Episode 18 Discussion?

[nayami.livejournal.com]

You know, I reached the point of my Geass watching where I crave discussion. Sadly I cannot convince any of my buddies to watch the series with me so I was hoping we could establish a regular episode commentary here. I'm most interested in 18 for now since a lot happened in a short span of time, and I thought it would fun to gather some opinions on the matter. I also think it might be fun to evaluate the paths of Lelouch and Suzaku. Surfing the Japanese fanart sites the other night, I encountered many pics comparing the boys' young and then older selves (Yay, my Geass fanart count is almost 700 now). So yeah let's toss up theories for anything and everything regarding the story so far.

Also, is this more of something I should try for after the subtitled versions are released?



My love for Suzaku grows as he continues his bull-headed drive to change Britannia from within. Watching him pursue his fight with Zero, even when he knew Britannia was firing missiles at their location, was so tragic. And Lelouch, who knows what an obstacle Suzaku is but can't bring himself to take the quickest route to dealing with him. I read on the anime blogs that Lelouch was going to geass Suzaku to save himself before the missiles hit. While this is probably true, I prefer the more optimistic view that Lelouch was also trying to save Suzaku in the process. Lelouch has still yet to show which is more important: his revenge or the only people who've ever represented family to him. I say this because he hasn't really been put to the test. This would be the first time, but the fact that both were in a life or death situation tilts the scale a bit. Then we have Suzaku, who doesn't know who Zero is. Someone said Zero was set on eliminating on the Lancelot pilot but was forced back to Lelouch when he learned it was Suzaku. So it remains to be seen whether Suzaku's steadfast devotion to his peace will override his loyalty to his friend once he learns who Zero is. The first picture drama has Lelouch calling Suzaku his worst enemy. While I fear this eventuality because I enjoy the relationship between the boys, I'm curious to see how it will come about. I would hope that the eventually end up working together, but it does not seem to be in Geass' nature.

On that note, I have this feeling either Suzaku or Lelouch might "die" in the break between the series. I foresee a vicious confrontation between the two over something akin to the typical rival/best friend battles.

Diethard scares the shit out of me, and I see him as causing a major problem for Lelouch in the near future. I think he might make another attempt to off Suzaku. I think if anyone takes him out of the picture, it will be Kallen. The two seem to have the greatest respect for Zero, but both have entirely different views of what Zero is. While Kallen wants the leader, Diethard wants the bloodthirsty revolutionist. Now that I've seen Kallen willing to risk everything for Zero, I wonder how she and Suzaku will fair during the island arc. Will she try to win over Suzaku as Zero tried?

I am really tired of any storyline with Nina. I already know it's going to be crappy so I don't care. Shirley, on the other hand, I'm interested in since she knows who Zero is and has knowledge he killed her father. I also fear they're going to butcher any potential Jeremiah had with his new form.

I've read mixed reviews about how Nunnally feels about Suzaku's new position so I'd like a consensus.

Comments

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Yeah Nunnally tends to give off just a touch of incesty vibes for me, but I think that's just because they're used to only relying on each other after losing their connection with the Britannians and later the Kurugis. I wasn't sure where fans were getting Nunnally being all that upset to begin with because when I watched the episode, I didn't notice her looking any more concerned than usual. If anything, I would expect her to be worried because Suzaku is now in even more danger than when he was just a soldier. That's about all I got out of her holding her caretaker's hand in the one scene. It seems people are just projecting Lelouch's feelings onto Nunnally because they want more people to be angry with Suzaku. We're not even sure how *Suzaku* feels about being a knight since he never looks that pleased during the ceremony. I'm not sure why this is.

[keele-san.livejournal.com]

Because I haven't watched eppie 18 yet (because I need subs to understand) I'll be sitting out of this one for now.

But I love your icon and I had to say it! Can I snatch the idea?

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

I can't help you on Nunally; I don't dislike her (there's nothing to dislike) but she's about as interesting as paint drying, so I don't pay her any attention (she doesn't demand any). *shrug* I can't care what she thinks of Suzaku either way. *shrug*

I've grown to kind of like Diethard since he started running around like a crazy during the episode Lelouch blew up a large percentage of the JLF. This behaviour amused me and thus a minor attachment was born. He's more interesting than I initially thought he was.

I think it likely that everyone Lelouch has met will be some sort of problem for him. Diethard, Vialetta, Orange kun (YAY!), his family members, his student 'friends' and Suzaku. Lelouch has a way with making enemies and neglecting to clean up his mess. Oh well; he was warned, so he'll reap what he's sown in time.

I adored the scene between Nina and Lloyd; it was geek heaven. XD Lloyd even took his glasses off. XDDD Nina would have been a better bride for him than Millay, who's smart but not geeky. lol. I still think Nina's fear of 'Elevens' (or maybe her brains) will have a part to play somewhere, especially as now for the first time she's made a connection with a character from out of the school group. It's a shame you dismiss her - likeable or not, she provokes strong feelings and is therefore automatically more interesting than Nunally! XD

The Shirley situation is interesting now that she's found her abandoned letter; it might take some time before she does anything with it though, as although she'll clearly see she wrote it she might not understand why, as big portions of her memory have been dumped. She could figure it out though, and Lelouch has cleverly removed the only thing that would have stopped her acting against him in the future; her affection for him.

