Episode 18 Discussion?

[nayami.livejournal.com]

You know, I reached the point of my Geass watching where I crave discussion. Sadly I cannot convince any of my buddies to watch the series with me so I was hoping we could establish a regular episode commentary here. I'm most interested in 18 for now since a lot happened in a short span of time, and I thought it would fun to gather some opinions on the matter. I also think it might be fun to evaluate the paths of Lelouch and Suzaku. Surfing the Japanese fanart sites the other night, I encountered many pics comparing the boys' young and then older selves (Yay, my Geass fanart count is almost 700 now). So yeah let's toss up theories for anything and everything regarding the story so far.

Also, is this more of something I should try for after the subtitled versions are released?



My love for Suzaku grows as he continues his bull-headed drive to change Britannia from within. Watching him pursue his fight with Zero, even when he knew Britannia was firing missiles at their location, was so tragic. And Lelouch, who knows what an obstacle Suzaku is but can't bring himself to take the quickest route to dealing with him. I read on the anime blogs that Lelouch was going to geass Suzaku to save himself before the missiles hit. While this is probably true, I prefer the more optimistic view that Lelouch was also trying to save Suzaku in the process. Lelouch has still yet to show which is more important: his revenge or the only people who've ever represented family to him. I say this because he hasn't really been put to the test. This would be the first time, but the fact that both were in a life or death situation tilts the scale a bit. Then we have Suzaku, who doesn't know who Zero is. Someone said Zero was set on eliminating on the Lancelot pilot but was forced back to Lelouch when he learned it was Suzaku. So it remains to be seen whether Suzaku's steadfast devotion to his peace will override his loyalty to his friend once he learns who Zero is. The first picture drama has Lelouch calling Suzaku his worst enemy. While I fear this eventuality because I enjoy the relationship between the boys, I'm curious to see how it will come about. I would hope that the eventually end up working together, but it does not seem to be in Geass' nature.

On that note, I have this feeling either Suzaku or Lelouch might "die" in the break between the series. I foresee a vicious confrontation between the two over something akin to the typical rival/best friend battles.

Diethard scares the shit out of me, and I see him as causing a major problem for Lelouch in the near future. I think he might make another attempt to off Suzaku. I think if anyone takes him out of the picture, it will be Kallen. The two seem to have the greatest respect for Zero, but both have entirely different views of what Zero is. While Kallen wants the leader, Diethard wants the bloodthirsty revolutionist. Now that I've seen Kallen willing to risk everything for Zero, I wonder how she and Suzaku will fair during the island arc. Will she try to win over Suzaku as Zero tried?

I am really tired of any storyline with Nina. I already know it's going to be crappy so I don't care. Shirley, on the other hand, I'm interested in since she knows who Zero is and has knowledge he killed her father. I also fear they're going to butcher any potential Jeremiah had with his new form.

I've read mixed reviews about how Nunnally feels about Suzaku's new position so I'd like a consensus.

Comments

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Yeah Nunnally tends to give off just a touch of incesty vibes for me, but I think that's just because they're used to only relying on each other after losing their connection with the Britannians and later the Kurugis. I wasn't sure where fans were getting Nunnally being all that upset to begin with because when I watched the episode, I didn't notice her looking any more concerned than usual. If anything, I would expect her to be worried because Suzaku is now in even more danger than when he was just a soldier. That's about all I got out of her holding her caretaker's hand in the one scene. It seems people are just projecting Lelouch's feelings onto Nunnally because they want more people to be angry with Suzaku. We're not even sure how *Suzaku* feels about being a knight since he never looks that pleased during the ceremony. I'm not sure why this is.

[keele-san.livejournal.com]

Because I haven't watched eppie 18 yet (because I need subs to understand) I'll be sitting out of this one for now.

But I love your icon and I had to say it! Can I snatch the idea?

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Ah, my mockery of the whole Light vs. Lelouch debate? Sure you can use.

