R2 Episode 3 Discussion: Kindred

[nayami.livejournal.com]

It's so great to see our community activity with things aside from icons and RP ads again. All this discussion makes me a very happy Geass fan. But I still love my epic posts so here's another one. As always, no character bashing or I will eat your soul. I hear they go quite well with bread pudding.



It was refreshing to finally have an episode that gave us a chance to breathe and wrap out heads around some things without reeling from the OMG SHOCK of a moment before. I admit I was completely against an Ashford episode from the start and still believe that the plot should be dropped sooner rather than later. We were promised a world stage and yet we have yet to escape Japan. Much the same as Lelouch. Suzaku seems to be the only one with true freedom, but even that is debatable. I also think that this episode did a decent job of paralleling last season but to a much less irritating extent than previous ones. I still whine that all Lelouch did was sit on the horse. TEASES.

Since everyone is all over Rollo, I will deal with him later and instead put the perplexing issues of the episode to the forefront. The largest of these being GEASS. In Turn 2, we hear the Emperor tell Suzaku that only he knows about geass. I'm guessing this means he's the only KotR to know about geass. Clearly, other people do, although they may not know the full extent of the power. Villetta and Rollo chat about it. They also apparently bank on Lelouch's reliance on it it, a very poor move on their part, as most of Lelouch's building of his army was done without the use of his power (I will acknowledge winning them over was done through the geassing of Jeremiah and the rescue of Suzaku). Whoever is advising them that Lelouch abuses his power is working off a biased scenario. Is it Villetta's? Is it the Emperor's? Is it Suzaku's? Their observation itself is terribly hindered by the belief that Zero would immediately take action if Lelouch was back to his old ways. Again, the crew is not entirely playing with a full stack of cards. But I doubt the Emperor is this sloppy. And it's rather convenient that nobody knows what happened within Babel Tower if both of the group were apparently striving for the same thing.

I also have nit-pickery with Lelouch this time around. While I understand that the student council all had their memories rearranged to remove knowledge of Nunnally and Zero, meaning that Shirley was probably geassed a second time (a cop-out way to deal with the issue of her remembering things last season), Lelouch fully remembers what happened. I find it interesting that Lelouch is still willing to use Shirley to lure out Rollo and his other followers, knowing what he already put her through. I could even forgive this behavior, as Lelouch has always shown himself to be of the "ends justify the means" mindset if not for his later reaction. Upon Shirley pointing out the cable car, Lelouch suddenly feels guilt. Why was this guilt not present before? Did he conveniently shove it to the back of his mind? I fully believe that he feels responsible for what happened to his friends and wants to avenge them, but the combination of these two elements sat extremely awkwardly with me. It was almost like an afterthought. Even if Lelouch wouldn't know a date if it bit him on the ass, he knows how Shirley feels about him so agreeing to go do something with her would clearly count as playing into those feelings. Lelouch, you are a bastard. Though, I will add he was certainly hot when he was joking with Shirley about the spectacular trick he was going to play on the council. Talk wicked to me, baby.

People have pointed out Villetta's conflicted reaction to Ougi's fate. Interesting now that Villetta has some of the power she sought, noted by the surveillance members all referring to her as "lord." I am not sure how I feel about this since the Ougi/Villetta storyline was not one of my favorites. My interest in this is that Villetta seems somewhat... compromised and none too agitated by her role at Ashford. I would have thought a teacher would be demeaning for a warrior.

While we're exploring Britannia, we should also take a moment to brush over Schneizel and Suzaku. Some people have made some good comments about Suzaku's fight with the EU, particularly his focus on disabling rather than killing the pilots. Even if his words come across harsh, practically demanding their surrender, something feels different about this fight than his previous ones. Also Shinigami. I wonder if Suzaku did not earn the name from his homicidal battles in the Black Rebellion. There was no such quarter given then, and for good reason. Whatever Suzaku is after, there is a sense of weariness about him now. His final question to his opponents is whether they still want to continue fighting. Yes, Suzaku, may be different now, but his issues with outright killing seem to be a new spin on his old preservation. There could even be a degree more sanity involved in this style. Schneizel, who continues to be our red herring, alludes to as much when he talks about Suzaku bringing a sense of responsibility and conscience to the field. Ironic description for someone who would betray his own friend hmmm.

