R2 Episode 3 Discussion: Kindred

[nayami.livejournal.com]

It's so great to see our community activity with things aside from icons and RP ads again. All this discussion makes me a very happy Geass fan. But I still love my epic posts so here's another one. As always, no character bashing or I will eat your soul. I hear they go quite well with bread pudding.



It was refreshing to finally have an episode that gave us a chance to breathe and wrap out heads around some things without reeling from the OMG SHOCK of a moment before. I admit I was completely against an Ashford episode from the start and still believe that the plot should be dropped sooner rather than later. We were promised a world stage and yet we have yet to escape Japan. Much the same as Lelouch. Suzaku seems to be the only one with true freedom, but even that is debatable. I also think that this episode did a decent job of paralleling last season but to a much less irritating extent than previous ones. I still whine that all Lelouch did was sit on the horse. TEASES.

Since everyone is all over Rollo, I will deal with him later and instead put the perplexing issues of the episode to the forefront. The largest of these being GEASS. In Turn 2, we hear the Emperor tell Suzaku that only he knows about geass. I'm guessing this means he's the only KotR to know about geass. Clearly, other people do, although they may not know the full extent of the power. Villetta and Rollo chat about it. They also apparently bank on Lelouch's reliance on it it, a very poor move on their part, as most of Lelouch's building of his army was done without the use of his power (I will acknowledge winning them over was done through the geassing of Jeremiah and the rescue of Suzaku). Whoever is advising them that Lelouch abuses his power is working off a biased scenario. Is it Villetta's? Is it the Emperor's? Is it Suzaku's? Their observation itself is terribly hindered by the belief that Zero would immediately take action if Lelouch was back to his old ways. Again, the crew is not entirely playing with a full stack of cards. But I doubt the Emperor is this sloppy. And it's rather convenient that nobody knows what happened within Babel Tower if both of the group were apparently striving for the same thing.

I also have nit-pickery with Lelouch this time around. While I understand that the student council all had their memories rearranged to remove knowledge of Nunnally and Zero, meaning that Shirley was probably geassed a second time (a cop-out way to deal with the issue of her remembering things last season), Lelouch fully remembers what happened. I find it interesting that Lelouch is still willing to use Shirley to lure out Rollo and his other followers, knowing what he already put her through. I could even forgive this behavior, as Lelouch has always shown himself to be of the "ends justify the means" mindset if not for his later reaction. Upon Shirley pointing out the cable car, Lelouch suddenly feels guilt. Why was this guilt not present before? Did he conveniently shove it to the back of his mind? I fully believe that he feels responsible for what happened to his friends and wants to avenge them, but the combination of these two elements sat extremely awkwardly with me. It was almost like an afterthought. Even if Lelouch wouldn't know a date if it bit him on the ass, he knows how Shirley feels about him so agreeing to go do something with her would clearly count as playing into those feelings. Lelouch, you are a bastard. Though, I will add he was certainly hot when he was joking with Shirley about the spectacular trick he was going to play on the council. Talk wicked to me, baby.

People have pointed out Villetta's conflicted reaction to Ougi's fate. Interesting now that Villetta has some of the power she sought, noted by the surveillance members all referring to her as "lord." I am not sure how I feel about this since the Ougi/Villetta storyline was not one of my favorites. My interest in this is that Villetta seems somewhat... compromised and none too agitated by her role at Ashford. I would have thought a teacher would be demeaning for a warrior.

While we're exploring Britannia, we should also take a moment to brush over Schneizel and Suzaku. Some people have made some good comments about Suzaku's fight with the EU, particularly his focus on disabling rather than killing the pilots. Even if his words come across harsh, practically demanding their surrender, something feels different about this fight than his previous ones. Also Shinigami. I wonder if Suzaku did not earn the name from his homicidal battles in the Black Rebellion. There was no such quarter given then, and for good reason. Whatever Suzaku is after, there is a sense of weariness about him now. His final question to his opponents is whether they still want to continue fighting. Yes, Suzaku, may be different now, but his issues with outright killing seem to be a new spin on his old preservation. There could even be a degree more sanity involved in this style. Schneizel, who continues to be our red herring, alludes to as much when he talks about Suzaku bringing a sense of responsibility and conscience to the field. Ironic description for someone who would betray his own friend hmmm.

Lelouch has also returned to genuinely focusing on Nunnally, something that was missing quite heavily from previous episodes, and something that irked me. We see that he holds back because he's afraid of her being used as a bargaining chip, we see how resentful he is that the council has forgotten her and we see the rage toward the brother that replaced her. The locked, as some have suggested, was most likely a gift for her, purchased early, and then given to Rollo after Lelouch's memories were wiped. Hence, Lelouch's comment that a locket doesn't truly suit a boy. Ouch, Sunrise, giving them the same birthday. This is also where I point out that I love Lelouch's quiet, deadly rage when he makes this realization. Even if that one later frame was totally stole from the scene where Lelouch is watching Suzaku and Nunnally while deciding to tell Suzaku to be Nunnally's knight. As always, the majority of Lelouch's rage is turned toward his father.