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

I can't help you on Nunally; I don't dislike her (there's nothing to dislike) but she's about as interesting as paint drying, so I don't pay her any attention (she doesn't demand any). *shrug* I can't care what she thinks of Suzaku either way. *shrug*

I've grown to kind of like Diethard since he started running around like a crazy during the episode Lelouch blew up a large percentage of the JLF. This behaviour amused me and thus a minor attachment was born. He's more interesting than I initially thought he was.

I think it likely that everyone Lelouch has met will be some sort of problem for him. Diethard, Vialetta, Orange kun (YAY!), his family members, his student 'friends' and Suzaku. Lelouch has a way with making enemies and neglecting to clean up his mess. Oh well; he was warned, so he'll reap what he's sown in time.

I adored the scene between Nina and Lloyd; it was geek heaven. XD Lloyd even took his glasses off. XDDD Nina would have been a better bride for him than Millay, who's smart but not geeky. lol. I still think Nina's fear of 'Elevens' (or maybe her brains) will have a part to play somewhere, especially as now for the first time she's made a connection with a character from out of the school group. It's a shame you dismiss her - likeable or not, she provokes strong feelings and is therefore automatically more interesting than Nunally! XD

The Shirley situation is interesting now that she's found her abandoned letter; it might take some time before she does anything with it though, as although she'll clearly see she wrote it she might not understand why, as big portions of her memory have been dumped. She could figure it out though, and Lelouch has cleverly removed the only thing that would have stopped her acting against him in the future; her affection for him.

I adore Jeremiah. They could do pretty much anything to/with him and I would still love him. I am just glad to have him back. ^-^ Horrible misfortune wrecked his life and now it's payback time. >:) I hope! :)

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Oh I don't dislike Diethard. In fact, his actions make him a character of more significance, and I root for anyone who can get the ball rolling and further complicate situations. Such is my newfound approval of Shirley. I just know he's going to become a thorn in Zero's side sooner or later.

Yes, Lelouch is very lazy about cleaning up. I think this is mostly because unless it's someone he explicitly hates (i.e. his less innocent family members), he has trouble with his execution. This is why his decision with the JLF truly surprised. It's the first time I've seen him push back his fear of sacrifice for his goal. I guess you could argue he was sacrificing the early rebels in the beginning episodes, but they were fighting for him so it was more of their decision. I think Lelouch often loses his nerve when dealing with someone face-to-face as far as calculated actions go. He didn't shoot Euphemia, and it was Kallen who "took out" Jeremiah. Same deal with Mao, him being away from Mao when he orders his attack. Though this could just be the style of the writing. I truly wonder what he will do about Shirley.

I mostly fear for Nina because she seems a fanservice puppet, and they have made no attempts to further bolster her character beyond that. I get irritated because she wastes screen-time with scenes that are relatively inconsequential to the plot and not comedy relief like others on the council. If her connection with Lloyd leads to her having a role of notice, I might change my mind. I like Lloyd and Millay because Lloyd's used to abuse from Cecile, and Millay strikes me as a closet dominatrix. Because it would be hot.

Wow, I never realized that when it comes to Shirley, Lelouch really did remove his one line of defense. Genius, Lulu, simply genius.

I'm cool with Jeremiah as long as he steals back Villetta doesn't turn into just another obstacle in Lelouch's path. He's smart. I want to see him used to his full potential. Maybe he could go the Shirley route as Villetta was trying to do.

[mitzrael.livejournal.com]

about the Nina/Lloyd geeky moment, it's a big hint at least for me that Lloyd took off his glasses, and I'm not saying it in a romantic sense or anything ^^U just a geek-sense. Remember that Nina has helped ,without being aware of it,Lelouch/Zero with the whole Narita thingy? I think it won't take too long for Lloyd and therefore Schneizel to figure out who is Zero or at least who truly is Lamperouge Lelouch.

Lloyd taking off his glasses points that he's taken quite seriously what Nina is showing him and so, he may discover some interesting data as well. Another point to watch out in the future. Poor Lelouch always forget to clean his mess... that will come back to bite his arse some time soon, real soon X3!