Lelouch has also returned to genuinely focusing on Nunnally, something that was missing quite heavily from previous episodes, and something that irked me. We see that he holds back because he's afraid of her being used as a bargaining chip, we see how resentful he is that the council has forgotten her and we see the rage toward the brother that replaced her. The locked, as some have suggested, was most likely a gift for her, purchased early, and then given to Rollo after Lelouch's memories were wiped. Hence, Lelouch's comment that a locket doesn't truly suit a boy. Ouch, Sunrise, giving them the same birthday. This is also where I point out that I love Lelouch's quiet, deadly rage when he makes this realization. Even if that one later frame was totally stole from the scene where Lelouch is watching Suzaku and Nunnally while deciding to tell Suzaku to be Nunnally's knight. As always, the majority of Lelouch's rage is turned toward his father.

Further following my attempt to sort out Lelouch's current thoughts on Suzaku is Lelouch's casual remark about Suzaku taking Arthur. Of course, it's adorable because it shows that Lelouch loev the kitty, as we all already knew. But that Lelouch automatically jumps to knowing that Arthur is with Suzaku is equally noteworthy. I have seen theories about Suzaku taking Arthur because of the cat's connection with Euphemia, thus Suzaku wanting to keep everything about Euphemia as far from Lelouch as possible. And here, I think Lelouch understands this. For his words are not bitter but a simple observation, an understanding as Lelouch always tries to boil things down to. Oh yeah, Lelouch also mentions Nina, which I assume is because she was another staple of Ashford that is now missing.

I am loving the theories I've seen floating about Rollo. While I was already intrigued by Lost Colors, the boy totally won me over with his shanking the Britannian guy and his later freakout in front of Lelouch. I am guessing Rollo is in a way a trained weapon because of his power. He may have been kept from people for a better part of his life or at least raised in a way that he felt perpetually detached. He doesn't care too much about following any orders but a prime directive, as seen in his killing of the guy who walks in on the secret of the geass. There is also his ability to switch modes, especially his creepy departure from the Chinese Embassy. I do buy into the notion that Rollo grew accustomed to his familial relationship with Lelouch and even started to believe it. He seems absolutely shocked in the scene where Lelouch gives him the locket and later reaffirms to himself that birthdays are important to people, furthering his belief that receiving the locket was a big deal. Add to that his total panic at losing it, at losing this reminder that he has family. Lelouch gave it to him! I love the raw emotion in his eyes in this scene. And his later confusion as Milly talks about Shirley possibly joining the family.

It is also hinted that Rollo doesn't want to give up his fake life, seen in Turn 1 with him trying to keep Lelouch from returning to his old ways and his attempts to convince himself that Lelouch can't possibly be this Zero in Turn 3. I especially love the way he still calls Lelouch "nii-san" because of his panic in the mall when he tries to reach Villetta. As always in geass, only an especially vicious catalyst manages to break the bond, with Rollo reverting back to "Lelouch" when Lelouch pulls a gun on him. His final words also speak to his take on his own power, referring to the geass as a "demon's eye." Perhaps Rollo resents what has happened to him because of his power; it can be suggested he is unstable with it at times. I guess here we can also toss in questions about who granted Rollo geass and how long he's had it. We've seen from Mao that geass can be given at a very young age, which I think is most likely with Rollo. But he also has managed to keep his control of it, possibly through outside influences.

I also want to give a shout-out to the music in this ep. "Masquerade" and also the cheesy but still amusing dramatic piece that plays out in the mall. I enjoyed. And I don't care what anyone says, I loved the cat-fight between C.C. and Kallen. I want more. It's not just fanservice; it's the development of their relationship, which was severely overlooked in S1.

Nope, no easy questions for you guys this time. They be in the analysis itself.

Comments

[thornsmoke.livejournal.com]

Is it concrete that someone has told them that Lelouch will abuse his power? I think it's more likely an assumption on their part than bad advice -- we see that Rollo's not exactly stingy on the Geass when it comes to situations he doesn't like, and we know that Viletta doesn't really go in for long games, either. And at the surface, it seems like a wise move to make; I imagine they thought that if Lelouch had back all his memories and knew - as he should know - that his enemies were onto his advantages, then wouldn't it be a wise idea to play all his cards instead of holding back and giving them a chance to get one over him?

As for Shirley, it seemed (to me, at least?) that her pain caused him more guilt than actually putting her in danger. For her, it's a date, which gives her joy; for him, it's a way to get one over his enemies. A win for all! (Or not, as it happens. -hangs on edge of seat for next week's episode-)

And I suspect Rollo's birthday was made the same as Nunally's to preserve continuity in Lelouch's memories. (Perhaps a limitation on his power - changing too many memories?) If too many memories stood at odds with how the situation actually was, even memoryless!Lelouch would become suspicious.