Further following my attempt to sort out Lelouch's current thoughts on Suzaku is Lelouch's casual remark about Suzaku taking Arthur. Of course, it's adorable because it shows that Lelouch loev the kitty, as we all already knew. But that Lelouch automatically jumps to knowing that Arthur is with Suzaku is equally noteworthy. I have seen theories about Suzaku taking Arthur because of the cat's connection with Euphemia, thus Suzaku wanting to keep everything about Euphemia as far from Lelouch as possible. And here, I think Lelouch understands this. For his words are not bitter but a simple observation, an understanding as Lelouch always tries to boil things down to. Oh yeah, Lelouch also mentions Nina, which I assume is because she was another staple of Ashford that is now missing.

I am loving the theories I've seen floating about Rollo. While I was already intrigued by Lost Colors, the boy totally won me over with his shanking the Britannian guy and his later freakout in front of Lelouch. I am guessing Rollo is in a way a trained weapon because of his power. He may have been kept from people for a better part of his life or at least raised in a way that he felt perpetually detached. He doesn't care too much about following any orders but a prime directive, as seen in his killing of the guy who walks in on the secret of the geass. There is also his ability to switch modes, especially his creepy departure from the Chinese Embassy. I do buy into the notion that Rollo grew accustomed to his familial relationship with Lelouch and even started to believe it. He seems absolutely shocked in the scene where Lelouch gives him the locket and later reaffirms to himself that birthdays are important to people, furthering his belief that receiving the locket was a big deal. Add to that his total panic at losing it, at losing this reminder that he has family. Lelouch gave it to him! I love the raw emotion in his eyes in this scene. And his later confusion as Milly talks about Shirley possibly joining the family.

It is also hinted that Rollo doesn't want to give up his fake life, seen in Turn 1 with him trying to keep Lelouch from returning to his old ways and his attempts to convince himself that Lelouch can't possibly be this Zero in Turn 3. I especially love the way he still calls Lelouch "nii-san" because of his panic in the mall when he tries to reach Villetta. As always in geass, only an especially vicious catalyst manages to break the bond, with Rollo reverting back to "Lelouch" when Lelouch pulls a gun on him. His final words also speak to his take on his own power, referring to the geass as a "demon's eye." Perhaps Rollo resents what has happened to him because of his power; it can be suggested he is unstable with it at times. I guess here we can also toss in questions about who granted Rollo geass and how long he's had it. We've seen from Mao that geass can be given at a very young age, which I think is most likely with Rollo. But he also has managed to keep his control of it, possibly through outside influences.

I also want to give a shout-out to the music in this ep. "Masquerade" and also the cheesy but still amusing dramatic piece that plays out in the mall. I enjoyed. And I don't care what anyone says, I loved the cat-fight between C.C. and Kallen. I want more. It's not just fanservice; it's the development of their relationship, which was severely overlooked in S1.

Nope, no easy questions for you guys this time. They be in the analysis itself.

Comments

[thornsmoke.livejournal.com]

Is it concrete that someone has told them that Lelouch will abuse his power? I think it's more likely an assumption on their part than bad advice -- we see that Rollo's not exactly stingy on the Geass when it comes to situations he doesn't like, and we know that Viletta doesn't really go in for long games, either. And at the surface, it seems like a wise move to make; I imagine they thought that if Lelouch had back all his memories and knew - as he should know - that his enemies were onto his advantages, then wouldn't it be a wise idea to play all his cards instead of holding back and giving them a chance to get one over him?

As for Shirley, it seemed (to me, at least?) that her pain caused him more guilt than actually putting her in danger. For her, it's a date, which gives her joy; for him, it's a way to get one over his enemies. A win for all! (Or not, as it happens. -hangs on edge of seat for next week's episode-)

And I suspect Rollo's birthday was made the same as Nunally's to preserve continuity in Lelouch's memories. (Perhaps a limitation on his power - changing too many memories?) If too many memories stood at odds with how the situation actually was, even memoryless!Lelouch would become suspicious.

I love discussion posts. :3 They make me notice things I hadn't been thinking of.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

It could very well be an assumption, but I would hope that the elite team tracking the bait would be well-versed in what to expect so they can cut him off at every turn. They know Lelouch is insanely crafty. I would think the strategy would be the exact opposite. If an enemy knows you're on his tail, he's going to lie low until he can regain the advantage. They're expecting him to be far too showy. I guess it's his reputation as a theatrical criminal.

It wasn't the danger that irked me so much as "using" her emotions. He knows how she feels. He knows what a slippery slope he is on, and he's walking it without second thoughts. Until later. I think it's just the timing and randomness that bothered me more than anything. He thinks things through better than this.

That's a good theory. I also believe the Emperor is that much of a bastard.

[sapphirus.livejournal.com]

Did Lelouch really know Suzaku met Arthur at the same time as he did Euphemia? I just remember the cat wandering over to Ashford Academy and having fun w/ Zero's mask, after which the student body council adopted Arthur into their group. Personally, I think Suzaku took Arthur because he wanted to keep Arthur, not as any sort of punishment toward Lelouch.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Suzaku hinted at finding Arthur elsewhere in the Drama CDs. Since from the last drama CD, we see that the boys talk about Euphemia, I don't think it's a stretch to assume they talked about Suzaku meeting her and such. Suzaku likes the kitty so it's possible he might have told Lelouch how he first found him. Oh I think Suzaku wants to keep Arthur too, but I think the theory that it is in part distancing from Lelouch is equally valid.

