the Britannian side I'm sure the Black Knights seem pretty "bad", think of poor Shirley who lost her dad.) I've not gone through my manga lately, but while we see cloaked characters with angel wings I don't remember ever seeing cloaked figures with batwings and as is shown in the last chapters of X published anything from Hinoto is really suspect.

The only definitive characters we actually see with any sort of wings are I believe Kamui, Fuuma and Kotori. (At least going by my two X art books) Kotori is the only character who always has the same type (angel) I would again argue that while Kamui is the protagonist, he is definitely somewhat conflicted and full of regrets and again, he can't make a kekkai.

Do I honestly think there is meaning in the ED pictures, prob not, but I think it is fun trying to analyze them sometimes to try and figure make guesses on where things might go lol and to make pretty lj icons!

[rewritten.livejournal.com]

CLAMP is being pretentious as always.

lol

But yeah, that copypasta makes some good points too.

[keele-san.livejournal.com]

The analysis seems to have very good points...

but I agree with previous posters; when I saw the ending, I thought: CLAMP is being CLAMP

But I think that CLAMP wouldn't over-analyze things before they draw... Idunno... Then again, they make good plotlines, so maybe they did a little thinking before drawing the illustrations

[hylarn.livejournal.com]

Doesn't sound too unreasonable, although good/evil with the wings is probably the wrong way to look at it. Besides which, we really don't know how much CLAMP was told about how the story would end up.

[madhatterpan.livejournal.com]

o: CC also has a collar going on like Kallen. Lulu just has a harem going on.

I also spent time studying their clothes, especially the characters who are wearing both black and white (Gino, Rollo, Suzaku).

Not to mention how Emperor and Cornelia both have those wing-like ..things..as part of their outfits.

You know what. I'll just be over here admiring Gino's navel.

[interstellar.livejournal.com]

Interesting ideas, even if I am leaning towards thinking it's just CLAMP being CLAMP. Still, a little overanalysis and looking for symbolism is fun. ^^ It might be reading too much into it, but it's still interesting to look at.

[auditoree.livejournal.com]

Euphie doesn't have any chains does she? doesn't that mean she's free (baaw)?

[rainbow-cnxn.livejournal.com]

My first reaction was "lolCLAMP". I'm not sure how much CLAMP knows about the storyline (I hear from some people that they were given the storyline beforehand and told to draw their character designs based off of that), but in general, I get the overwhelming sense that we're being hit senselessly over the head with the imagery bat right now. CLAMP's yelling, "Hey, look at the art! Wings! Black and white ones! It's significant!" but I'm still unconvinced that they even understand what their imagery means.

I think your theory is plausible except for this one bit that I disagree with.
In the lead here is Suzaku, the character with the most profound scope of making a better world without extraneous sacrifice
His fake persona might fit into that trope, but his post-Euphie self is far more "Devil Wings", in my opinion. (possibly as deserving or more deserving of those wings than Lelouch, even) But that's just how I personally interpret Suzaku's character. *shrug*

I bandied around with the idea that people with wings are dead or going to die. Not implausible, but the possibility of our two leading men dying while the Emperor survives is one that I don't like to entertain. The wing color could simply be factional, but then, why don't characters like Gino or Cornelia have them? *shrug* Who knows?

[gdmcrjunkie.livejournal.com]

I agree with what you said about Suzaku. The way I see it he barely was a "good" character in the first season and he definitely isn't now.

[madhatterpan.livejournal.com]

...I keep scrolling over to just stare at your icon and be gleefully pleased. Orange-kun~

[animegoil.livejournal.com]

Lol, yeah, while that is a lovely analysis, and applies very nicely (depending on your interpretation of the characters), I do believe it is mainly for aesthetics that certain things were done. For example, Cornelia's sword was just an aesthetically pleasing point to wrap the chains about because it leads the eye to that central point at the sword, whose angle contrasts with Cornelia and Euphie's pose. It just looks nice. Same with CC-- we seem to like her posing all hunched over herself, and if you're going to have an extended wing, it's the most logical place to drape the chains also-- gold and black, contrast, and balance. Etc, etc.

[grayhour.livejournal.com]

Y HELO THAR CODE GEASS/1999.

[ryosato.livejournal.com]

I think CLAMP uses this imagery both because "OMG PRETTY YAY WINGS!" and also because it does hold some meaning to them.

[arya3087.livejournal.com]

Personally I think the wings meaning is like this: Black wings -- those who are on the side of the Black Knights; white wings -- those who are on Britannia's side. Rollo is an enigma from this point of view coz we don't know what side he's on (hence both black and white wings)
But then again, there are characters that don't have any wings so I don't know what to say...

Or another "interpretation" would be, like others said, CLAMP's love for wings XD (And for chains too for that matter...)

