It's so great to see our community activity with things aside from icons and RP ads again. All this discussion makes me a very happy Geass fan. But I still love my epic posts so here's another one. As always, no character bashing or I will eat your soul. I hear they go quite well with bread pudding.



It was refreshing to finally have an episode that gave us a chance to breathe and wrap out heads around some things without reeling from the OMG SHOCK of a moment before. I admit I was completely against an Ashford episode from the start and still believe that the plot should be dropped sooner rather than later. We were promised a world stage and yet we have yet to escape Japan. Much the same as Lelouch. Suzaku seems to be the only one with true freedom, but even that is debatable. I also think that this episode did a decent job of paralleling last season but to a much less irritating extent than previous ones. I still whine that all Lelouch did was sit on the horse. TEASES.

Since everyone is all over Rollo, I will deal with him later and instead put the perplexing issues of the episode to the forefront. The largest of these being GEASS. In Turn 2, we hear the Emperor tell Suzaku that only he knows about geass. I'm guessing this means he's the only KotR to know about geass. Clearly, other people do, although they may not know the full extent of the power. Villetta and Rollo chat about it. They also apparently bank on Lelouch's reliance on it it, a very poor move on their part, as most of Lelouch's building of his army was done without the use of his power (I will acknowledge winning them over was done through the geassing of Jeremiah and the rescue of Suzaku). Whoever is advising them that Lelouch abuses his power is working off a biased scenario. Is it Villetta's? Is it the Emperor's? Is it Suzaku's? Their observation itself is terribly hindered by the belief that Zero would immediately take action if Lelouch was back to his old ways. Again, the crew is not entirely playing with a full stack of cards. But I doubt the Emperor is this sloppy. And it's rather convenient that nobody knows what happened within Babel Tower if both of the group were apparently striving for the same thing.

I also have nit-pickery with Lelouch this time around. While I understand that the student council all had their memories rearranged to remove knowledge of Nunnally and Zero, meaning that Shirley was probably geassed a second time (a cop-out way to deal with the issue of her remembering things last season), Lelouch fully remembers what happened. I find it interesting that Lelouch is still willing to use Shirley to lure out Rollo and his other followers, knowing what he already put her through. I could even forgive this behavior, as Lelouch has always shown himself to be of the "ends justify the means" mindset if not for his later reaction. Upon Shirley pointing out the cable car, Lelouch suddenly feels guilt. Why was this guilt not present before? Did he conveniently shove it to the back of his mind? I fully believe that he feels responsible for what happened to his friends and wants to avenge them, but the combination of these two elements sat extremely awkwardly with me. It was almost like an afterthought. Even if Lelouch wouldn't know a date if it bit him on the ass, he knows how Shirley feels about him so agreeing to go do something with her would clearly count as playing into those feelings. Lelouch, you are a bastard. Though, I will add he was certainly hot when he was joking with Shirley about the spectacular trick he was going to play on the council. Talk wicked to me, baby.

People have pointed out Villetta's conflicted reaction to Ougi's fate. Interesting now that Villetta has some of the power she sought, noted by the surveillance members all referring to her as "lord." I am not sure how I feel about this since the Ougi/Villetta storyline was not one of my favorites. My interest in this is that Villetta seems somewhat... compromised and none too agitated by her role at Ashford. I would have thought a teacher would be demeaning for a warrior.

While we're exploring Britannia, we should also take a moment to brush over Schneizel and Suzaku. Some people have made some good comments about Suzaku's fight with the EU, particularly his focus on disabling rather than killing the pilots. Even if his words come across harsh, practically demanding their surrender, something feels different about this fight than his previous ones. Also Shinigami. I wonder if Suzaku did not earn the name from his homicidal battles in the Black Rebellion. There was no such quarter given then, and for good reason. Whatever Suzaku is after, there is a sense of weariness about him now. His final question to his opponents is whether they still want to continue fighting. Yes, Suzaku, may be different now, but his issues with outright killing seem to be a new spin on his old preservation. There could even be a degree more sanity involved in this style. Schneizel, who continues to be our red herring, alludes to as much when he talks about Suzaku bringing a sense of responsibility and conscience to the field. Ironic description for someone who would betray his own friend hmmm.

Lelouch has also returned to genuinely focusing on Nunnally, something that was missing quite heavily from previous episodes, and something that irked me. We see that he holds back because he's afraid of her being used as a bargaining chip, we see how resentful he is that the council has forgotten her and we see the rage toward the brother that replaced her. The locked, as some have suggested, was most likely a gift for her, purchased early, and then given to Rollo after Lelouch's memories were wiped. Hence, Lelouch's comment that a locket doesn't truly suit a boy. Ouch, Sunrise, giving them the same birthday. This is also where I point out that I love Lelouch's quiet, deadly rage when he makes this realization. Even if that one later frame was totally stole from the scene where Lelouch is watching Suzaku and Nunnally while deciding to tell Suzaku to be Nunnally's knight. As always, the majority of Lelouch's rage is turned toward his father.