[rainbow-cnxn.livejournal.com]

You're right--the way Villetta and company are approaching the situation does seem to suggest a severe underestimation/misunderstanding of Zero's methods. Zero, with few exceptions (episode 25 being the main one) does not act impulsively. He will plan and wait and wait and wait some more until he's sure that the cards are in his favor. He always does his intelligence and never comes to a battle unprepared, though he is oftentimes wrong, and his inability to deal with surprises on the battlefield prove his downfall many times. If he were Zero, his first priority would have been to surreptitiously understand his tactical and strategic theatres, not to bring back the Order in its full glory.

By the way, the thought of Suzaku sitting down with Rollo after the memorywipe and telling him everything he knows about Lelouch is so very twisted to me. Oh, the angst...

To me, the scene with Shirley meant one of two things. One, he is willing to put her in harm's way to further his own goals, but I really don't think he's a big enough bastard for that. Or, he had been so fixated on Rollo, saving the Order's former leadership, and avoiding detection that he loses sight of these human elements every once in a while. During the "date", Lelouch was in full "Zero" mode, and it took that pang of memory to snap him back to Lelouch-the-friend for a moment.

It's also quite endearing that during his thoughts regarding his current situation, he doesn't appear to be angry at Suzaku, despite his betrayal. The anger is, as you said, turned toward his father. I wonder if Lelouch blames Charles for the breaking of his friendship more than he blames Suzaku. I made a comment several weeks ago about how Lelouch ought to be personally mad at Suzaku, but I feel like I'm gonna have to revise that soon, haha.

Also, "Masquerade", fuck yeah! I love the stuff that Hitomi did for Code Geass last season (especially "Stories"), and I hope we hear more from her in R2. And we always need more catty!C.C. Always.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Right. I want to know why they are conducting themselves this way. Didn't the Emperor give them any advice? He sure acts sloppy when it comes to stalking his erstwhile son.

... That is so disturbing. I WANT FIC RIGHT NOW. Though, I will admit that I can't really see Suzaku going that far. I think Suzaku wants to distance himself from Lelouch as much as he possibly can until he has to kill him.

I can accept your option B, with full Zero mode and then the sudden snap. He has been more shaken lately than he is really used to, and it's not like Lelouch is well suited for such things.

Again, I remain at a loss for how Lelouch feels about Suzaku. Too many conflicting points. It is possible that he is just pushing all his hatred onto the Emperor because he can't deal with the betrayal right now. He has more important things to worry about; he can't let himself be hurt or personally injured. All that matters is Nunnally and living up to people's expectations in him. I think that much has changed from S1; Lelouch does want to show his Black Knights that their loyalty/sacrifice is not in vain. I don't think he would abandon them again now that he has seen the depths of their devotion. As he showed, they are not merely his pawns. But amid all these commitments to people, Lelouch has no time for himself. Suzaku hurt him and nobody else. So Suzaku has to be put aside for the moment. Also, coming into play could be the fact that Suzaku is... justified. But I'm not sure that's how Lelouch mind works just yet.

I love me some Geass background music.

[realms-of-life.livejournal.com]

Like you, I sighed with relief when his focus was back on Nunnally. I do like what you say about his rage, but I think that it is not a rage directed specifically at Rollo and that's why the scene is slightly different from his reaction to Euphemia's announcement - Lelouch tends to reserve this kind of personal rage to members of his family. Not even Jeremiah, who he knew in his childhood and was part of Marianne's security, gets any of that. My own pet theory is that Lelouch doesn't see betrayal as Suzaku does (cultural conditioning again? XD) . He forgives Kallen for abandoning him when he was arrested. He seems miserable about Suzaku, but I still haven't seen any real hatred there. It feels like Lelouch expects to be betrayed, but still hopes and acts as if he won't. Sure he sees Rollo as a surrogate from the powers he detest and he resents him for that, he resents his own powerlessness to save Nunnally too, but it seems to me that Rollo was not the only one affected by their fake family. Lelouch lived with this guy for one year, and you know how Lelouch is. It's too soon to tell, but I think he will see him as an ally soon enough.

Nice point about Lelouch being a bastard. I love that. XD I blame him for being a irresponsible teenager, and for being cornered by the whole execution business. He doesn't think Shirley will be in danger and so he uses her. Lelouch's survival instincts will put what he sees as necessities before his own desires. That's how he gets into most of his troubles and how he threatens his own sanity, and his reaction to Shirley's cable comment is - to me - further proof of how much Lelouch tends to repress his own feelings when he thinks he needs to. Shirley's invitation was damn convenient when it came, and I think accepting it was further example of Lelouch thinking on his feet when under pressure. But I don't want to apologize for his sake and I agree that he is a bastard. He is also starting to find out about his hormones and is learning how to use them. A very scary development.

