R2 Episode 5 Discussion: Knight takes Queen

[nayami.livejournal.com]

First, I am only posting this because I see the other discussion post carries a specific topic. I know that more than a few of us have been anticipating this episode since spoilers leaked, and it definitely didn't disappoint. But I really wanted to get into some issues with the boyas, as always. Also I have to take this moment to say that you really shouldn't expect to be too surprised if you're reading spoilers. I read them too, and I wish I didn't. Le sob. Blah blah be nice to characters/opinions and no mentioning spoilers. It's party time Ashford style!



I thought the episode did an amusing job of balancing Lelouch's bitchiness (knocking C.C. into the tomato bin and closing it, snarling at her for running out in the open, plotting to catch Suzaku, delivering the verbal smack-down to Villetta and continuing his mind games with Rollo) with his utter fail. I will never get tired of watching everyone outrun Lelouch. Actually, let's take a moment to examine some of that bitchiness in more detail. I was a bit irked that Lelouch went for Villetta so suddenly since it seems a bit sloppy for him. He has a good piece of information yes, but he's better off continuing to play his game, especially now that he has Rollo on his side. That said, his delivering of "Happy Birthday" was delicious. He's gambling too much on Villetta's fear that the Ougi thing will destroy her; he should know better than to underestimate Villetta.

There is also his hypocrisy about secrets. I love the disparity between his casually telling Kallen that it's all right for him to have a few secrets after she questions his not telling them about the pilot of the Vincent. It's not even that Lelouch never keeps a few secrets and not even that those secrets got the Black Knights captured in the first place. It's that in the same episode Lelouch acts utterly disappointed that Ougi would dare keep the Villetta thing a secret from him. I always knew Lelouch was a hypocrite, but now I can claim it without shame. Still, I forgive his bitchiness because he's Lulu and he's been mind-raped, lost his sister and thoroughly messed things up based on one case of very bad timing. I think he's entitled to a little bit of snappish behavior. He's also an arrogant ass at times. As long as he's not too sloppy, I'm happy.

I do whine a bit about Lelouch not being made to stand up for his actions at the Black Rebellion. Way to let your leader off the hook, lemmings. I swear Zero has maybe five competent people on his team and the rest are canon fodder. Maybe not to him but to everyone with a brain.

Slick move putting in the shot of the wall and the hatch marks that just trail off. Limit to geass or did something happen to our little Carve-tan? I know everyone is reading to go "OMG Suzaku is screwed," but keep in mind the creators say his geass is still going to nail him. I also am wary about this "limited" geass notion, as it goes against everything the creators have said. But we will see.

I do enjoy Rollo wavering between wanting to shiv Lelouch and wanting to kill Suzaku. The scene where Rollo tells him to hold the knife carefully while Suzaku does his stalking thing is so adorable. Speaking of the stalker, the way he holds authority is all new levels of hot. And as I crazy-theorized earlier, he is acting very Lelouchesque, right down to his wording at times.

I cannot believe the creators were evil enough to barrage us with more adorable chibi flashbacks before getting into the game of lies and espionage that was this episode. Some have pointed out it's quite telling that Lelouch and Suzaku never complete their statement about what they are to each other now. I do wonder if Lelouch truly thought he could fool Suzaku since he was so confident that he had Suzaku just because Suzaku came to see Lelouch. I am it was obvious why Suzaku given the seat next to him. He had to know Suzaku was checking on his memories; he saw him stalking him. Why didn't he act first? Was he just that damn cocky? I am not sure if this was more foolish trust in the friendship or what, but it seems a dangerous dangerous game for him to play. And he lost. Guess the worst enemy is most often the self, huh Lelouch? I also love that Suzaku is smarter than Villetta when it comes to Lelouch, not at all fooled by Lelouch's ruse.

Suzaku's ability to shift between his personas blows my mind. It's better than ever. The difference between Rivalz hanging off him and Gino doing the same is worlds apart. I think Suzaku's reaction around people is another result of not wanting to lose anyone, not wanting them to get close to him. But he's willing to fake at school because that is what everyone expects. And Suzaku has always been good at faking. But I do believe some of it is sincere such as his trying to reassure Milly that Lloyd is just a bizarre person. And of course, his love for Arthur, who still shows his appreciation in violent ways of cute. I will insert squeeing about KotR here, but really we need some more scenes with Anya before we can actually say anything about her. Gino really is Tamaki with a mecha. WHAT A TERRIFYING THOUGHT. Him and his love of commoners.