[verity-isle.livejournal.com]

He definitely has problem cleaning up. The way I see it...Suzaku's chronically passive about taking the gun (not that I blame him after what happened the last time he did take steps) and Lelouch's chronically passive about pulling the last trigger. He's downright scared of the idea. The #1 reason why a Lulu-Raito comparison is very, very misleading.

I mean, would it seriously hurt anything if he killed Viletta back in #2? Nope. I'm not sure if this translates in him being very secure or very insecure.

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

So, though, was it only me for whom the most exciting and important moment of the whole actual episode (Orange kun in the OP not withstanding) was this;



Fascinating and timely plot deveopment or an excuse for helpless fangirl screaming?

(I am not in the latter camp. I am not! Stop laughing, I am very serious about plot!)

[nayami.livejournal.com]

He's hot but what's with the emo pouty face? I still am excited to see him here because they've been teasing us for his appearance for a while now.

[zalem.livejournal.com]

Finally! And next episode he will actually talk. I really am dying of curiousity. I've been wondering what the 2nd prince is like for a while. We know he is super smart and a good strategist (Nunnally mentioned he was Lulu's most difficult "opponent" when they were younger). There have also been mentions of him being a "good" person. But I can't help but be suspicious about that. This family has a nasty streak afterall, so I doubt any of them are really all that good. Maybe Euphie might be the exception, but we really don't know enough about her. Anyway, I'm really looking forward to ep. 19!

[verity-isle.livejournal.com]

IF THEY KILL HIM OFF BY THE SEASON ENDING AS SOME PEOPLE SUGGESTED I WILL BE A VERY PISSED OFF VIEWER. Seriously. I will demand a refund. Considering how long we've waited, that'd be like the MOST ANTICLIMATIC ENDING EVER. >:[[

For 19, I'm more interested in what he's like than the Island. And I am very interested in Island.

[deadums.livejournal.com]

I haven't watched 18 yet either, but man, this is probably one of the few anime that really makes me want to talk and debate about!

I'll probably come back after watching it. But as I am informed now, I agree with you. I've always liked Suzaku. I think I've always thought he was more than a two dimensional good guy. One of the first things he does is take off his own gas mask to save Lelouch when the supposed Poison Gas Container opens. And after that initial show of extreme self-sacrifice, I was hooked. I was sure he had reasons to be so awesome.

I got sort of miffed in Episode 17 when Lelouch was all plotting the future of Suzaku as Nunnally's knight, "if that person was his raison d'etre" or something along those lines. Lelouch seeing even Suzaku as another pawn - and when that plan was shot to hell he freaked out. Probably knocked Lelouch down a notch, you know.

Euphie I am eh about still. To me, she's probably one of the most static characters (person in high position whose views are different from the greater Power, does things outside of her supposed role, etc) - but I might simply dislike that sort of character model. Nunally is pretty boring as well lol.

BUT YEAH, way to deviate from the topic ha ha.

[tatooine.livejournal.com]

I have this amazing love for Euphie. I wouldn't be surprised if she starts making a serious bid for the emperorship after that exchange between her and Cornelia about "I love the Numbers; let's stop treating them like shit" "You need to be Emperor to do that." I'm also glad that she's showing her backbone again -- after bitchslapping those Elevens, she's done a lot of wavering in her official responsibilities, and seeing her get in a Knightmare (oh god, I just typed "mobile suit") was very cool.

And Nina. Heh. I doubt her story arc will go anywhere too major, but watching her talking with Lloyd was at least interesting.

[empanadas]

I know, right? Euphie was awesome, especially when she is taking charge in her Knightmare and then all "Where's Suzaku?! You're gonna let him die?! Not gonna happen!" at the guys.

About Nina, I could see her fighting Suzaku (and failing VERY hard) over Euphie.