My perception of Arthur being more than cute kitty to Suzaku and his connection to Euphie is also based on the trouble they must have gone through to erase yet another detail from Lelouch's environment. It also suggests Suzaku has more influence on the whole investigation than we have seen until now. I'd like to see if this theory is sound or just another fruit of my fancy fangirly mind.

I must confess I missed Suzaku's disarming the EU, because I'm such a girl and that totally harmed my view on that scene. XD I still see some underlying tension there, although I can't identify it clearly - it has to do with everybody's reaction to Suzaku - from Schneizel's men to the Europeans. I do agree that there is some weariness in it all, but also some awareness. This Suzaku seems to be the most aware version of himself we have seen so far, which could be taken for sanity, but not necessarily so. He seems to know the price of his ideals and it is hard to tell how much he believes and how much he *has* to believe in them at this point. His speech is interesting: would he let Lelouch off the hook if he just surrendered? It's an unlikely outcome for Lelouch, but puzzling over this would probably give us some further clues about Suzaku's real motivations and how sincere he is to himself at this point. Schneizel's comment still intrigues me - it was very IC of him, but intrigues me anyway - and I wonder how much he knows about Lelouch and Suzaku's deal with the Emperor. Anyway, I can't wait for *this* Suzaku to meet with Lelouch again. It will probably be the climax of this season. XD

I LOLed at the horse scene. Poor Nayami.

And yay for C.C. and Kallen's interaction. I like that they have spent a whole year together.

[rainbow-cnxn.livejournal.com]

What you said about Arthur made me think a little bit. The memory manipulation of Arthur was probably Suzaku's doing, but it theoretically could have been Nunnally, if we assume like Lelouch that she's in Britannia. It would be deliciously awful if the Emperor would hold her accountable for Lelouch's well-being. What if he made her divulge information about her brother in order to keep him alive? It certainly would turn the tables, where Nunnally would be acting behind Lelouch's back for what she perceives to be his own best interests.

After all, she's growing up, too. It's high time that she shows some form of agency. I always thought that Lelouch treated Nunnally as someone far younger than she was. Is there really a difference between how Lelouch treats Nunnally as a seven year-old and as a fourteen year-old? I didn't tend to think so.

The main thing keeping me from believing that this could happen is my inner Suzaku fangirl. I don't see him as someone who'd allow Nunnally to be exploited in that way (if he found out). It doesn't help that there's been a lot of FF12 played in my room, and I'm beginning to subconsciously see Suzaku as Gabranth. >_>

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I love your line about Lelouch constantly expecting betrayal while at the same time hoping against hope that it won't happen. It's so beautiful. So are you suggesting his rage is more toward the situation than Rollo himself? I thought there was quite a bit of hatred shown there, but you could be right.

Yes, he does seem to be playing up his charisma lately. I wonder what keyed him onto that.

That makes sense too. It would be a bit much to exist all memory of Arthur just for Suzaku's "I miss my kitty" fancy. But if the Emperor thought that it was another strike at Lelouch, I could see him going for it.

I still think Suzaku was under a passionate spell throughout the cave scene and afterwards, similar to how Lelouch was when he killed Clovis. It was pure emotion driving him but still allowing thoughts to filter through. But at the same time, shutting out unneeded emotions. That's why I think at this point Suzaku is more lucid and wanting to reach his ideals, but like you said fully understanding their price now.

RIDE THE DAMN HORSE, LELOUCH!

[jusrecht.livejournal.com]

Another of your lovely long commentary ^^

I don't think Suzaku shares his knowledge about GEASS with anyone. It's clearly still a painful subject for him, seeing that he still scowls most of the time. Viletta has to know because she's working with Rollo and it's in the mission's parameter.

Lelouch loses some points with me in this episode, as related to Turn 2. Not only that he uses Shirley (although perhaps he deems this kind of manipulation harmless despite the disastrous result in the last), he despises the Emperor for tampering with everybody's memory. Like he did in Turn 2 when his memory was about to be modified. I find this bitterly amusing for someone who has been using GEASS to rape people's mind and use them against their will.

Suzaku taking Arthur boggles me like hell. I can understand if he's thinking about Euphemia, but there seems to be something more. And we need to know about Suzaku. His calmness in dealing with the EU Army needs explanation.

Still not sure about Rollo. I hope he doesn't end up that kid who can't deal with his newfound emotions because he's been trained as a human-weapon his entire life. We already have way too many of them in other series *glares at Gundam 00*

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Heh, Lelouch is ever the hypocrite. It's what pisses me off when people use the same claim to turn on Suzaku. But Lelouch is also very personal. People dying in a battle not a big deal. Shirley's father dying in battle A BIG DEAL. So geassing people he's not going to have to deal with again not as big a sin as hurting those he cares about. It's important to note that he does regret geassing when it's someone he's close to. In episode 19, he laments instinctively geassing Suzaku, saying he's the one person he never wanted to us it on. So yeah hypocrisy and relativity are at play and always will be.

Well, there's that. But this is also Geass so there will be some insane twist thrown into the mix. Rollo is a total Gundam pilot. It's all I thought the entire episode.