Ok so Nunnally. First, I am tired of seeing "Suzaku used Nunnally." Truly tired of it. And here is why. I don't think Suzaku is using Nunnally, but he is using her importance to Lelouch. I think Suzaku's goal to become Knight of One and take Japan, especially if he has someone who is sympathetic toward the Japanese on his side (similar to Euphie), has merit in his mind. I also do not believe Suzaku would hurt Nunnally. As he says, he already lost enough people. I also debate on the "important friends" line because both blogs used "friend" and Suzaku only has two people he "lost". I think the line refers to Lelouch and Euphie only. Which gets into issues of double mentality, similar to Kallen. I might elaborate on this later. But it plays back to what happened in the throne room. Note, I find Turn 1 entirely inconsistent with anything else we've seen thus far so aside from the big picture, I remove most of it from this analysis. In either case, I don't think Suzaku is out to hurt Nunnally. I think he truly wants to work with her to fix things. There's also the fact that only the Emperor can appoint Governor Generals. Suzaku might have made the suggestion, but he only has so much influence. The Emperor would have known as well. But yes, Suzaku is using the relationship to place Lelouch/Zero in check. As makes sense since he needs to stop Zero by any means possible. He doesn't believe the Japanese need Zero; they can be saved without his methods.

Also in response to people's whining about Suzaku's goals being foolish and ill-thought and liable to only be a band-aid... umm we're supporting someone who thinks he can overthrow an entire empire... and then what? Suddenly free people? What about the EU and China? What about the Britannia momeland mainland? Both players have extreme goals, and who's to say one has more likelihood than the other. Perspective as always.

About the "lost friend" line, I do believe Suzaku thinks Lelouch is beyond redemption, that Zero has destroyed him, and that it is Suzaku's fault as well for not stopping him when he could have. (There is debate on this issue, regarding Suzaku possibly using Nunnally and his words about Japan not needing Zero as a warning to Lelouch to BACK THE HELL OFF before he has to take action.) I also believe that Suzaku was prepared to let Lelouch live without his memories. Since "Zero" was effectively dead. I also note that after telling Kallen that "This is Lelouch," his words to Lelouch are "Zero, I will stop you." He only refers to him as Lelouch again when he is answering his question. Note: "I told you, Lelouch. I would change Britannia from the inside." His expression. It's almost like he's not even talking to him, he is repeating something he always told his friend. I think Suzaku has distanced the Lelouch he knew from Zero to a point. This is no longer the friend he cherished. He cannot get him back. So yes, he has lost him.

And what of his talk about having enough military power? With Nunnally in place, Zero is well and truly stuck (ehem people talking about Lelouch possibly killing Nunnally scare me because NO). Why does Suzaku need full strength? By the way, I totally laughed at him chewing out Gino for not bringing Lancelot. YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAY. What is Suzaku's role in the plot to catch C.C.? What was his role in the plot to do so by killing the bait: amnesiac Lelouch? Of course, this depends heavily on whether my suggestion that Suzaku would have let amnesiac!Lelouch live is true. I also throw the possibility of the end of Turn 1 being a flash-forward into this mix since it would be the only way of retaining consistency, with Suzaku's declaration of being the one to kill Zero. One thing's for sure, Suzaku is surely the trump card that was sent after Lelouch. What does the Emperor have in mind?

I will now take this moment to laugh at the hilarious fanservice and then urge Kallen to call Lelouch on his bullshit more often. Seriously. Fight the good fight, Kallen!

Comments

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I just want fandom to remember Geass can be thought about once in a while. You can laugh at the crack but still poke at the plot.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I think it's interesting you bring up the "weaning" concept since lulu_quality pointed out that in the OP Lelouch's anguished expression as he reaches for Nunnally gradually changes to one of fierce determination. I doubt Lelouch will ever give Nunnally up, but maybe he will learn to manage his falling apart when she's not safe as far as he is concerned. I also note that during the preview for Turn 6, Lelouch sounds more jealous than worried about Nunnally. Lelouch has always been so very jealous when it comes to those he loves. Take Suzaku and Euphie. From either angle even.

