Episode 18 Discussion?

[nayami.livejournal.com]

You know, I reached the point of my Geass watching where I crave discussion. Sadly I cannot convince any of my buddies to watch the series with me so I was hoping we could establish a regular episode commentary here. I'm most interested in 18 for now since a lot happened in a short span of time, and I thought it would fun to gather some opinions on the matter. I also think it might be fun to evaluate the paths of Lelouch and Suzaku. Surfing the Japanese fanart sites the other night, I encountered many pics comparing the boys' young and then older selves (Yay, my Geass fanart count is almost 700 now). So yeah let's toss up theories for anything and everything regarding the story so far.

Also, is this more of something I should try for after the subtitled versions are released?



My love for Suzaku grows as he continues his bull-headed drive to change Britannia from within. Watching him pursue his fight with Zero, even when he knew Britannia was firing missiles at their location, was so tragic. And Lelouch, who knows what an obstacle Suzaku is but can't bring himself to take the quickest route to dealing with him. I read on the anime blogs that Lelouch was going to geass Suzaku to save himself before the missiles hit. While this is probably true, I prefer the more optimistic view that Lelouch was also trying to save Suzaku in the process. Lelouch has still yet to show which is more important: his revenge or the only people who've ever represented family to him. I say this because he hasn't really been put to the test. This would be the first time, but the fact that both were in a life or death situation tilts the scale a bit. Then we have Suzaku, who doesn't know who Zero is. Someone said Zero was set on eliminating on the Lancelot pilot but was forced back to Lelouch when he learned it was Suzaku. So it remains to be seen whether Suzaku's steadfast devotion to his peace will override his loyalty to his friend once he learns who Zero is. The first picture drama has Lelouch calling Suzaku his worst enemy. While I fear this eventuality because I enjoy the relationship between the boys, I'm curious to see how it will come about. I would hope that the eventually end up working together, but it does not seem to be in Geass' nature.

On that note, I have this feeling either Suzaku or Lelouch might "die" in the break between the series. I foresee a vicious confrontation between the two over something akin to the typical rival/best friend battles.

Diethard scares the shit out of me, and I see him as causing a major problem for Lelouch in the near future. I think he might make another attempt to off Suzaku. I think if anyone takes him out of the picture, it will be Kallen. The two seem to have the greatest respect for Zero, but both have entirely different views of what Zero is. While Kallen wants the leader, Diethard wants the bloodthirsty revolutionist. Now that I've seen Kallen willing to risk everything for Zero, I wonder how she and Suzaku will fair during the island arc. Will she try to win over Suzaku as Zero tried?

I am really tired of any storyline with Nina. I already know it's going to be crappy so I don't care. Shirley, on the other hand, I'm interested in since she knows who Zero is and has knowledge he killed her father. I also fear they're going to butcher any potential Jeremiah had with his new form.

I've read mixed reviews about how Nunnally feels about Suzaku's new position so I'd like a consensus.

Comments

[verity-isle.livejournal.com]

I think they go at him because Suzaku adamantly denies killing while working for massacre experts, and Lelouch knows exactly what he's doing. Well, not exactly, as he'd demonstrated in Shirley's case, but he never denied that he's a killer.

Of course, I don't know what goes on in non-LJ fandom these days? We've been pretty quiet and peaceful. <3

(The Nanaly-in-my-head is definitely less innocent than Lelouch thinks. Canon will probably prove me wrong. But anyone who heard the Lelouch-Mao phone conversation in 16 and still say "I won't forgive you if you make him sad" either knows/understands more than she lets on, is inhumanly naive about how the world works, or has a cog missing somewhere in her head)

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

I don't find Nunally interesting enough to have strong opinions on her; I am not even sure that if they suddenly made something of her now I'd care...it's a bit late. In fact, I think it would just make me groan. She's blah. Again though, I don't dislike her because it isn't possible to have strong feelings about such a dull character.

I still feel there is rampant hypocrisy in this fandom generally when it comes to the bashing of Suzaku and the canonisation of Lelouch. There might be discrepancies between their actions and their words - and this shows how well they're written, as it's very human to say one thing and realistically do something quite different - but Suzaku aims at high ideals, no matter how dirty his hands might have to get in the real world, and Lelouch doesn't. For me, that's the quintessential difference between them.

[verity-isle.livejournal.com]

*laughs* I tend to overanalyze, so I do find Nanaly and her characterization interesting, plus a soft spot for symbiotic sibling relationships. That said, I agree that if they push her into the 'active' plot now it'd be somewhat jarring.

The bashing of Suzaku is annoying, and it pains me to see people not realizing the point of his character. But that's neither here nor there. <3 Also, your final line provokes interesting point. So is Suzaku 'ends' or 'means'? Are both of them Machiavellian bastards?

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

I think that Suzaku is someone who has done something terrible and is trying to recover himself. I describe him as someone who has created a new personality for himself, and even when he falls down in the execution, he's going to keep playing it until it becomes real.

'Fans' seem to be very unforgiving of his attempts, dismissing them as hypocrisy. However, I'm sure it's becoming clearer and clearer to Suzaku that the world is a complicated place and in order to achieve his ideals, he's going to have to compromise and occaisionally take actions that don't measure up to those ideals.

I think Lelouch wants to be Machiavellian and is failing because he's not as clever as he thinks he is. lol.

However, I think they have both realised that in order to achieve the end, an end that is extremely precious to each of them, life forces you into compromise over the means. The level of discomfort and agonising that reality provokes varies.

[verity-isle.livejournal.com]

My interp in a nutshell : Suzaku IS hypocritical, but so what? So is Lelouch. It's hypocritical to hate one hypocrite and love the other.

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

Amen. ^-^ They're two sides of the same coin, which is what will make it so interesting once each is fully aware of the actions of the other.