[lulu-quality.livejournal.com]

I wish I could comment more on this post. There's so many things I want to say and the discussion is truly intriguing, but alas and alack, I have a term paper. Just quickly, however, the new Geass e-magazine shows quotes from episodes 4, 5, and 6. My translation on #6's is a little iffy though:

TURN４ 「ロロ、お前は正しい」
"Rollo, you are correct." (About what? Lelouch to Rollo possibly? And the short summary on the official website says something about Lelouch trying to make a trade/deal with Rollo)

TURN５ 「お前はホントに、猫が好きなんだなぁ」
"You truly like cats, huh?" (Supposedly due to a few leaked spoilers from storyboards for episode 5, this is directed from Lelouch to Suzaku. From the tense and the use of "omae," it looks like that's correct. I am truly intrigued on how this will play out)

TURN６ 「実は今日、お別れを言いにきましたの」
It translates to something like "To tell the truth today, I came to say goodbye." (I have no idea who's saying this. Lelouch, maybe?)

Next week's episode can't come soon enough.

[realms-of-life.livejournal.com]

Ah, but Lelouch and Free Will is a total different monster to poke at. XD People have discussed it thoroughly. And it has been pointed how actually reluctant he is about using the Geass to actually change people's wills. And that makes sense, considering the value he places on freedom and independance. He never told the Elevens - or the Britannians - to follow him blindly. His commands are usually: "forget what you have seen"/"turn that key"/"don't interfere"/"shut up". He has resisted using the Geass on Suzaku until they got to a life and death situation. Changing Shirley's memories in a more relevant way really pained him. Also, he has told C.C. he would not rely on his Geass, because it was her power, not his own. I have NO DOUBT that what Charles did to him and his friends are driving him nuts with anger, especially because he is so close to that point himself. As usual, he hates Charles for being so alike him, and yet so different.

I agree with your opinion on Rollo. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

[tungwene.livejournal.com]

I have two theories in regards to Villetta's incompetence in anticipating Lelouch's behavior. First, I think it's inexperience with commanding the operation. The nameless Baron from episode one who died is the original commander of the team, I believe. After all he is a baron and real nobility, whereas Villetta is not, so it is most likely he has higher rank. Villetta probably succeeded the post after he died. Maybe she does not have all the information he had and is not in direct communication with the emperor.

Second, Villetta knows their orders are to find and capture C.C. I don't know about Rollo but I don't think Villetta knows Lelouch is a prince. Therefore she thinks she's just a normal high school student. Their mission is to use Lelouch as bait to capture C.C. This must mean C.C. is a more important target than Zero if they are using the former Zero as bait. Therefore this must mean it's C.C. who's been calling the shots the whole time. An ancient immortal witch is probably smarter than a mere high school student, she would fit the profile of the true mastermind of the whole rebellion, the power behind Zero that has been fooling them all along.

I got really angry when Lelouch used Shirley at the mall too. I think Lelouch's rationale behind it is he is using Shirley to get rid of the surveillance team, with the surveillance gone from Ashford all the students will be safer, therefore it's okay to use Shirley because it's for her own good ultimately. He uses this same reason, it's for the greater good, to justify a lot of the unseemly things he does in season one so it fits his thinking. Also, I think Lelouch is very good at pushing aside his guilt and other unpleasant feelings until they smack him in the face and he can no longer ignore them.

The change in Suzaku is before when he would ask his enemies to surrender he would sincerely hope they would surrender. Now I believe asking for a surrender is more like a courtesy. Sparing their lives is a 'right thing to do' in Suzaku logic so he should always offer this option to his enemies. However I think Suzaku no longer hopes or expects anyone will ever actually surrender. It's like he's become resigned to the fact that people won't conform to the way he wishes his world would be like, a world where he can accomplish his goals without killing. Also, I think Suzaku took the damn kitty because the little rascal saved his life in the last episode.

Rollo I think is very attached to Lelouch and cherishes the year he's had living with him though he will still obey the orders he was given. However, he has his own ideas so if there were some loophole that would allow him to follow his orders but still keep living with Lelouch he would try to take it. I believe his orders are to capture C.C. and kill Lelouch if he ever remembers he's Zero. He shares the first objective with the team but the second may be an order only he was given alone. It seems the team doesn't really care about Zero or Lelouch unless it pertains to C.C. So Rollo's agenda is to capture C.C. before Lelouch regains his memories. The only time he seemed really angry in this episode was when he snapped at the team while he was fiddling with his locket why they still hadn't found C.C. He seemed impatient and maybe a little panicked close call that was to losing Lelouch (or rather the Lelouch he knows) at Babel tower. Also in episode one he was busy trying to save Lelouch from both the terrorists and the Britannians. He wasn't there when the baron ordered Lelouch's death so he doesn't know the team has orders to kill Lelouch once their mission is accomplished. I think Rollo might believe that if they can catch C.C. without Lelouch regaining his memories the two of them will be allowed to go on their merry way.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

It is a good theory, the one about her not being used to her new rank. Though I don't think the baron was the original commander. Villetta has been in her post throughout the year. She is in prime position to be at the head of the surveillance. And yes, I don't think she knows Lelouch is a prince.