The creators have promised things will go badly for Suzaku when it comes to the Geass. This is why I am hesitant to buy into theories of Geass limits. Unless Suzaku's geass does its terrible job and then fades.

I think everyone knows Gino is doomed. After losing Euphie, anything is possible.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Thank you. I am always happy to see more willing to give Suzaku a chance.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I found it most ironic that since Turn 2, people have complained and complained that Suzaku is doing nothing for Japan. Now he says he's working toward DOING SOMETHING, and all the haters can say is that it won't work and that he's naive and every other random reason they can come up with to bitch. I would understand Suzaku hate much better if its proponents could pose a worthwhile argument that didn't deride Suzaku for doing the EXACT SAME THING LELOUCH DOES.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't say that just yet. My analysis is a lot of theory and interpretation, but I hope it urges people to study the facts and make their own without just attacking one side or the other. Geass is meant to be poked at.

I wouldn't say Lelouch "disregards" life. In fact, he has to truly understand a person to know how to get the best of them. He has to acknowledge their life in its entirety to do so. But Lelouch has always held true to the rule that if you're going to kill, you better be prepared to be killed. Not to say that Lelouch's methods aren't vicious because they are. But they are used against those who already have blood on their hands or will.

[misteline.livejournal.com]

No, I thought it was really good, but I guess it's probably because I agree with essentially everything you said. XD; You're right. In essence, both Suzaku and Lelouch are going about this whole thing "wrong", but the viewer is made to chose the lesser of two evils, I suppose. Don't just assume that because Lelouch is the main character he is always "right." Just because Suzaku doesn't constantly think solely of himself, doesn't mean that he's going about this in the "right" manner either.

I like Lelouch, but after what he did to Euphie, regardless of the fact that it was an accident, I don't care, it was messed up I seriously don't think he deserves to win this... Well, at least not easily and that makes for a win series, my friend. BUT I DIGRESS.

I've always felt that despite the fact that Lelouch only attacks or uses people who deserve it, I think it's important to remember that this is based on his reasoning alone. It all depends on perspective. If we went about killing all the people we didn't quite agree without any mode of forgiveness, then our world would be pretty screwed up. However, Lelouch does typically kill and use people that are truly corrupt. But what about the Japanese Federation? Were they truly corrupt? Ah, well. It's all about opinion and you're right. Geass is meant to be thought about. However, I find poking fun at it a much more enjoyable. Oh, how seriously fandom takes you, Code Geass.

[inulovinkit.livejournal.com]

D: Oh God, A jealous Rolo might try to shiv a bitch...and then be trapped in by the sunshine and bubbles that Nunnally brings.

Not if I friend you first! :D

[arhel.livejournal.com]

Digging up that post, yes, I think you've got a point there. She might change from "object on a pedestal" to "knowing motivation", maybe? He said way back when something along the lines of "the only person who has the right to shoot is one who is prepared to be shot". What I have always liked about Lelouch is that he realizes he has to do some pretty nasty things and understands, accepts, and doesn't try to make excuses for it. But when it's Nunnally, it's all "grrr argh HOW DARE YOU!", which, frankly, is pot calling kettle and a definite character flaw.

Nunnally up till now has been mostly a passive character. How will she react, if she knows/learns of what Lelouch has been doing "for her happiness"? I almost suspect that either she knew all along, or will know fairly soon. And if Lelouch can't be honest with her, he's going to lose her just like he lost Suzaku and Euphie because he couldn't bring himself to be honest with them (well, he opened up to Euphie eventually, but...). His possessiveness seems to be a part of that insecurity.

Suzaku doesn't have a Geass of his own par se, but wasn't there something mentioned in one of the manga about how his physical prowess is somehow related to quasi-Geass powers or something? Could they have been referring to that?

Bad vibes or not, I still hope for the best for Gino. He's only been really around for one episode and I'm trying very hard to not love him anyway. That icon isn't helping :P

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I was addressing your point about the haters. And yes, the concept of flawed characters trying to fix everything else is somewhat amazing.

[inulovinkit.livejournal.com]

Sunshine and Bubbles Nunnally is everyone's weak point.

I bet even Charles, when he's not keeping up appearences is going "awww, she's so cute! ~~<3"

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Hee! I love the way you put that. It always is a whole new ballgame whenever Nunnally is involved, and basic rules that he set for himself and others simply fall apart.