I love discussion posts. :3 They make me notice things I hadn't been thinking of.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

It could very well be an assumption, but I would hope that the elite team tracking the bait would be well-versed in what to expect so they can cut him off at every turn. They know Lelouch is insanely crafty. I would think the strategy would be the exact opposite. If an enemy knows you're on his tail, he's going to lie low until he can regain the advantage. They're expecting him to be far too showy. I guess it's his reputation as a theatrical criminal.

It wasn't the danger that irked me so much as "using" her emotions. He knows how she feels. He knows what a slippery slope he is on, and he's walking it without second thoughts. Until later. I think it's just the timing and randomness that bothered me more than anything. He thinks things through better than this.

That's a good theory. I also believe the Emperor is that much of a bastard.

[thornsmoke.livejournal.com]

Their history of how he uses the Geass must be erratic at best. They know he's crafty, and so they keep surveillance on him to wait for the moment when he gets his memories back. But that does have its limits. So far they've been tracking a boy with no memory of being Zero; and that Lelouch - as we've seen - was a very different one from the boy he is now. Although you're right, his elaborate games as Zero probably don't hurt.

I agree, it was unkind, but he didn't have much choice and I think he knew it. They're going to execute some of his most valuable followers, and he only had a small window of opportunity to get out of the school and work to save them. Considering the scant time he had to work with, it was probably the best plan he could make.

Well, of course. Why else would he keep Lelouch alive? (Unless this is all an elaborate rat-maze game to train him in the hopes of eventually passing the throne to him.)

[nayami.livejournal.com]

You make a good point of them not knowing quite what to make of things since amnesiac!Lelouch was quite different.

Oh, I'm fine with him doing it for the mission and all. I know Lelouch uses people. I have no qualms about that. It's that he later guilts himself when I would have thought he would have already gone through that before enacting his plan or during it.

People are saying the Emperor might have geassed Lelouch in ways other than the memory...

[sapphirus.livejournal.com]

Did Lelouch really know Suzaku met Arthur at the same time as he did Euphemia? I just remember the cat wandering over to Ashford Academy and having fun w/ Zero's mask, after which the student body council adopted Arthur into their group. Personally, I think Suzaku took Arthur because he wanted to keep Arthur, not as any sort of punishment toward Lelouch.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Suzaku hinted at finding Arthur elsewhere in the Drama CDs. Since from the last drama CD, we see that the boys talk about Euphemia, I don't think it's a stretch to assume they talked about Suzaku meeting her and such. Suzaku likes the kitty so it's possible he might have told Lelouch how he first found him. Oh I think Suzaku wants to keep Arthur too, but I think the theory that it is in part distancing from Lelouch is equally valid.

[sapphirus.livejournal.com]

Ah...see, I didn't listen to the Drama CDs (or know they existed rather). But regardless of whether Lelouch knew of Arthur's connection to Euphie, I don't particularly believe he was as fond of the cat as the rest of the council. His attachment to the remaining council members is much more tangible than that toward a pet, something much more accessory no offense to pet owners.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

... Well the translations are currently down. But they're still worth a listen. Maybe someone can summarize for you. They provide crucial characterization, especially about the early friendship of Suzaku and Lelouch and about the Britannian family.

I don't think Lelouch is broken up over losing Arthur by far. But Lelouch lives on constants, on things he's always expected. This tied into his unwillingness to sever his friendship with Suzaku, even when he knew he was the hated Lancelot pilot. Arthur became part of the council, another constant. So it strikes him as odd that the kitty is gone and that nobody notices. And I just think it quirky that his thoughts automatically go to "Suzaku took him with him."

[rainbow-cnxn.livejournal.com]

You're right--the way Villetta and company are approaching the situation does seem to suggest a severe underestimation/misunderstanding of Zero's methods. Zero, with few exceptions (episode 25 being the main one) does not act impulsively. He will plan and wait and wait and wait some more until he's sure that the cards are in his favor. He always does his intelligence and never comes to a battle unprepared, though he is oftentimes wrong, and his inability to deal with surprises on the battlefield prove his downfall many times. If he were Zero, his first priority would have been to surreptitiously understand his tactical and strategic theatres, not to bring back the Order in its full glory.

By the way, the thought of Suzaku sitting down with Rollo after the memorywipe and telling him everything he knows about Lelouch is so very twisted to me. Oh, the angst...