[verity-isle.livejournal.com]

Euphie is incredible and grossly underrated. She's got the boys' desire to change without their tunnel vision and fear of stepping on ants (Lelouch has it too, albeit in a less morally right and more selfish way). I actually think she's the more apt comparison to what Zero tries to do than Suzaku, really.

The only thing I hope about Nina's story is that it would not be another OMG NUCLEAR IS BAD PEOPLE RUN FOR THE HILLS. I've seen enough of that to last a lifetime.

PS. Pre-deletion, the previous comment has the most incredible typo ever.

[empanadas]

Ok, so I was watching the raw versions of Stage 18 at YouTube. Am I the only one who noticed that at certain points, the voices don't watch the scenes? Or am I merely hallucinating? Or did I watch a bad raw? Ah, well.

Anyway, this episode is really awesome. :D The cliffhanger at the end was all "Did Lelouch really geass Suzaku?!". Really intense.

've read mixed reviews about how Nunnally feels about Suzaku's new position so I'd like a consensus.

Well, considering that in Suzaku's celebration party at Ashford Academy, Milly told Suzaku that Nunnally was the one who planned it. I don't think she's really upset about it at all.

[sapphire-pyro.livejournal.com]

I haven't really seen eppie 18 ^^; but I've read enough spoilers so . .. . xD

That's a sad fate between those two friends =( I love best friends stories xD but I surely hope it won't turn out that tragic in Code Geass . . .though I can see that happening =(

In my opinion, if ever Suzaku finds out that Lelouch is Zero, there's still the possibility for him to kill Lulu even though they were friends because . . .he was actually able to kill his own father . .. what more to a friend >_>

I'm sick of Shirley . .. but much worse on NINA!!!! T_T uuuurrrggghhh . . .. makes my blood boil.

[zalem.livejournal.com]

We don't really know how much Shirley knows though. Depends on how much was in that letter. I went and looked at that episode again and there wasn't much written (a definite mention of the Black Knights though), but then part of it was cut off so who knows how much she wrote. I would think if it actually mentioned that Lelouch was Zero she would be way more upset. Instead she just seems really curious about Lulu. I think the letter definitely made some connection between the Black Knights and Lulu though at the very least, so he's still in trouble.

I was thinking the same thing as someone else above about that nina and lloyd scene. I really want a sub cause I'm curious if Nina was talking about the stuff that helped Lulu at Narita. If so, then it seems pretty clear from Lloyd's obvious interest that he might be clued in to the fact that Zero has a connection with the school. And once he has that, it's easy to find Lulu. He just needs to look at the school's roster. Even, if all that isn't the case I think from the spoilers we've had that Nina will eventually start helping Lloyd and Co. out.

As for the Nunnally thing, I don't think she was sad at all. I think she was almost happy. She seems actually fond of Euphie so I don't see why she wouldn't be happy for the both of them.

On that note, I have this feeling either Suzaku or Lelouch might "die" in the break between the series. I foresee a vicious confrontation between the two over something akin to the typical rival/best friend battles.

It will be like Athrun/Kira in episode 30 of GS....therefore whichever one is the equivalent of Kira will have their gundam knightmare destroyed and "die". Then he shall come back with an even more badass mecha and kick everyone's ass. Ahahaha...just kidding. Well maybe not they could very well do that. And we all know there's definitely going to be a major confrontation. Can't wait!

I do hope I don't bash but it's just my opinion...don't sue or flame me...

[gackt-gratia.livejournal.com]

Need to drop some comments here...not inttending to bash this anime series but...

1. This anime is freakishly reminding me of Athrun and Kira of Gundam Seed with the whole intrigue of best friends/childhood friends aka Lelouch and Suzaku's relationship. Not to mention they hate each other's guts when their in battle yet in the neutral ground aka the school, they act as civilized students and best of friends. The dramatization of their love/hate relationship is just soooo similar to that of Gundam Seed...I wonder if the ending will be similar to how Athrun and Kira end up. Yet I do pray not!