Further following my attempt to sort out Lelouch's current thoughts on Suzaku is Lelouch's casual remark about Suzaku taking Arthur. Of course, it's adorable because it shows that Lelouch loev the kitty, as we all already knew. But that Lelouch automatically jumps to knowing that Arthur is with Suzaku is equally noteworthy. I have seen theories about Suzaku taking Arthur because of the cat's connection with Euphemia, thus Suzaku wanting to keep everything about Euphemia as far from Lelouch as possible. And here, I think Lelouch understands this. For his words are not bitter but a simple observation, an understanding as Lelouch always tries to boil things down to. Oh yeah, Lelouch also mentions Nina, which I assume is because she was another staple of Ashford that is now missing.

I am loving the theories I've seen floating about Rollo. While I was already intrigued by Lost Colors, the boy totally won me over with his shanking the Britannian guy and his later freakout in front of Lelouch. I am guessing Rollo is in a way a trained weapon because of his power. He may have been kept from people for a better part of his life or at least raised in a way that he felt perpetually detached. He doesn't care too much about following any orders but a prime directive, as seen in his killing of the guy who walks in on the secret of the geass. There is also his ability to switch modes, especially his creepy departure from the Chinese Embassy. I do buy into the notion that Rollo grew accustomed to his familial relationship with Lelouch and even started to believe it. He seems absolutely shocked in the scene where Lelouch gives him the locket and later reaffirms to himself that birthdays are important to people, furthering his belief that receiving the locket was a big deal. Add to that his total panic at losing it, at losing this reminder that he has family. Lelouch gave it to him! I love the raw emotion in his eyes in this scene. And his later confusion as Milly talks about Shirley possibly joining the family.

It is also hinted that Rollo doesn't want to give up his fake life, seen in Turn 1 with him trying to keep Lelouch from returning to his old ways and his attempts to convince himself that Lelouch can't possibly be this Zero in Turn 3. I especially love the way he still calls Lelouch "nii-san" because of his panic in the mall when he tries to reach Villetta. As always in geass, only an especially vicious catalyst manages to break the bond, with Rollo reverting back to "Lelouch" when Lelouch pulls a gun on him. His final words also speak to his take on his own power, referring to the geass as a "demon's eye." Perhaps Rollo resents what has happened to him because of his power; it can be suggested he is unstable with it at times. I guess here we can also toss in questions about who granted Rollo geass and how long he's had it. We've seen from Mao that geass can be given at a very young age, which I think is most likely with Rollo. But he also has managed to keep his control of it, possibly through outside influences.

I also want to give a shout-out to the music in this ep. "Masquerade" and also the cheesy but still amusing dramatic piece that plays out in the mall. I enjoyed. And I don't care what anyone says, I loved the cat-fight between C.C. and Kallen. I want more. It's not just fanservice; it's the development of their relationship, which was severely overlooked in S1.

Nope, no easy questions for you guys this time. They be in the analysis itself.
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Date/Time: 2008-04-23 00:22 (UTC)Posted by: [identity profile] realms-of-life.livejournal.com
That's true, but I think the year with Rollo might have affected him somehow (it's another crack theory, mind you). Lelouch retrieved his memories, but that doesn't mean the missing year never existed. For a whole year, he was Rollo's brother - he dined, studied, slept under the same roof as him - he probably even had memories of their childhood together. His relationship with Rollo might have become a habit because Lelouch does relate to people who are close to him. It must be a confusing experience, to know a whole part of your life has never existed in the first place, and to remember the "real" facts to prove that. Even if Lelouch is discarding the whole deal at this point for practical reasons, I think the missing year will be something he will have to deal with later, and Rollo is part of that.

Also, there is a difference between Nunnally and Rollo, which makes Lelouch treat them differently and develop different feelings toward them, locket notwithstanding. Rollo is not blind and crippled. Rollo was not psychologically damaged by his mother's death. he is very protective and doting when it comes to Rollo, but not obsessively so. Lelouch would never allow Nunnally near the Babel Tower because he treats her like a defenseless child a(his child, actually) and his raison d'etre. He wouldn't even let her be part of his scheme to fool Villetta. Rollo actively tries to keep him out of trouble as well and Lelouch accepts that as a given. His interaction with Rollo was more similar to the sort of interaction one would expect from siblings. The problem is: it was not real. I wonder how Lelouch - once he starts talking to the real Rollo - will deal with this and if the authors will have time to play with that at all. In fact, most effects of the missing year in Lelouch's characterization have not been explored so far. Again, I hope they will be addressed at least in the sound episodes.
Date/Time: 2008-04-23 01:01 (UTC)Posted by: [identity profile] wishmasterfuuma.livejournal.com
You just touched on something I thought.