To me, the scene with Shirley meant one of two things. One, he is willing to put her in harm's way to further his own goals, but I really don't think he's a big enough bastard for that. Or, he had been so fixated on Rollo, saving the Order's former leadership, and avoiding detection that he loses sight of these human elements every once in a while. During the "date", Lelouch was in full "Zero" mode, and it took that pang of memory to snap him back to Lelouch-the-friend for a moment.

It's also quite endearing that during his thoughts regarding his current situation, he doesn't appear to be angry at Suzaku, despite his betrayal. The anger is, as you said, turned toward his father. I wonder if Lelouch blames Charles for the breaking of his friendship more than he blames Suzaku. I made a comment several weeks ago about how Lelouch ought to be personally mad at Suzaku, but I feel like I'm gonna have to revise that soon, haha.

Also, "Masquerade", fuck yeah! I love the stuff that Hitomi did for Code Geass last season (especially "Stories"), and I hope we hear more from her in R2. And we always need more catty!C.C. Always.

[sapphirus.livejournal.com]

I can do w/o translations since I normally just watch raws, though I am trying to find downloads of the actual things (they're the sound episodes, right?).

Considering his double-life, I'm not too surprised about his taking note of those sort of things. In fact, he probably puts more thought into remembering them because, if he doesn't pay attention, those small details could blow up in his face.

[realms-of-life.livejournal.com]

Like you, I sighed with relief when his focus was back on Nunnally. I do like what you say about his rage, but I think that it is not a rage directed specifically at Rollo and that's why the scene is slightly different from his reaction to Euphemia's announcement - Lelouch tends to reserve this kind of personal rage to members of his family. Not even Jeremiah, who he knew in his childhood and was part of Marianne's security, gets any of that. My own pet theory is that Lelouch doesn't see betrayal as Suzaku does (cultural conditioning again? XD) . He forgives Kallen for abandoning him when he was arrested. He seems miserable about Suzaku, but I still haven't seen any real hatred there. It feels like Lelouch expects to be betrayed, but still hopes and acts as if he won't. Sure he sees Rollo as a surrogate from the powers he detest and he resents him for that, he resents his own powerlessness to save Nunnally too, but it seems to me that Rollo was not the only one affected by their fake family. Lelouch lived with this guy for one year, and you know how Lelouch is. It's too soon to tell, but I think he will see him as an ally soon enough.

Nice point about Lelouch being a bastard. I love that. XD I blame him for being a irresponsible teenager, and for being cornered by the whole execution business. He doesn't think Shirley will be in danger and so he uses her. Lelouch's survival instincts will put what he sees as necessities before his own desires. That's how he gets into most of his troubles and how he threatens his own sanity, and his reaction to Shirley's cable comment is - to me - further proof of how much Lelouch tends to repress his own feelings when he thinks he needs to. Shirley's invitation was damn convenient when it came, and I think accepting it was further example of Lelouch thinking on his feet when under pressure. But I don't want to apologize for his sake and I agree that he is a bastard. He is also starting to find out about his hormones and is learning how to use them. A very scary development.

My perception of Arthur being more than cute kitty to Suzaku and his connection to Euphie is also based on the trouble they must have gone through to erase yet another detail from Lelouch's environment. It also suggests Suzaku has more influence on the whole investigation than we have seen until now. I'd like to see if this theory is sound or just another fruit of my fancy fangirly mind.

I must confess I missed Suzaku's disarming the EU, because I'm such a girl and that totally harmed my view on that scene. XD I still see some underlying tension there, although I can't identify it clearly - it has to do with everybody's reaction to Suzaku - from Schneizel's men to the Europeans. I do agree that there is some weariness in it all, but also some awareness. This Suzaku seems to be the most aware version of himself we have seen so far, which could be taken for sanity, but not necessarily so. He seems to know the price of his ideals and it is hard to tell how much he believes and how much he *has* to believe in them at this point. His speech is interesting: would he let Lelouch off the hook if he just surrendered? It's an unlikely outcome for Lelouch, but puzzling over this would probably give us some further clues about Suzaku's real motivations and how sincere he is to himself at this point. Schneizel's comment still intrigues me - it was very IC of him, but intrigues me anyway - and I wonder how much he knows about Lelouch and Suzaku's deal with the Emperor. Anyway, I can't wait for *this* Suzaku to meet with Lelouch again. It will probably be the climax of this season. XD

I LOLed at the horse scene. Poor Nayami.

And yay for C.C. and Kallen's interaction. I like that they have spent a whole year together.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Right, the sound episodes is their name in this canon.

In many cases, yes.