While he may not expect them to surrender, he still manages to minimize death. I think that fact itself is important. And I don't think Suzaku will ever accept that fact that the world won't conform.

Interesting opinion that Rollo might think that once C.C. is dealt with, he can have *his* Lelouch for keeps.

Geass discussions: Inspiring long-winded responses since 2007.

[yedijoda.livejournal.com]

In Turn 2, we hear the Emperor tell Suzaku that only he knows about geass. IIRC, Charles told Suzaku that he was the only one who knows about Geass AND Lelouch being Zero.

It was really good to see something of the good-ol' Lulu back in this episode, but there was also something very Death Note about how Lulu contrived to get away from his handlers. It's like he's escaping the FBI while he tries to kill someone investigating/spying on him or something. *shrug*

I think the most interesting character in this ep was Suzaku. You bring up some good points about where he got the name "The White Shinigami," but considering how much Suzaku still clings to the hope of not having to kill others, it's possible that the title of White Shinigami and the associated reputation may be more of a ploy to intimidate potential foes and possibly get them to withdraw rather than fight. Suzaku is definitely a changed man in R2--he's a lot more serious, more vicious, less idealistic, and a lot more grim. But he's also (if only on the surface) showing a respect for all human life.

Nunally had a big effect on Lulu and Suzaku. In R1, Nunally was the moderating element for both of them--both guys softened around her and acted more human because of her presence. Now that she's gone, both Lelouch and Suzaku have become rather hardened to their respective tasks and have lost touch with their humanity. Lelouch outright uses people without thought for how they are affected by his actions--at least until he remembers Nunally. And Suzaku seems almost dead inside (but that might be more because of the loss of Euphemia than the loss of Nunally).

This ep has convinced me that there is some relationship between Rollo and Nunally, and I wonder if Rollo's reactions to discussions about birthdays and families and nekomimi girls isn't because he is very aware of whose place he's taking in Ashford society. Perhaps he has some background with her that Lelouch is unaware of? I'm absolutely convinced that Charles is holding Nunally as a future bargaining chip against Lelouch, and since I'm also convinced that Rollo is a KotR, it wouldn't be beyond the realm of imagination to think that Rollo and Nunally may have met and become friends on a very unique level. But that's just my own personal crazy talk.

Speaking of which--holy cow. Did Charles *really* Geass all of Ashford about Nunally and Zero after the Black Knights took over the school at the end of S1? In some ways, it really wouldn't surprise me. But then again, it would for a couple of reasons. There had to be more than one compelling reason for Charles to take the time and effort to Geass the entire school/area/group, so it couldn't have just been to reinforce the rearrangement of Lelouch's memories and to get everyone to forget about Nunally. I'll be really disappointed if it turns out that is was just to set things up for Rollo and to erase memories of Zero.

The second reason I'd be surprised is that Charles strikes me as the kind of guy who likes to play chess from the safety of his own chair, rather than picturing himself as a chess piece in the game. He lets his knights (who move in patterned but unpredictable ways) and his pawns and his rooks do the work for him. He knows full well the risks involved with becoming and acting like the "king" in a chess game, in contrast to Lelouch who categorically becomes the "king" almost every time he makes a move.

Oh, and I am totally WTC about Charles grooming Lelouch as the next emperor. It makes all kinds of sense.

Re: Geass discussions: Inspiring long-winded responses since 2007.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I will try very hard not to hiss at the DN reference. Sorry bias.

Yes, at first I thought Shinigami might be propaganda, but then I remembered Suzaku tearing through those mechs at the end of the series. I'm pretty sure word about that got out.

Oooh good mention of Nunnally's humanizing effect on the boys and how they lost some of it once she was lost. Though, she may not be as lost to Suzaku. I wouldn't say Lelouch outright uses people, but I think as someone said in an above comment, he goes into his modes more easily now. Still, we have to remember that this is barely a day after he's remember exactly what happened to him. I think he deserves a little slack here...

[aoi-rein.livejournal.com]

Well, again I finished all your article. It's been a habit for me to read your analysis. Btw, your language is good (I feel ashamed about myself). I like your hypothesis too. Lelouch is a bastard, lol! But I like this bastard. Now look into all the comments here, I know I missed about betrayal in last post. I quite buy about realms_of_life comment aboout it. At first, I thought it'll be very hurtful if someone betral him again. Since the betrayal of his father from his childhood he became hatred towards the Royal Family. And later betrayed by his only best friend again. I thought it really very hard for himself. Lelouch still feel hurt, of course, but yes, he also betray someone else. I always seem to ignore about it because I don't think that's the real betrayal. His conceal identity from his friends and even Suzaku is more to protection in my eye. Also for whatever he did to his friends and The Black Knight, I still can't acknoledge that's betrayal. Like what you say, Lelouch is genuinely has relationship with all of them. He's full-hearted doing it and maybe his way is not true but he know that what he did won't gone too extreme that'll hurt others.