I adore Jeremiah. They could do pretty much anything to/with him and I would still love him. I am just glad to have him back. ^-^ Horrible misfortune wrecked his life and now it's payback time. >:) I hope! :)

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

We're not even sure how *Suzaku* feels about being a knight since he never looks that pleased during the ceremony. I'm not sure why this is.

Because he is an 'eleven' chosen for an extremely senior position standing in a room full of Brittanian aristos who resent and hate the sight of him?

Poor Suzaku. He wants the position, but I'm not sure he's interested in ceremony and that kind of exposure. The scene demonstrates that he's already 'won' though; he has what he needs to proceed - the support of a few key people.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

As cute as the idea by Nunnally side is, I agree that it would not be fair to the dynamics of his character. And people in the fandom really do side with Lelouch more on most things. Me, I used to be annoyed with Suzaku but now that I've seen he's more than just some blindly charging hero, I enjoy him more and appreciate the chance to pit his views against Lelouch's.

I like your options for Suzaku's feelings during the ceremony. I do think that he's pleased at the chance to work more with Britannia since his whole deal is to change them from the inside. He probably appreciates the chance to spend more time with Euphemia as well. But at the same time, he knows how much this will increase Britannia's resentment of him.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Ah, my mockery of the whole Light vs. Lelouch debate? Sure you can use.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Oh I don't dislike Diethard. In fact, his actions make him a character of more significance, and I root for anyone who can get the ball rolling and further complicate situations. Such is my newfound approval of Shirley. I just know he's going to become a thorn in Zero's side sooner or later.

Yes, Lelouch is very lazy about cleaning up. I think this is mostly because unless it's someone he explicitly hates (i.e. his less innocent family members), he has trouble with his execution. This is why his decision with the JLF truly surprised. It's the first time I've seen him push back his fear of sacrifice for his goal. I guess you could argue he was sacrificing the early rebels in the beginning episodes, but they were fighting for him so it was more of their decision. I think Lelouch often loses his nerve when dealing with someone face-to-face as far as calculated actions go. He didn't shoot Euphemia, and it was Kallen who "took out" Jeremiah. Same deal with Mao, him being away from Mao when he orders his attack. Though this could just be the style of the writing. I truly wonder what he will do about Shirley.

I mostly fear for Nina because she seems a fanservice puppet, and they have made no attempts to further bolster her character beyond that. I get irritated because she wastes screen-time with scenes that are relatively inconsequential to the plot and not comedy relief like others on the council. If her connection with Lloyd leads to her having a role of notice, I might change my mind. I like Lloyd and Millay because Lloyd's used to abuse from Cecile, and Millay strikes me as a closet dominatrix. Because it would be hot.

Wow, I never realized that when it comes to Shirley, Lelouch really did remove his one line of defense. Genius, Lulu, simply genius.

I'm cool with Jeremiah as long as he steals back Villetta doesn't turn into just another obstacle in Lelouch's path. He's smart. I want to see him used to his full potential. Maybe he could go the Shirley route as Villetta was trying to do.

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

Lelouch ought to think carefully about the fate of Mao, lest it becomes his own. I *like* thorns in Lelouch's side. The more the merrier. >:)

The Code Geass title for Miss Pointless Fanservice belongs to Karen, not Nina. But then if I actively dislike anyone in this highly likeable ensemble cast it's Karen, so I don't speak about her as I am biased.

I think Nina's scenes have been very important (especially the hostage incident) not necessarily to direct plot, but certainly to her character, and character drives plot. If they're really going for 2 seasons, there is a lot of time for any relevance to be revealed yet.

Personally, I don't think anyone could dominate Lloyd; whatever happens with Cecile happens because he tolerates it. ^-^ That's why they're so amusing together! :D

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

Nina has been set up for some time now as a geek clever patriot who is afraid of 'elevens' (an irrational fear exacerbated, unsurprisingly, by being held hostage at gunpoint...) and who loves Euphemia (if not as literally as she'd clearly like...O_O). She might not become anything, but then again the potential has been there for quite a while. :)

Orange kun ...I am just so happy to see his upgrade. He deserves it! Though I am not sure about his mental state; he was on the verge of a breakdown from the (unfair!) pressure before he was injured. He needs Vialetta someone nice to come along and be specially nice to him. ^-^ And not call him an Orange (I am a mean mean fan! :O But I mean it very affectionately)

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Well, I was more favorable toward Nina before the whole Euphemia obsession turned into a masturbation scene. I don't seen the need for fan service pandering of that level. We could have done without it. The only thing I'm really interested in Nina right now is her aversion to 11s, very Fllay toward Coordinators by the way. I like how that fear could tie into the Suzaku/Euphemia situation. But I would like to see a scene with her that doesn't directly deal with her panting over Euphemia. More Lloyd interaction could help that.