I had assumed the erasing got rid of Suzaku as well as Nunally, which in my head meant they'd have to be rid of Arthur 'cause he'd be hard to explain without Suzaku. But since everyone was saying things otherwise, I was thinking I missed something, somewhere. Did I? Did we?...

And then you hit on something else that bugs me. Why did Suzaku resist talking about Euphemia for, like, ever? And it's not just to Lulu; he wouldn't talk about Euphemia to anyone. That's weird, to me.
Date/Time: 2008-04-23 01:11 (UTC)Posted by: [identity profile] realms-of-life.livejournal.com
See, that's a matter of personal interpretation based on subtext, like knowing that Lelouch liked poetry before he was actually shown reading some. So we could argue about this forever and ever without never getting anywhere, so please, if you dislike the Euphemia theory just ignore my rambling. :-)

I do believe that Suzaku dwells a lot, and I think subtext shows it. I totally agree that he might have wished to forget what happened and move on, but he carried that watch with himself - on his person. He was, indeed, very afraid of being found out. Take his conversations with the Britannian shrink, with Lloyd, with Mao, with Todou. Take his reaction to Lelouch's betrayal in the sound episodes - he implies Lelouch's fall is his fault for never telling Lelouch he killed his father... Suzaku's perception of cause and consequence goes way back. I do think Suzaku has a strong relationship with the past and he is shown many times talking or thinking about past events in canon - even pointing out embarrassing childhood incidents to Lelouch's discontent. Lelouch, in fact, is the one who keeps pushing the past away even when he is holding a seven years grudge and is searching revenge - he stops himself from thinking further about the throne room incident, he refrains from talking about Euphemia as a child, he stops himself from thinking about Euphemia's murder and what that made to his relationship to Suzaku - all this is quite literal in canon. He does reminiscence about his mother in a more willingly way, but they are always happy memories, and something he deeply share with Nunnally. So yeah, it's mostly subtext and hard to defend or attack. So I guess that, in the end, it is a matter of personal opinion. :-)

Again, I must stress that this kind of analysis doesn't imply that Lelouch refrains from connecting to the past and that Suzaku just lives there. That would be insane. I'm just talking about general tendencies I see in those characters.

Same thing could be applied to Arthur and Euphemia. As Nayami likes to point out, Geass characters are masters of projection and Arthur's connection to Euphemia was very emphasized in canon (both in anime and sound episode). Euphemia's death plays an important role on what Suzaku did to Lelouch - he is wearing his Knight uniform and Euphemia's emblem not only in the cave, but also when he sells Lelouch to Charles. Not to mention that it is Euphemia's death that triggers him into a brand new character development. I think it is highly possible that, yes - among other many other factors you have mentioned - he was thinking of Euphemia when he took Arthur away from Euphemia's murder. Again, that's my personal interpretation based on what I've seen from Suzaku's character so far. I think Suzaku would totally do that. And I agree that any other interpretation is equally valid considering the few things we know about him. Also, Suzaku is full of surprises.
Date/Time: 2008-04-23 01:21 (UTC)Posted by: [identity profile] sapphirus.livejournal.com
As far as I know, we didn't miss a thing. I watched the episodes a few more times and there's just nothing about Suzaku, Nina or Arthur. :/

I think, for one, that it was because Euphemia is obviously Britannia royalty whereas Lelouch and Nunnally were (officially) both outside of the succession line. But the other...is probably because he was being a boy trying not to speak of his crush lest he wished to get teased by everyone. Lelouch was absolutely flabbergast (and enraged, of course) when Suzaku suddenly became Euphie's Knight too. So... I just don't think Lelouch knows of any Arthur -> Euphie connections.

Edit: Or [livejournal.com profile] nayami has a better explanation for the latter.
Edited Date/Time: 2008-04-23 01:35 (UTC)
Date/Time: 2008-04-23 02:21 (UTC)Posted by: [identity profile] wishmasterfuuma.livejournal.com
Alright. I needed to clarify so that I wasn’t arguing something you already knew. Then I’d feel foolish. But I don’t see Suzaku’s selling Lulu as betrayal. I see that one as getting what was coming to him, and I’m hoping Lulu understands. Suzaku’s betrayal is a lot earlier, to me.