I have heard iffy things about Nunnally knowing what's going on. But I do hope she's somewhat aware because I don't want to believe that Nunnally is that stupid. I am totally waiting for her to renounce Zero when he comes to get her. That will be simply perfect.

Oh no, the creators specifically referred to the "live" Geass and said it will make him do something he regrets.

I love my dancing icon. So much cute.

[darth-teca.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I honestly think Kallen was what started his whole change in mindset twoards his people. Her holding him accountable for his actions, ready to shoot him if he said the wrong thing, was a realization that these WEREN'T chess pieces who he could mindlessly move around without consiquences. We'll probably see much more of Lelouch taking the people around him into consideration. From a much more logicaly point of view, he is desperately going to need all of the bonds he can get considering he left the lot of them high and dry. But while Lelouch is rarely anything but logical, I can't help but suspect (and secretly hope) that his realizations about both Ougi and Kallen were emotional rather than shows to gain their faith again (And I'm not sure if I want to know that I'm wrong because I can only forgive Lelouch for being a douche to people willing to die for him so many times).

It's a fantastic theory. XD Again, I think it's more of a, "Look, you're trapped, I know you're trapped, you know you're trapped, don't really make me kill you this time."

I rewatched the episode (again) and I think it's fascinating the difference between Toudo and Ougi. Toudo is a military man and his reason of accepting what Zero did is the backbone of the military: you do what orders are given. Period. I think if nothing else, Lelouch banked on Toudo being who he always has been, a soldier to the last. Ougi is a completely different matter but I have a suspicious feeling that the man is just rather forgiving at heart. I mean seriously, Kallen, who was almost the most fanattical supporter of Zero, pointed a gun at him adn demanded answers, but Ougi simply forgave. Yes, he rationalized it, but I think he forgave Zero before he said that. Just like I am sure that in his heart, he has forgiven Villetta, which I want to see how she deals with that. Seriously, Lelouch just needs to lock the two of them in a room to solve this. Either they both come otu and they are still wildly in love with each other and Villetta turns good... Or Villetta ends up killing Ougi and then Rollo kills her and claims she touched his locket. BRILLIANT!!!

too long, as usual

[rainbow-cnxn.livejournal.com]

As per usual, I agree with 95% of what you said, but you were able to convey that far more coherently than I could ever hope to and without the rambling musing and thought reversals that typify my Geass posts.

One thing, though. (And I have a suspicion that my objection is purely one of semantics, in which case I'M SORRY FOR MAKING YOU READ ALL THIS. D=)

I don't think Suzaku is using Nunnally, but he is using her importance to Lelouch.

That seems to me a rather pedantic distinction. What else would anyone use her for? Her political prowess? Or her administrative skills? Her one valuable, exploitable trait (as far as greater Britannia is concerned) is her connection to Lelouch. So I think that if you were to ask, "Is Suzaku using Nunnally?", the answer is "yes". However, the more interesting questions to ask are, "Does he have her consent to do this?" and "Who put her into the position of being used?" This doesn't just mean that this person is blackmailing Nunnally or anything of the sort. The person in question could have simply given her the relevant information about the current situation, and I have no doubt that Nunnally would have taken it upon herself to carry out these actions to save her onii-sama.

So who could it have been that clued Nunnally in to everything? The knee-jerk response would be "Suzaku", though my inner appraisal of Suzaku finds that unlikely to be true. I agree that he would never put her at any real risk, and the thought of Suzaku consciously and actively backing Nunnally into a moral conundrum is one that I don't believe in.

Another popular option is that Nunnally figured out everything by herself. I guess that this is possible, but I'm loathe to give Nunnally too much credit. Another equally viable option is that V.V. and/or Charles told her. I personally prefer this theory, as I do believe that Suzaku will turn against Charles later on, and this would give him one justification to do so. But this is just a pet theory of mine that has zero canon evidence to support it.