Oh I'm sure he does. I just see Lloyd as the type who's into that sort of play. He's a rascally one, that man.

[(Anonymous)]

I think you´re right: he did smile when the britanians stared clapping for him.

[mitzrael.livejournal.com]

about the Nina/Lloyd geeky moment, it's a big hint at least for me that Lloyd took off his glasses, and I'm not saying it in a romantic sense or anything ^^U just a geek-sense. Remember that Nina has helped ,without being aware of it,Lelouch/Zero with the whole Narita thingy? I think it won't take too long for Lloyd and therefore Schneizel to figure out who is Zero or at least who truly is Lamperouge Lelouch.

Lloyd taking off his glasses points that he's taken quite seriously what Nina is showing him and so, he may discover some interesting data as well. Another point to watch out in the future. Poor Lelouch always forget to clean his mess... that will come back to bite his arse some time soon, real soon X3!

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

I find it amazing that that masturbation scene has caused so much fuss! I laughed at it, thought it was an amusingly random, slightly outrageous thing to throw in, and haven't given it much thought since!

But a lot of people have been really hating on Nina since then, which is odd since it's not like she really did anything public or hurtful to anyone. The lesson I have learned is this; you can blow up half your own side for your personal purposes and fandom will still love you, but if you masturbate, you're dead in the water. Lol.

Lloyd surely is a handsome rascal. \^-^/

[(Anonymous)]

Actually, I think that Nina´s obssession WILL be important, think about it: she was scared of suzaku and loves euphemia and now hates him because they are close (Spoiler for futeure episode: he will give back the knighood, but I don´t think this will change nina) Nina might try to harm suzaku or conspire against him with someone, believing she is "helping" euphi or something. She is a potential thorn.

About Lloyd: he might be in for the engagement because the ashford family used to have great technology.

About Orange-kunXVilleta: this will be more interesting now that she lost her memory; if orange-kun comes back, will she remember him and if she does, will she still feel the same about him after staying with ougi?

Suzaku: I have to admit I doubt he will ever stop being in the army now. Even if he did start suporting the japanese, everyone knows who he is now, joining the order would be impossible. It will be interesting to see what he does when he finds out who zero is and how he´ll be able to cope with the orders to kill him. Although, he did refuse to shoot lulu in the first episode, showing he isn´t THAT loyal. I also wonder if he recognised lulu´s eye since he wasn´t geassed afterwards

sorry for the long post people!

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

I always thought it was a bit of a dead giveaway that Lelouch and Nunally were still using their own names myself...XD

[mitzrael.livejournal.com]

it's not like there's an awful amount of people called that way ^^UU

[nayami.livejournal.com]

To be fair to Nina, my resentment toward that scene goes more toward the creators using her for fan service and is less of her fault. I get equally annoyed with all their shots of naked Kallen. I don't like when girls are used for the SHOCK factor in that way. Seed would sometimes balance things with fan service on the guys too. (Not that Geass is Seed but I want an easy shonen mech comparison.) I want more of that.

Well, in fiction mentality, blowing up half your side makes you nuts = interesting while random scenes of masturbation makes you weird = not sure how to feel about.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Fiction peoples = stupid. It's the classic Clark Kent/Superman factor. Or if we tie in anime, the obvious hair Sailormoon factor.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Hmm, I didn't know about the rejecting knighthood thing. I really don't know what Nina could do to Suzaku though, as even her dealings with Lloyd shouldn't affect him since Lloyd supports Suzaku. I don't see her siding with the Black Knights either. Maybe she'll be some sort of loose canon that will ally with a completely different side.

I just want Jeremiah and Villetta to get back together. ;_;

Yes, but when Suzaku refused to shoot Lelouch then, he believed Lelouch was an innocent civilian. Now Lelouch is actively representing everything Suzaku wants to stop. This is the boy who was willing to kill his own father for peace. We can't be sure what Suzaku will do. He's not as predictable as I once thought. People argue this is character inconsistency, I say it just makes for more interesting entertainment. Suzaku is consistent in that he's driven, and that's all there is to it. He matches Lelouch in this way, although from what I've seen Suzaku is willing to sacrifice much more. I doubt Suzaku can recognize an eye since all Britannian royals have purple eyes.

[keele-san.livejournal.com]

Well, was going to take the idea itself and make a new icon out of it. ^_^

that is... if ya don't mind.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

That's what I meant. I figured you were thinking of improving it since I've seen you post icons before.

[empanadas]

That's true! Y'know that someone will eventually put two and two together to find out that yes, Lelouch and Nunnally are still alive. xD

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

I still find hilarious that people have a worse problem with masturbation than they do with mass murder. ;)

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

So, though, was it only me for whom the most exciting and important moment of the whole actual episode (Orange kun in the OP not withstanding) was this;



Fascinating and timely plot deveopment or an excuse for helpless fangirl screaming?

(I am not in the latter camp. I am not! Stop laughing, I am very serious about plot!)

[nayami.livejournal.com]

He's hot but what's with the emo pouty face? I still am excited to see him here because they've been teasing us for his appearance for a while now.