I'm not sure I agree that Lulu didn't trust Suzaku in S1. Wasn't the situation with Mao proof that he did totally trust Suzaku? And he tried to understand Suzaku; he just failed. Can you really blame him for not getting what's going on in that boy's mind? I mean, none of us get it and we're watching from the outside. Srsly.

The only thing Lulu kept from Suzaku is Zero. And Suzaku's an idiot if he thought Lulu would come out and say, "Hey, yo. I'm trying to kill your supervisor." That just wouldn't end well. Not to mention it's actually a safe guard, leaving people in the dark. Otherwise Suzaku would have had a responsibility to stop him and they would have ended up fighting each other earlier. Lulu was hoping he'd never know.

Every time someone at my mom's school ends up in a court battle-and this happens a lot because she teaches in Miami-she always goes up to the person, when everyone else is asking for details, and says, "Don't tell me. I don't want to know. I don't want to have to testify against you in court." Suzaku's obviously still a little young if he doesn't see the value in that stance.

Lulu was looking out for him. In his position, the more people around him know, the more in danger they are. Shirley and Kallen are perfect examples of this.

I'd even venture to say the one who was keeping more secrets is Suzaku. Lulu had to find out as Zero what Suzaku's been spending all his time doing. It's one thing to keep the fact that you're a terrorist from someone; it's another to keep totally legal, noble deeds from someone. Why didn't Suzaku tell Lulu that he piloted a knightmare? Why didn't he talk about meeting Euphemia? I'd feel pretty shocked and betrayed, too, if I thought someone was protecting me only to discover later that it was for someone else's sake, not mine. Here, Lulu thought Suzaku's devotion was to himself and Nunally, and then in one fell swoop that security rug was yanked out from under him. No duh he wouldn't trust him after that. Lulu couldn't be sure where Suzaku's loyalty was, and he'd been getting lots of fun little tidbits of evidence pointing toward the military over himself and his sister.

Ah, but Suzaku doesn’t see it like that.
Date/Time: 2008-04-23 03:17 (UTC)Posted by: [identity profile] realms-of-life.livejournal.com
I feel very awckward about passing moral judgment on fictional characters, so I will not argue about who betrayed whom and when because that is a very subjective discussion to me. XD But, from their point of view, I do believe the boys are not very rational when it comes to this. Lelouch's question "Are you going to sell your friend to achieve this?" suggests a perception of betrayal to me. Lelouch doesn't see Britannia - or Charles - as a legitimate authority to punish him - and this legitimacy is questioned back and forth in the show. He had seen Suzaku as a friend, tho. Suzaku doesn't want to believe Lelouch is Zero, and when he can't ignore the truth any longer, he feels betrayed and then calls him a liar - "you betrayed the world, the world is going to betray you." So yes, I think the whole situation was very much about betrayal in their minds, as irrational as that might be - betrayal as a personal offense and failure to meet one's expectations - and I don't think they are keeping tabs on who was the biggest liar. Geass doesn't provide easy answers. I do think that Lelouch forgives Suzaku more easily than Suzaku forgives him tho. It's in his character.

You are totally right about Lelouch not talking about Zero to Suzaku being a form of protecting himself AND Suzaku. Also, as Zero, Lelouch tries to turn Suzaku against Britannia many times, and as Lelouch, he is very attentive to Suzaku's views on Zero. Still, he hoped after hoped that Suzaku would side with him until the very end. And that's another lovely paradox, imo.
Date/Time: 2008-04-23 03:47 (UTC)Posted by: [identity profile] realms-of-life.livejournal.com
Wow, thank you. I was trying to put my finger on it, but you said it better than I could. I do agree with your take 100%. I think that is the best thing I've read in a while:

They are both liars and manipulators. They are sinners. And they betrayed each other even as they looked out for each other. Theirs are crimes of omission and whether one is more justified than the other is irrelevant. Suzaku ultimately betrayed Lelouch by not standing by his side as he had always promised him since they were children, and Lelouch ultimately betrayed Suzaku by shattering the one thing Suzaku had left to hold: his faith in those he loved.

And yes, omission is such a HUGE issue in Code Geass. We must always look at what is not happening, what people failed to say or do, what is missing in a scene - like Lelouch never asking what Suzaku has been up to in the last seven years. Sometimes what is not there tells more about the characters than anything else.

Date/Time: 2008-04-23 05:16 (UTC)Posted by: [identity profile] vspirit.livejournal.com
Oh yeah, as far as Britannia's concerned, Lelouch is presumed dead as a casualty from the first war, huh? Totally forgot about that.