In any case, Nunnally is set into a position for her to be used by Britannia, and I'm sure that she's at least smart enough to realize that. Specifically, I think that she's at least somewhat in cahoots with Suzaku and allows herself to be used by him in this way, as well. I mentioned in a previous discussion about how I imagine Suzaku to be a knight-figure for Nunnally, and this exploitation does not necessarily shatter that conceptualization. We don't know what the current state of Nunnally and Suzaku's relationship is, but it's hard to imagine that she doesn't trust him. And if she trusts him, she may trust him enough for him to use her as such to bring about the best possible end for everyone. Her presence would not only give him a tool but also a leash. He can't act upon only his own ambitions and emotions; he must also take hers into account.

I still can't help but shake my small feeling of disappointment in Suzaku, though. Perhaps I wanted him to do more to keep her out of harm's way. And even if he couldn't prevent that from happening, maybe I expected him to not derive utility from it. Even if Nunnally were used by Britannia like this as live bait, my idealized, romanticized Suzaku would not use her in his plans. But the new Suzaku is far more cunning and far less noble, so my expectations were unrealistic, to say the least.

[saverellawish.livejournal.com]

I should probably mention before I start this, I have untold amounts of faith in Lulu, so a lot of this will probably be me justifying Lulu's actions in my own crazy way. I apologize in advance :D;;

I totally agree, seeing Lulu struggle in physical activities will never get old. I absolutely loved his expression when Milly passed him. On another note, I don't really agree it was sloppy of him, going to Villetta immediately. Maybe a little quick to assume she'll yield without much of a fight, but that is what worried Villetta once she got over the indignation as associating with Ougi in that way. She was worried of losing her hard earned status, not to mention what people would say about her associating with a "lowly Eleven." Lelouch is good at reading people so I'm sure he picked up on that. If not, he knows something the rest of us don't and it just hasn't been revealed yet. In any case, I don't think Villetta will go down without a fight, maybe we'll get lucky and a reunion with Ougi that much sooner. And yes, his "Happy Birthday" line was delicious *_*

Lulu is a hypocrite on a lot of things, and keeping secrets is one them. But as far as Ougi keeping secrets from him, I think it was more of a case he was surprised more than anything. I think he sees Ougi as being one of his main supporters, and the lest likely to hide anything from him. What Lelouch doesn't know is that Ougi didn't know who Villetta was, and that he was just being the kind soul he is and caring for a woman who has lost her memory. I'm sure if Lelouch knew this he wouldn't have made that face, since hes determined to keep up airs around everybody except C.C. at this point. But I guess if thats not the case he is entitled to some bitchiness considering what his father and Suzaku did (though I don't understand what you meant by bad timing). I believe with Nunnally gone all bets are off at this point, and Lulu's whipping out every major plan hes ever thought of, so I'm not complaining in the least. He definitely seems to have stepped up his pace this season as far his schedule for mopping the floor with Brittania is concerned.

It did also bug me they just automatically assumed he had some master plan going when he disappeared on them during the Black Rebellion. I mean, I can understand Ougi's faith, Zero turned his whole group around with just a flick of his wrist, so I'm betting Ougi secretly worships the ground Zero walks on. But Toudou just wrote it off so easily. I was expecting a little more of a challenge of sorts :/ As far as the rest of the order is concerned, I'm sure they have mixed feelings about Zero at the moment, and that'll come back to bite Lulu. Oh well, it'll keep things interesting.

I can never get of Kid Suzaku and Kid Lulu. They are so adorable, they're probably the only chibis I would ever fangirl over in public (since most of my fangirling goes to mecha, pretty boys, and basically anything in the overly-not-cute-by-any-means category). I stand by my opinion that Lelouch and Suzaku know each other better than anyone. They're perfect friends, and perfect rivals. They can anticipate one another's thoughts and even synchronize them, and I was in awe and the way they left that sentence off. They truly do know each other better than anyone. I'm also drooling over the fact Suzaku's finally picking up his game a little. His last act in ep 05 was down right demented, so much so, I don't even think Lelouch would pull that if his and Suzaku's roles were switched. AND I'M ABSOLUTELY LOVING EVERY MINUTE OF IT. I have hated Suzaku since 23-24 of R1 and especially since ep 02 of R2, but he finally got interesting again. I do not believe however that Lelouch is going to make the same mistake again, that Suzaku will value the relationship they had as children and spare him/join him. No, he knows Suzaku is out for blood, and hes ready to play the same game.