[realms-of-life.livejournal.com]

But see, Rollo shows over and over again that he is very aware of Lelouch's psychological traits. And that's interesting, because Rollo is - again - not surprised when he finds out Lelouch has his memories back. I think Rollo knows him well enough to realize how he is going to react. Maybe Rollo doesn't share his impressions with the rest of the team, tho. Maybe that's further proof that Rollo is random, and that his alliances are pretty much uncertain. He is looking at that damn locket through the whole meeting when they are discussing whether Lelouch is back to Zero mode or not. Maybe he was withholding information? And how much information? And since when?

I'd go for your original theory that the rest of the team is somehow biased when it comes to Lelouch. Even a brainwashed Lelouch still behaved like himself. I wonder whose prejudice it was, and what kind of prejudice it was. And yes, Charles seems to be completely detached from their schemes as much as we can tell. I find it fascinating.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Right. I want to know why they are conducting themselves this way. Didn't the Emperor give them any advice? He sure acts sloppy when it comes to stalking his erstwhile son.

... That is so disturbing. I WANT FIC RIGHT NOW. Though, I will admit that I can't really see Suzaku going that far. I think Suzaku wants to distance himself from Lelouch as much as he possibly can until he has to kill him.

I can accept your option B, with full Zero mode and then the sudden snap. He has been more shaken lately than he is really used to, and it's not like Lelouch is well suited for such things.

Again, I remain at a loss for how Lelouch feels about Suzaku. Too many conflicting points. It is possible that he is just pushing all his hatred onto the Emperor because he can't deal with the betrayal right now. He has more important things to worry about; he can't let himself be hurt or personally injured. All that matters is Nunnally and living up to people's expectations in him. I think that much has changed from S1; Lelouch does want to show his Black Knights that their loyalty/sacrifice is not in vain. I don't think he would abandon them again now that he has seen the depths of their devotion. As he showed, they are not merely his pawns. But amid all these commitments to people, Lelouch has no time for himself. Suzaku hurt him and nobody else. So Suzaku has to be put aside for the moment. Also, coming into play could be the fact that Suzaku is... justified. But I'm not sure that's how Lelouch mind works just yet.

I love me some Geass background music.

[rainbow-cnxn.livejournal.com]

What you said about Arthur made me think a little bit. The memory manipulation of Arthur was probably Suzaku's doing, but it theoretically could have been Nunnally, if we assume like Lelouch that she's in Britannia. It would be deliciously awful if the Emperor would hold her accountable for Lelouch's well-being. What if he made her divulge information about her brother in order to keep him alive? It certainly would turn the tables, where Nunnally would be acting behind Lelouch's back for what she perceives to be his own best interests.

After all, she's growing up, too. It's high time that she shows some form of agency. I always thought that Lelouch treated Nunnally as someone far younger than she was. Is there really a difference between how Lelouch treats Nunnally as a seven year-old and as a fourteen year-old? I didn't tend to think so.

The main thing keeping me from believing that this could happen is my inner Suzaku fangirl. I don't see him as someone who'd allow Nunnally to be exploited in that way (if he found out). It doesn't help that there's been a lot of FF12 played in my room, and I'm beginning to subconsciously see Suzaku as Gabranth. >_>

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I love your line about Lelouch constantly expecting betrayal while at the same time hoping against hope that it won't happen. It's so beautiful. So are you suggesting his rage is more toward the situation than Rollo himself? I thought there was quite a bit of hatred shown there, but you could be right.

Yes, he does seem to be playing up his charisma lately. I wonder what keyed him onto that.

That makes sense too. It would be a bit much to exist all memory of Arthur just for Suzaku's "I miss my kitty" fancy. But if the Emperor thought that it was another strike at Lelouch, I could see him going for it.

I still think Suzaku was under a passionate spell throughout the cave scene and afterwards, similar to how Lelouch was when he killed Clovis. It was pure emotion driving him but still allowing thoughts to filter through. But at the same time, shutting out unneeded emotions. That's why I think at this point Suzaku is more lucid and wanting to reach his ideals, but like you said fully understanding their price now.

RIDE THE DAMN HORSE, LELOUCH!

[nayami.livejournal.com]

A good point you make about Rollo and understanding far more than the others but not quite letting on. This might also tie into his weird reluctance to actually accept this Zero as the Lelouch he knows. Rollo is definitely the wildcard this season.