2. As usual...Lelouch still disappoints me as he is not as villain as he should be. There are many and much opportunities of kicking all the Britanian asses but of course his path has to be hindered by his emotion while his calculation is freakishly accurate, still, it's his heart and his attachment that cause him often to hesitate to finish the job. Not a very good badass since well if you want to be a villain you should be prepared for the worst and that should be including killing your friends.

But!

1. I like the irony of Lelouch and Suzaku's relationship. I do hope they end up better than Kira and Athrun. I wonder if circumstances are kinder to them. May their future kind to them!
2. The emotion of Lelouch as often he shows while he is as ZERO is very good too, marvelous and hillarious as it keeps reminding me that a villain is too a mere human!
3. Actually, why can't they guess that ZERO is Lelouch is beyond my thought. Well at least they should have a psychiatrist to analyze that ZERO is far too idealist to be an adults. Adults, even as an idealist, is not that headstrong upon obtaining what he wants and usually they compromise. Lelouch is just like a child that is obsessive-complusive to me. Furthermore, even if he is genius, it's quite clear that he is inexperienced in the field battle which is not as constant as what to predict on the board of chess pieces. And why the heck he can't even predict or calculate Lancelot's movement? Ck ck ck in this game you should predict all the usages of all those chess pieces, considering he has met Lancelot twice! --> please refer to the battle in Narita .

Personally, I like this anime! I even adores Lelouch! Can' resist his sharp purple eyes.

I do hope the ending won't be like what I have thought I would be...ZERO aka Lelouch died in the battle but it's not SUzaku who killied him (or perhaps Suzaku killed him), then all left is Euphie living in harmony with Nunnaly as she now takes care of Nunnaly in the absence or death of Lelouch. I personally think Lelouch can't have his revenge fulfilled. C.C'll die and Suzaku will live alongside Euphie and Nunnaly as he swears himself that now he takes care of Nunnaly.

That would be sucks if my predicament is more or less accurate!

Pray it won't be...that's why I keep watching this movie, not to mention I am very yaoi-minded girl therefore I kinda see there is something between Suzaku and Lelouch hahahaha ;P

They're one of my OTP pairing these days ^^

Re: I do hope I don't bash but it's just my opinion...don't sue or flame me...

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

On your criticisms, I still think it is very important to keep reminding this fandom that not everyone in the world has seen this Gundam Seed. I haven't. And I'm not interested in it. I have certainly realised from the constant going-on about two characters called Athrun and Kira (and someone called Lacus) that there seem to be some similarities, but these comparisons some people see are not universally perceived. I feel lucky to have never fallen over Seed; I can enjoy Geass for itself. ^-^

Further, Lelouch is not the villain! Lelouch is the hero. Anti-hero, since Code Geass is delightfully ambiguous when it comes to it's character's morality, but the anti-hero nevertheless.

[verity-isle.livejournal.com]

If they end up working together, there needed to be some kind of final boss that would make them put aside their differences, which could be C.C.'s people. But that wouldn't solve a thing, so I'm not really looking forward to such a scenario. I love their interactions, but I'd like it better if both face the consequences of their actions and their relationship deteriorate in something more than the usual rival-on-other-side way. Suzaku has done less to harm the relationship, so I'd say he'd be a lot more sympathizable, but Lulu would probably hurt more. Dork's emotionally clingy, which led to the 'test' you mentioned. It's his main characteristic vs. his main characteristic.

Diethard/Zero = Creepy, creepy, stalker OTP. I am serious. Lulu's life is interesting. Everyone who's expressed interest in him is either Oedipal, stalker, or both. As for the "Kallen = leader, Diethard = bloodthirty revolutionist" rationale, my interpretation differs slightly. If you ask me, I'd put it more as..."Kallen = The Ideal Idealistic Leader (which Lelouch wants to be deep down. You know the dork wants it)" and Diethard = "Ruthless Extremist Idealistic Leader (which Lelouch's worldview sometimes is, if not his actions)". The two levels of contrast here fascinates me a lot. It's interesting in how the Black Knights are received in the long campaign run.