[jczala.livejournal.com]

Interesting analysis. The meaning of the black wings and the white wings are explained well, including the portrayal of each characters and their role/path they take/will take. Well, CLAMP has a thing with wings. It's like their trademark. CLAMP is being CLAMP with the designs in the ending sequence and I'm amazed by it. I've also thought of the pictures for meanings and such.

[gatekeepers-21.livejournal.com]

Wow, that's a very detailed analysis... gotta love CLAMP.

[inulovinkit.livejournal.com]

I saw the images went "Wow, chains, bondage, and wings? Yep, this has gotta be a CLAMP."

I never saw any imagery in anything other that the wings (after reading X, its impossible NOT to see it). I just thought that CLAMP liked drawing bondage.

[redrevelry.livejournal.com]

I'm another person who thought "...o CLAMP" at the ending. I think they must've been going for some symbolism at least, but I'm thinking this is reading to far into it... I think the chains represent how they're all connected. The wings are probably there just to look cool. :P

[lizard-little.livejournal.com]

My 2 cents... ^^

It seems to me that the Wings are mostly in relation to the character's "allegiance" - Black Knights = Devil Wings, Britannia = Angel Wings.

Exception: Rollo seems to have two little sprouts of wings, one for each type... however, his angel (=Britannia?) wing seems to be losing feathers... (sort of "backward omen" meaning the opposite of what it may look like at first sight?)

[wishmasterfuuma.livejournal.com]

I’ve thought Lulu and Suzaku’s devil/angel wings have simply been because of their correlation to Kamui and (Not really) Fuuma from the beginning. In that case, I really, really do think it was just CLAMP going “Pretty people with wings~ Pretty people with wings~~~”

I think if you were going to tie symbolism to it, the only case I see is Rollo. But that's because everyone's wings are so different, here. It doesn't seem to be just angel and demon. It's angel, demon, ceramic, shreaded, pink... I don't see symbolism in pink wings.

Regardless! I disagree with the assessment of the chains!

When I saw the chains I didn’t immediately jump to any conclusions. I set all the pictures up somewhere that I could stare at them all at once and decided placement meant something, not just the fact that chains were there.

I did not come to the same conclusion about Lelouch’s chains. A loop around the wrist is not something CLAMP does normally. When CLAMP intends you to be trapped, you look trapped.

-Mad crazy fan of X that still stares at the pictures on a regular basis

The loop looks more like a lead for a dog leash, and considering he comes first, it makes sense that he’s tugging the rest along. But Lulu does not have power over everyone, so the characters tied in would make or break the theory. So who is wrapped and who isn’t?

Well, obviously, CC’s caught. She and Kallen have collars and are the closest to Zero. If he falls, they fall. If he succeeds, they succeed. Of course his ‘possession’ of them would be illustrated in the most obvious of ways. Otherwise, CC seems to be a little preoccupied with her other endeavors, the chains just inconveniently there, while Kallen seems much more free and accepting, going so far as to take hold of the chain that supposedly restrains her.

Nunally is not wrapped in chains. She is instead wrapped in ribbon, which CLAMP also likes, but no chain. She is not caught up in the insanity that is Zero’s plight. She looks blank, confused, completely untouched. And I’m sure Lelouch would like to keep her that way.

Rollo, on the other hand, is trapped by his foot. We don’t know much about him, but we can assume he can’t get away, whatever it is. Something has him linked to Lulu, regardless of whether he wanted to be or not. We’ll see if this enfolds in later episodes.

Onto the sisters! Euphemia is free. Euphemia is no longer caught in Zero’s web. We all know why. Cornelia is only caught by her hand in battle, and is otherwise left alone. Other than her role in the army, Zero has no interest in her. Last season he got what he wanted.

The knights of the rounds don’t seem to really care. The chain’s barely there and where it is, they don’t mind. Wow. They’re so passionate. But really, Zino looks like he’s up to the challenge, whatever it is. And Anya just looks bored and disinterested.

Now, VV and the emperor aren’t hindered by their chains at all! They’ve got chain everywhere, but it seems instead of being controlled, they are controlling it, themselves. Makes perfect sense to me.

Suzaku is the most bound by the chains. Even more bound than the girls with collars, because while the chain is around them, it’s not tight and it’s not meant to hurt. But here Suzaku is not just wrapped; he’s outright restrained and tied down by them. There isn’t a loose chain there. And who is Zero’s best enemy, worst friend, and all around obsession?

But as far as outfits go, in my experience with X, they don’t mean much. I think CLAMP just decides whether they want something ripped or not, what color, what style, and goes from there. State of dress is more important than dress. And even that’s not always important, ‘cause sometimes they just like to show their fans some skin.

I’d like to mention I’ve read a lot of CLAMP and my favorite part has always been staring at the art books.