[saverellawish.livejournal.com]

Suzaku really live up to his name in his different atmospheres around different people. I love how he is around Lelouch now, its like they're constantly insulting each other when the other isn't listening. I didn't notice the different reactions to Rivalz and Gino, because obviously I'm a dunce like that, but now that you mention, damn, Suzaku really is a bastard. Suzaku does honestly care for people, like everyone in the student council, that has always been apparent. I just think he goes about it the wrong way some times, but maybe thats because I hate people who are fake around everyone. I know Lulu does the same, but it seems so much more natural when Lulu does it, compared to Suzaku purposefully doing it. I could be viewing it wrong, but my opinions on the many theories in Geass range on quite a large scale. I take them to the best of my abilities to understand them. I will say this though, I think the only person Suzaku is real around is Lelouch, and vice versa.

I also love Suzaku's stalking. Like I said I simply adore how much hes stepped it up to keep up on par with Lulu. I'm loving every minute of it.

No kidding about Gino though. That is a scary thought...

I agree with you 100% about Suzaku using Nunally's role to Lelouch as opposed to using her. I believe Suzaku now views Nunally as he did Euphie, as weird as that sounds, I think in his mind, he needs someone to fight for. Someone to have a dream/ambition/wish that he can charge forward for and not dwell the consequences because it was all for "that person." I also agree with Suzaku's comment about losing a lot of friends and an irreplaceable woman. The irreplaceable woman is (no duh) obviously Euphie. As for the friend, it could only be Lelouch. Lelouch as Suzaku viewed him anyway. I crack up thinking at how Kallen basically said Zero could look all he wants, but Lelouch would receive a flying panty flash kick in the eyes if his eyeballs didn't stray elsewhere. Suzaku views Lelouch in pretty much the same way. There "Leouch" and then there "Zero." I can't decide if Suzaku is out to save "Lelouch" by taking away all the factors that made him "Zero," or if hes out to eliminate him altogether because he views him as nothing but "Zero" now, as he inferred "Lelouch" was already dead. Either way Suzaku is protecting Nunnally from "Zero," not really using her.

Damn, its 11:23 P.M. and I have school in the morning, guess I'll have to continue this later :/ Sorry if it sounds like nothing but rambling at this point >.>;;

Re: too long, as usual

[schizofragile.livejournal.com]

So I think that if you were to ask, "Is Suzaku using Nunnally?", the answer is "yes".

FINALLY. THANK YOU FOR SAYING IT.

Suzaku IS using Nunally. He doesn't intend to harm her physically or emotionally, but later on, she will be affected because he used her name/importance to test Lelouch. Maybe She wasn't aware why Suzaku *suddenly* gave her consent to talk to Lelouch after a whole year of separation.

Suzaku thinks he isn't using Nunally, but indeed he is. I remember the time when Suzaku said that he'd give up his friendship to attain his goals--but I don't think he'd do that to her. I hope so. The fact is he is using the physical/whatever attribute of the girl to obtain what he wants (hello there, episode 1-2).


I still can't help but shake my small feeling of disappointment in Suzaku, though.
IAWTC. ♥ ;___; They were so pure back then, but now...


IF Nunally indeed knows that she is a pawn or such and then she uses it to her advantage, she'd be one of the best character ever.



..Too long D8 but I just wanted to say ILUSM♥♥♥ with the Suzaku-Nunally opinion.

Re: too long, as usual

[nayami.livejournal.com]

The distinction is important nonetheless. To me, using a person is on a different level than using a connection, which is what Suzaku is doing. When I think about using a person, I think of what Lelouch does to Rollo or what he planned to do to Euphie. Using their own feelings/emotions against them. Their is a definite promise of their getting hurt in the process. Even if Nunnally knew nothing and would have to learn the truth about Zero and Lelouch, which would lead to some hurt on her part, that realization is not cruel. It's more honest than simply lying and sheltering her forever. I see no reason why Suzaku shouldn't be as utilitarian as possible to stop a mass murderer, who could very well endanger Nunnally. I think the disappointment in Suzaku is unjustified when people remember what Suzaku thinks he's up against.

Re: too long, as usual

[rainbow-cnxn.livejournal.com]

Ah, I see what you mean, and I think most of our differences lie from what it means to "use" someone, mainly that I think you can use someone without the intent to hurt.