Guess it's what I wanna say and I dunno what I really mean ady. (> . <)

[nayami.livejournal.com]

It is betrayal in Suzaku's eyes because Suzaku asked Lelouch to join him and Euphemia, asked him as his friend, and Lelouch refused. Now that Suzaku watched Lelouch kill the girl he loves in what seemed to be cold blood, it adds insult to injury. Lelouch betrayed who he was in Suzaku's eyes. He's not worthy of being a brother, a friend or even a person. You also have to remember that Lelouch exemplifies Suzaku's mistake with his father so part of Suzaku's rage might have to do with the realization that Suzaku betrayed himself and he projects this onto Lelouch. Lelouch's altruistic devotion to his loved ones is often missed by people's dislike of his methods. Lelouch betrayed Suzaku in always telling him they were friends but being unwilling to understand the Suzaku in S1 and being unwilling to truly trust him. Yes, it is a betrayal.

[furato.livejournal.com]

Ever since I saw Ougi/Viletta's positioning in the OP, I have no doubt that this pairing would get a subplot in R2. However, seeing as warrior Viletta didn't spare a thought when shooting Ougi at the end of Season 1, and assuming they have little or no interaction for the period of one year following Lelouch's memory-wipe, Viletta's rather bothered expression upon Ougi's impending execution seems coming out of nowhere. One year is a period long enough to get over a former lover in real life, let alone a short relationship with someone she considered disgusting on the basis of race. Unless a retcon would appear showing Viletta actually hesitated when shooting him, hence Ougi not dying from her shot at point blank.

Speaking of the one year gap, I get the feeling that all supporting characters seem to be at a standstill during that period. :/ It's almost like they're all staticly waiting for Lelouch to make his move. The captured OotBK leaders, for instance--why hadn't Britannia executed Toudou and Ougi soon after their arrest to weaken the morale of the remaining rebels?

The combination of Schneizel and Suzaku fits real well, don't you think so? While Cornelia is vicious towards her enemies, Schneizel likes to maintain the air of friendliness while secretly doing his own things, like when he approved of Euphemia's SAZ plan, saying he would tell Cornelia but eventually never did, thus ensuring the plan would go through. I think his goal would be to calm the Area 11 rebellion by giving an illusion of equality, something Euphemia didn't mean to do but is actually doing. With Suzaku's righteous behaviour in battle, this must be good for Schneizel's PR, as he silently shove his other pawns in preparation for his grand plan (whatever that is).

What I'd like to know is whether Suzaku has his own plan going to "change the system from within" behind everyone's backs or is he now trapped in the system and being played by the royal family without realising it.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't say she didn't spare a thought. There was definite emotion on her face when she shot him. I haven't put much thought into it because, like I said, I'm not a big Ougi/Villetta fan. Her expression during the prelude to the execution is probably not so much a lamenting of a former lover but a recollection of all Ougi did for her and how she turned on him.

Yeah, I noticed the standstill too and consider it a bit of contrived writing on the Geass staff. Britannia really should have executed the Black Knights by now.

Schneizel continues to elude us. Yes, he supported the SAZ, knowing that it would cause Euphie problems, but he also displays significant shot when the massacre begins. So the theory that Schneizel is two-faced isn't exactly evidenced yet.

[kurozukin-a.livejournal.com]

Unless a retcon would appear showing Viletta actually hesitated when shooting him, hence Ougi not dying from her shot at point blank.
I dunno, I always assumed that the mere fact that he didn't die from being shot at point blank range shows that she deliberately held back from making a deadly shot. I mean, even an inexperienced shooter should be able to kill someone using a gun at that range. And Viletta is an experienced enough soldier to know how to kill people efficiently -- earlier in that same episode, she managed to kill that bunch of guys who came to lynch her for being a Britannian spy.

[liakotoba.livejournal.com]

Assuming that the way a Geass is obtained is the same for any person (making a contract with a being like C.C.), Rollo is probably not a forced participant. The Geass is also most likely a new power—unless his Geass is weaker than a normal Geass, there is no way it cannot be permanent by now, considering how flippantly he uses it. The more the Geass is used, the stronger it gets, right?

In that case...Considering what has been shown of Rollo, and what happened to Mao, I can see Rollo as being incapable fulfilling the contract. Geass, as C.C. calls it, is "the power of the king" (the king or a king? forgot). And Rollo certainly doesn't appear to be king material. With his Geass ability, the moment it goes out of his control, Rollo will definitely fulfill the 'isolation' part of the contract—but living like that, having to be several meters away from someone in order to communicate with an unfrozen mind, can only mean unpleasant things for Rollo.

Which means probably sometime this season he'll lose control of it.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

No, but Rollo may be regretting his choice. And it's also possible that people discovering Rollo's power may have tried to use him to their own ends. Or even if he just recently got geass, since as you said he uses it rather flippantly, he was already a trained soldier in other aspects. I definitely think Rollo shows signs of being a conditioned killer.

[csakura.livejournal.com]

that was a fun read! def. touched on a lot of things that i thought, too. for me, the one thing that most annoyed me was all the contradictions with characters. lelouch is all angry with the emperor changing everyone's memories, when lelouch himself did that to shirley, and imo would probably do it again to any of his friends if he could and "needed" to. rollo thinks lelouch and his eye are evil, though i doubt he thinks the same of himself.

but, millay and lelouch: how cute was that kitchen scene?