Shirley I'm interested in. All her letter wrote about was Zero's identity and his crime, IIRC, and Lelouch has definitely removed the only line of defense he has now : her love. Just because he can't deal with personal trauma, personal commitment, or idea that Things Change. If she pulls the same stunt now, Lulu would have to really face the results of his indecision, and it wouldn't be pretty. I'd really, really like that, esp. considering what he thinks of himself during that whole arc.

Nunnally/Suzaku. I do like the idea of Nunnally/Suzaku, but if Nunnally has ever looked at any male with the 'forever and ever' clincher, it's Lelouch. And vice versa, though less so now that he'd been reality check'd often lately. XD Not necessarily incestual, but I daresay her brother complex is larger than Cornelia's Gloucester, and sliiiiiightly leans that way. In that she doesn't care about the rest of the world's XY if Lelouch stays with her platonically. Er. Where was I? Suzaku. I feel sad about the whole thing, but Nunnally probably is very happy about it. She likes Euphemia, she likes Suzaku. She knows he's been trying hard and that his previous position isn't all that grand. So her second favourite person finally gets approved by society (symbolically speaking) and moving ahead in his life. He's not stuck in the 'no future' clique she and Lulu are in. She could probably see his bright future opening up in front of him...what's not to be happy about?

Unless she knows who Zero is, in which case...this is a very fucked up family you have, Lelouch Vi Britannia.

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

I think Diethard fell in love the moment he ran out into the street to film Zero when he rescued Suzaku; Diethard is such a drama lover! XD

I think Lelouch might have a chance with Shirley if she decides to take her thoughts to someone else on the council, like Millay for example, rather than act on it alone. After all, as far as Shirley knows, they're all loyal Brittanians. It's possible that Lelouch's secret might well spread far further than he'd like it, but it might reach people with enough of an investment in him to stall the damage at least.

Just a random thought; you know all the stuff about the Chinese Federation and where they stand etc? Do you think it was just a coincidence that Mao was Chinese?

[berlin1948.livejournal.com]

Actually this is a nice point of view.
What if there is Geass-Organization which has its target to take revevenge on the world
for something that happend in the past but always failed because Britania is one of their strongest enemys.
All they needed where a suitable king to lead them in this war. A Criteria would be a strong hatred against Britania. Lelouche is a perfect Canidate because he has also the brain to fulfill this Ambition.

As for Shirley, i'm still unsure what she's thinking after she found this letter.
She might be researching about her relationship with lulu since the memories of him were all erased.
People are still talking at school about them, so the posibility of
a sucsessful Information-gathering is given. I think she will first take
action after [.....] (the person with Amnesia - forgoten her name) will regain her memory.

As for Karen, i still wonder, when will lulu show her his face and will there be some kind of relationship
between them. Even now her loylty for zero is out of the Scale
so there should be no constraints for that and i can't imagine her ever betraying him. She, knowing his face will enable lulu to better control Diethard influenc on her.

At the End of the 18th Episode Lulus future Knightmare apears. I wonder
myself what the onnecting between the Geass and this Knightmar is.

And by the way, Ligh and Lulu are totaly diffrent and Lulu will never end
like him. Lulu promised CC and himself that he would never lose him self to the Power.

[gryffindorsnake.livejournal.com]

Ahhh Suzaku. I love how he's so devoted to the cause. Because of that, if he eventually finds out who Zero is, I don't think he'll end up helping Zero. He's proved really stubborn in his views on Zero's approach to things, and I doubt that the fact Zero is his childhood friend Lelouch will change anything. It'll crank up the angst factor another notch or two, that's for sure. *can't wait*

I agree with you about Diethard. The fact that he, as a Brittanian is working with Zero all of a sudden (if his reasons for changing sides was stated, then I need to re-watch the episodes, lol sorry). His apparent obsession with journalism makes me worry. I don't like him. Ha.

700?! ...share? XD