And I agree that Nunnally getting in the know is the far more honest option. However, if we were to look at the boys in season one ("one" being the operative word), they are anything but fully honest to her. Lelouch lies to her all the time (or at least tells half-truths), and Suzaku never really delves into the serious bits of his life with Nunnally around. They have had a history of sheltering her for her own best interest, because if she was cognizant of everything, she would surely try to do something about it. And Nunnally taking an active role is undesirable for two reasons: 1) her motivations put a leash on the boys and their ambitions, and 2) she would presumably put herself in the spotlight and/or in harm's way. And I still think that that realization would be cruel, at least from the boys' perspective, because an ignorant Nunnally has infinite choices, while a knowing, empathetic, and empowered Nunnally only really has one. It's a drastic reduction in freedom and increase in moral burden.

So (in my mind), for Suzaku there's competing claims of utilitarianism and keeping Nunnally out of this mess. The caveats are that he may have no control over the latter, and even if he does, R2!Suzaku is different and perhaps a character I dislike more from a purely subjective standpoint.

Re: too long, as usual

[rainbow-cnxn.livejournal.com]

Glad you liked the read. =)

She wasn't aware why Suzaku *suddenly* gave her consent to talk to Lelouch after a whole year of separation.
Actually, we have no idea who gave who consent. Most likely, consent did not come from Suzaku or Nunnally but, rather, from the Emperor giving them a freer hand in their dealings with Lelouch. And I don't think she's completely unaware--she is just highly limited by what she can do. I do believe that there is at least some degree of collusion between Suzaku and Nunnally, and I doubt that he is doing this without her consent.

They were so pure back then, but now...
Yeah, a roiling mess of terrorism, patricide, fratricide, double lives, daddy issues, dead girlfriends, and lots of latent crazy will do that to people. =D

[clymnestra.livejournal.com]

This is very very very well thought-out, and smoothly written. In other words: Love!

But anyway, onto the slightly more intelligent part of this comment.
I have to thank you [as has been done several times already in this post ^^] for defending Suzaku's point of view. It irritates me to no end the ways people bash him without even trying to get where he's coming from. I mean, he lost Euphie and was 'betrayed' by his best friend, all in the height of his "re-evaluating his self-worth and honor in the midst of his past sins and present situation". Forgive him for being just a wee bit more evil in the game.
People also constantly say they hate his being a hypocrite and an idealist. I seriously think though that that hypocrisy [because undeniably it's there to some level], that huge flaw, adds to the beauty of his character. And on idealism ~ Lelouch is very idealistic about his goals as well. The only difference is that he has a Geass; the easy way out/in ~ I'd like to see someone give Suzaku a Geass [OMG] and see how far he goes.

...Personally, from where I'm standing, Lelouch is very much in the wrong right now, constantly using people and lying and whatnot. [Poor dishrag Rollo. Although I predict that later on, he'll develop some brotherly affection for the boy. x3 ]
Suffice it to say he needed a good kick in the pants to throw him off his high horse for a while. [not to say I don't like Lulu though; I love to hate to love Lulu. And, like Suzaku, he has his reasons]

Luckily Suzaku neatly took care of that with a Nunally-spinkick. I agree, yes, Suzaku IS using her. But definitely not abusing her in anyway. This is chess after all: she's strategically placed. He can keep an eye on her to see that she doesn't get hurt [he vowed to protect her in that last episode; even if it means protecting her from Lelouch], he increases his influence in terms of Britannian power towards his original goal, and he gets Lulu to feel how he felt when Euphie was in the same situations. Bang. Checkmate. Clever Knight. Can't wait to see Zero's next move! x3

On that note -- I agree with you on the disappointing sloppiness of the OotB at the moment. That his members let him off the hook for abandoning them appalled me; and that Lelouch as Zero would immediately go for Viletta without even background checking what exactly was up with her and Ougi was not of his usual tact either. Maybe he's just trying to maneuver as quick as possible before any other higher-ups notice that he's regained his memories?

The Zino/Gino-Tamaki likeness was astounding. Did they do that on purpose?? I have to admit though, his relationship with Suzaku is all kinds of adorable. It's like he's Suzaku's second cat, except instead of biting there is cuddling in abundance.

Alright ~ I'm so sorry. This comment is way too long, and BRIMMING with character bias. Again, amazing job on your analysis. I stop now. x3