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Yes, but why would a geass-user despise another's geass? I think there is more to it.

I do love me some presidential antics. Lelouch is so domestic.

Lelouch and Rollo - Family bonds

[inulovinkit.livejournal.com]

This was certainly a fun episode for me, with all the insight into characters that was going around.

First, Lelouch. It seemed this episode was more "gathering information" sort of episode, as Lelouch learns where he stands and what he can do. Lots and lots of silent RAGE from him as he learns that everyone forgot about Nunnally and Rollo replaced her.

Though, in the Lelouch vs. Rollo relationship on his side, it's complicated. I mean, he remembers how he felt about Rollo during that one year with the wiped memory, and I think, he feels just a little bit of affection for the kid, even if he knows that Rollo is working for the other side.

I mean, look how cute Rollo is. How could even Lulu stand up to that cuteness without SOME feelings? While Lulu is focused on Nunally and that is a good thing, I noticed how he didn't really want to "dispose of" his fake brother, but still "use" him. Deep down, somewhere in that twisted heart of his, Lelouch cares. A bit. It wasn't really seen in this episode because Lulu was still trying to figure out what Rollo WAS, but the locket scene definitely implied it.

And Rollo. This episode was ALL about Rollo. Cute little badass Rollo. The thing I noticed about him was all about how, in his scenes with the surveillance gang, Rollo seemed more focused on catching CC and eliminating the Zero threat rather than threatening his big brother. I think Rollo may have started out as an average spy, but he got used to Lulu treating him like his dear little brother and got used to it. Now, he doesn't want to lose that relationship -- thus his conflicting ideas about whether or not "Zero" has awakened, and how he doesn't want to believe it until Lulu slams it in his face. He's grasping to try to eliminate Zero in order to keep Lelouch, almost.

And then, there was the way he called him "Lelouch" instead of "Nii-san" after the timehax! scene. That signals to me that he does separate the "evil" side of Lelouch from the sweet older brother that he once knew. Because he loves his brother, and looks up to him as the only family he has, he can't put Lelouch = Zero together, unlike Suzaku who can do that all too easily.

Even after Lelouch shows Rollo that he got his memories back, I think Rollo just didn't want to connect the two--after all, once "Zero" has awakened, "Lelouch" as he knew him would be gone, thus the different name.

This brings to another point: Rollo's family issues. Now, while Rollo can be badass and knife people who walk in on him during conversations, the boy has some SERIOUS issues, shown by the locket thing. What's in the locket? I mean, that probably is important, but the symbolism of the locket is even greater.

I mean, Lelouch gave it to him (even if, I think, it was originally for Nunally) it's HIS. It's something that his only brother in the whole wide world gave to him. So, Rollo treasures it, and panics at the thought of losing it. Considering how hax! Rollo is with mecha and knife fighting skills, I don't think, outside of the year he spent with Lelouch, Rollo had something that could be called a "normal family". Heck, for all we know, he could have been related to Lulu after all, but never met him (showing how he looks a lot like Nunally did) thus reaffirming the family thing.

But even without a blood connection, there really was a bond there, as shown in Turn 1. And Rollo grasped on and treasured that bond. Now, after Zero has woken up, he can't sever that bond by identifying his loving "Nii-san" with the terrorist "Zero". In essence, Rollo is so afraid of losing that family bond he has with Lelouch, that it gets in the way of his spy job.

Even though Rollo is undeniably cute, the fact that he doesn't want to lose his brother as he knows him and wants to keep that family bond will be his downfall. At least, I'm sure, it'll turn him from the "dark side" and over to working with Lelouch eventually.

Because, I'm sure, like Suzaku and Lelouch, when Lelouch and Rollo work together, (and have mind control + timehax! geasses) they can probably do (almost) anything.

Re: Lelouch and Rollo - Family bonds

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I am not sure if Lelouch truly feels for Rollo. I think he switched to purely wanting to use Rollo throughout the episode. His startled reaction to Rollo and the locket could have been him processing information about Rollo. Lelouch is truly infuriated that Rollo has replaced Nunnally, and while his hatred may not be for Rollo himself, Rollo is quite likely to get caught in the crossfire. I think Lelouch will find it very hard to sympathize with Rollo without a good reason. Again, it is important to remember that if Lelouch cares about someone, he is reluctant to use his powers on them; he feels guilt. Lelouch had no issue with targeting Rollo. Whatever Rollo feels for Lelouch from the time he spent with him, I have difficulty saying Lelouch feels the same.

Yes, someone else brought up Rollo's focus on C.C., further adding to his wish to distance Zero and Lelouch. As I've said before, the very obvious switch between the "nii-san" of moments ago and the "Lelouch" after Lelouch pulls a gun on him is most revealing. If it were all just a ploy, Rollo would have no trouble saying "nii-san" all snide like. But Rollo doesn't want to merge the two. I truly believe Rollo thought as long as Lelouch didn't remember, they could continue their life together, and Rollo was getting used to it.