Well, the breaking of bond thing is merely conjecture on the fan's part so it may or may not be accurate. Perhaps he did it precisely because he didn't know? After all, Suzaku's a third party in that scene and he probably assumed that as a third party, he'd identify Lelouch with his Zero persona more. The fact that Lelouch /is/ Zero is known to only a very select few anyway so everyone else would still only know Zero as the masked terrorist kind of facilitates this theory, I think.
Date/Time: 2008-04-23 05:20 (UTC)Posted by: [identity profile] vspirit.livejournal.com
It's not a "bit" of a clash, though, else I wouldn't mind sneaking it in. Fact of the matter is, I don't have a problem with what Lulu did to Shirley. At all. Not even on the hypocrisy side of things. But I don't really want to be torn apart by five people at once. Oo...

Haha. Then you have me at your side, at least. I don't find anything wrong with what he's doing either cos as far as I'm concerned, he's just doing what he does best and if he suddenly stops, he'd be hypocritical to his very belief, which is the core of what drives his actions, and ultimately, the plot of Code GEASS.

I think it's really okay to voice your opinion, so long as you don't veto or ignore others. ^.^
Date/Time: 2008-04-23 05:29 (UTC)Posted by: [identity profile] jusrecht.livejournal.com
Well, the breaking of bond thing is merely conjecture on the fan's part

And we're so deluded that we can't think straight anymore XD Charles is an enigma. He seems like a character who knows everything and yet we can't be sure because the series hasn't told us clearly.

Need. Episode. Four. Now.
Date/Time: 2008-04-23 12:27 (UTC)Posted by: [identity profile] vspirit.livejournal.com
Need. Episode. Four. Now.

Need. Chapter. Two. And. Chapter. Six. Respectively. NAO.
Date/Time: 2008-04-23 13:17 (UTC)Posted by: [identity profile] furato.livejournal.com
Schneizel continues to elude us. Yes, he supported the SAZ, knowing that it would cause Euphie problems, but he also displays significant shot when the massacre begins. So the theory that Schneizel is two-faced isn't exactly evidenced yet.
I don't think Schneizel wanted a massacre, and he definitely wouldn't expect Euphie to be the one ordering it, or dead. Even more so when we've read the Sound Episode "The Imperial Siblings". The only one happy with how things went is probably just the Emperor.

But with his sudden plans, keeping things hidden from the Emperor and Cornelia, there's definitely some politicking there.
Date/Time: 2008-04-23 15:28 (UTC)Posted by: [identity profile] jusrecht.livejournal.com
Ara... Chapter two and six?
Date/Time: 2008-04-23 17:28 (UTC)Posted by: [identity profile] vspirit.livejournal.com
...er. Yes. Chapter two and six.
Date/Time: 2008-04-24 07:50 (UTC)Posted by: [identity profile] jusrecht.livejournal.com
Umm... here? (http://jusrecht.livejournal.com/4965.html#cutid1)
Date/Time: 2008-04-24 12:53 (UTC)Posted by: [identity profile] vspirit.livejournal.com
*grateful and relieved face* Oh yeah...that's good. That's /so/ good. That scratches the itch. Quite a bit.

*mean face* Now where's chapter two? And seven had better be coming soon cos, you know, *accusing face* you're to blame for my addiction.
Date/Time: 2008-04-24 13:32 (UTC)Posted by: [identity profile] jusrecht.livejournal.com
The itch demands to be scratched XD

And since I still have no idea what you mean with 'chapter two', you will have to explain it first. Good to know that I can make people addicted. Muahahahahaha.
Date/Time: 2008-04-24 15:09 (UTC)Posted by: [identity profile] vspirit.livejournal.com
what?? whadayamean chapter two of what?! chapter two of...never mind. I checked and just now saw the huge "end" in bold. *facepalms*
Date/Time: 2008-04-24 15:09 (UTC)Posted by: [identity profile] vspirit.livejournal.com
please...there /has/ got to be more where that came from...
Date/Time: 2008-04-24 16:27 (UTC)Posted by: [identity profile] jusrecht.livejournal.com
You don't mean Fairy Tale, do you? Because Infinity is the sequel ^_^*
Date/Time: 2008-04-24 18:24 (UTC)Posted by: [identity profile] vspirit.livejournal.com
No...I meant The Things We Do.
Date/Time: 2008-04-24 18:31 (UTC)Posted by: [identity profile] jusrecht.livejournal.com
Oh, that *grins*

Well, if it's any consolation, I've actually been toying with some ideas for that storyline, but for now I think I'll focus on my Schneizel/Suzaku fics first. Unless the few next episodes can convince me to write more about Zino XD
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