[realms-of-life.livejournal.com]

It's also important to remember that Euphemia named the cat, and Nunnally confirmed the name. Suzaku told Lelouch that the cat had been named Arthur. Lelouch also knew both Euphemia and Nunnally used to say they could communicate with cats - as Nayami pointed out, given their later talks and Suzaku's side comments, I think the idea that Lelouch knew about the connection is not unlikely. But the thing is, even if Lelouch didn't know about the connection between Arthur and Euphemia, Suzaku knew it, and I think it would be iC for him to remove Arthur from Lelouch's presence. But that, of course, is pure speculation and maybe Suzaku was just fond of the cat. Like Nayami, I find it fascinating that Lelouch immediately realizes Suzaku took the cat.

I don't think I'd have enjoyed Code Geass as much if I hadn't read the sound episodes. XD They are very important to understand the multiple connections between the characters and their motivations, especially when it comes to Lelouch and Suzaku's background stories. They are amazingly well-written too.

[sapphirus.livejournal.com]

They've chosen a young agent to play as Lelouch's brother, so it leaves Rolo enough flexibility to change even through that sort of mission. He's been with Lelouch for at least a year and Lelouch, being who he is, probably showered Rolo with as much brotherly affection as he humanly could the way he did with Nunnally. Even that's bound to warm a trained soldier's heart.

[realms-of-life.livejournal.com]

Looove the idea of Suzaku and Rollo sitting together to talk about Lelouch. It's so deliciously twisted it hurts my brain. YES, I WANT FANFICS TOO.

Although Suzaku wanted to distance himself (his focus on the EU mission might be an indication of this) I think I can see him helping people to defeat C.C. and Lelouch. And few people know Lelouch as well as Suzaku does.

[rainbow-cnxn.livejournal.com]

I have no idea what to think of Suzaku right now. I'm of the mindset that Suzaku during the cave scene, after the cave scene, in the one year interim, and as he is right now are all different. And I'm sure that there's a common thread in there that intertwines his (numerous) character transformations, but he's just had too little screentime for me to really say anything. So, I guess, in my mind, anything could have happened. For example, if the Emperor ordered him to do so, he could have done so grudgingly. Suzaku might even see it as a test to himself--a test to see if he has the resolve to do whatever is needed to accomplish his own goals. Who knows?

I have no serious CG icons. Hmmm. My Suzaku icon seems awfully out of place here.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

It's an interesting spin when you put it that way, but yes we need more of Suzaku's *now* character to properly judge any of this. WHY AREN'T YOU HERE YET EPISODE 5?

Consider it intermittent crack that Geass likes to randomly through into series plots. XD;;

[realms-of-life.livejournal.com]

You know, I agree with you that the chances of using Nunnally against Lelouch are very high. I always thought she would be the ideal hostage, and I'm kind of surprised about how much Lelouch is playing his Zero role, considering he believes the Emperor has his sister. I don't know where the authors are heading with Nunnally, and what is her relationship to Rollo, but like you, I hope Nunnally will show more character traits than she has so far because she has a very important role in Geass.

I do believe that, in fact, Lelouch has grown even more protective of Nunnally as she grew older because Nunnally plays their co-dependency card so well. I do believe that Lelouch also became even more selfless about his own personal needs as he grew up. And yes, he does treat her as a child and he behaves like a single parent rather than a brother around her. I think it is important to remember that Lelouch projects a lot of himself on Nunnally - he protects himself through her, builds the world of his dreams through her, hates Charles through her and even started liking Suzaku through her. Nunnally has become - a long time ago - Lelouch's point of reference for most things, and it will be interesting to find out how he fares without her.

I'm not sure how much Suzaku has changed, but he was able to send Lelouch to Charles, knowing very well how that would affect Nunnally. I do think he would be able to let her be used for everybody's well being and ultimately what he perceives as her own possible happiness. Then again, Suzaku might be fooling us all and plotting to murder Charles when he turns his massive back on him. The boy is being remarkably mysterious this season. XD

[realms-of-life.livejournal.com]

Ah, joy. XD I'm still in love with this whole "what are Suzaku's motivations" discussions. I believe Sunrise will keep torturing us for a while.

I agree with rainbow_cnxn. The Suzaku in the cave, the Suzaku in the throne room, the Suzaku as the Knight of the Round are slightly different people. All I can think right now is that he is learning, that he he has continously failed at creating illusions for himself and that has finally caught up with him... and that he has allowed himself to become ambitious in a way he has not been since he was a child. I don't think his wish for a better world is as naive as it used to be. Again, I can't wait for his meeting with Lelouch down the road.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Why the split between the cave and the throne room? I admit I have toyed with similar notions.