Episode 18 Discussion?

[nayami.livejournal.com]

You know, I reached the point of my Geass watching where I crave discussion. Sadly I cannot convince any of my buddies to watch the series with me so I was hoping we could establish a regular episode commentary here. I'm most interested in 18 for now since a lot happened in a short span of time, and I thought it would fun to gather some opinions on the matter. I also think it might be fun to evaluate the paths of Lelouch and Suzaku. Surfing the Japanese fanart sites the other night, I encountered many pics comparing the boys' young and then older selves (Yay, my Geass fanart count is almost 700 now). So yeah let's toss up theories for anything and everything regarding the story so far.

Also, is this more of something I should try for after the subtitled versions are released?



My love for Suzaku grows as he continues his bull-headed drive to change Britannia from within. Watching him pursue his fight with Zero, even when he knew Britannia was firing missiles at their location, was so tragic. And Lelouch, who knows what an obstacle Suzaku is but can't bring himself to take the quickest route to dealing with him. I read on the anime blogs that Lelouch was going to geass Suzaku to save himself before the missiles hit. While this is probably true, I prefer the more optimistic view that Lelouch was also trying to save Suzaku in the process. Lelouch has still yet to show which is more important: his revenge or the only people who've ever represented family to him. I say this because he hasn't really been put to the test. This would be the first time, but the fact that both were in a life or death situation tilts the scale a bit. Then we have Suzaku, who doesn't know who Zero is. Someone said Zero was set on eliminating on the Lancelot pilot but was forced back to Lelouch when he learned it was Suzaku. So it remains to be seen whether Suzaku's steadfast devotion to his peace will override his loyalty to his friend once he learns who Zero is. The first picture drama has Lelouch calling Suzaku his worst enemy. While I fear this eventuality because I enjoy the relationship between the boys, I'm curious to see how it will come about. I would hope that the eventually end up working together, but it does not seem to be in Geass' nature.

On that note, I have this feeling either Suzaku or Lelouch might "die" in the break between the series. I foresee a vicious confrontation between the two over something akin to the typical rival/best friend battles.

Diethard scares the shit out of me, and I see him as causing a major problem for Lelouch in the near future. I think he might make another attempt to off Suzaku. I think if anyone takes him out of the picture, it will be Kallen. The two seem to have the greatest respect for Zero, but both have entirely different views of what Zero is. While Kallen wants the leader, Diethard wants the bloodthirsty revolutionist. Now that I've seen Kallen willing to risk everything for Zero, I wonder how she and Suzaku will fair during the island arc. Will she try to win over Suzaku as Zero tried?

I am really tired of any storyline with Nina. I already know it's going to be crappy so I don't care. Shirley, on the other hand, I'm interested in since she knows who Zero is and has knowledge he killed her father. I also fear they're going to butcher any potential Jeremiah had with his new form.

I've read mixed reviews about how Nunnally feels about Suzaku's new position so I'd like a consensus.

Comments

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

I can't help you on Nunally; I don't dislike her (there's nothing to dislike) but she's about as interesting as paint drying, so I don't pay her any attention (she doesn't demand any). *shrug* I can't care what she thinks of Suzaku either way. *shrug*

I've grown to kind of like Diethard since he started running around like a crazy during the episode Lelouch blew up a large percentage of the JLF. This behaviour amused me and thus a minor attachment was born. He's more interesting than I initially thought he was.

I think it likely that everyone Lelouch has met will be some sort of problem for him. Diethard, Vialetta, Orange kun (YAY!), his family members, his student 'friends' and Suzaku. Lelouch has a way with making enemies and neglecting to clean up his mess. Oh well; he was warned, so he'll reap what he's sown in time.

I adored the scene between Nina and Lloyd; it was geek heaven. XD Lloyd even took his glasses off. XDDD Nina would have been a better bride for him than Millay, who's smart but not geeky. lol. I still think Nina's fear of 'Elevens' (or maybe her brains) will have a part to play somewhere, especially as now for the first time she's made a connection with a character from out of the school group. It's a shame you dismiss her - likeable or not, she provokes strong feelings and is therefore automatically more interesting than Nunally! XD

The Shirley situation is interesting now that she's found her abandoned letter; it might take some time before she does anything with it though, as although she'll clearly see she wrote it she might not understand why, as big portions of her memory have been dumped. She could figure it out though, and Lelouch has cleverly removed the only thing that would have stopped her acting against him in the future; her affection for him.

I adore Jeremiah. They could do pretty much anything to/with him and I would still love him. I am just glad to have him back. ^-^ Horrible misfortune wrecked his life and now it's payback time. >:) I hope! :)

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

Nina has been set up for some time now as a geek clever patriot who is afraid of 'elevens' (an irrational fear exacerbated, unsurprisingly, by being held hostage at gunpoint...) and who loves Euphemia (if not as literally as she'd clearly like...O_O). She might not become anything, but then again the potential has been there for quite a while. :)

Orange kun ...I am just so happy to see his upgrade. He deserves it! Though I am not sure about his mental state; he was on the verge of a breakdown from the (unfair!) pressure before he was injured. He needs Vialetta someone nice to come along and be specially nice to him. ^-^ And not call him an Orange (I am a mean mean fan! :O But I mean it very affectionately)

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Oh I don't dislike Diethard. In fact, his actions make him a character of more significance, and I root for anyone who can get the ball rolling and further complicate situations. Such is my newfound approval of Shirley. I just know he's going to become a thorn in Zero's side sooner or later.

Yes, Lelouch is very lazy about cleaning up. I think this is mostly because unless it's someone he explicitly hates (i.e. his less innocent family members), he has trouble with his execution. This is why his decision with the JLF truly surprised. It's the first time I've seen him push back his fear of sacrifice for his goal. I guess you could argue he was sacrificing the early rebels in the beginning episodes, but they were fighting for him so it was more of their decision. I think Lelouch often loses his nerve when dealing with someone face-to-face as far as calculated actions go. He didn't shoot Euphemia, and it was Kallen who "took out" Jeremiah. Same deal with Mao, him being away from Mao when he orders his attack. Though this could just be the style of the writing. I truly wonder what he will do about Shirley.

I mostly fear for Nina because she seems a fanservice puppet, and they have made no attempts to further bolster her character beyond that. I get irritated because she wastes screen-time with scenes that are relatively inconsequential to the plot and not comedy relief like others on the council. If her connection with Lloyd leads to her having a role of notice, I might change my mind. I like Lloyd and Millay because Lloyd's used to abuse from Cecile, and Millay strikes me as a closet dominatrix. Because it would be hot.

Wow, I never realized that when it comes to Shirley, Lelouch really did remove his one line of defense. Genius, Lulu, simply genius.

I'm cool with Jeremiah as long as he steals back Villetta doesn't turn into just another obstacle in Lelouch's path. He's smart. I want to see him used to his full potential. Maybe he could go the Shirley route as Villetta was trying to do.

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

Lelouch ought to think carefully about the fate of Mao, lest it becomes his own. I *like* thorns in Lelouch's side. The more the merrier. >:)

The Code Geass title for Miss Pointless Fanservice belongs to Karen, not Nina. But then if I actively dislike anyone in this highly likeable ensemble cast it's Karen, so I don't speak about her as I am biased.

I think Nina's scenes have been very important (especially the hostage incident) not necessarily to direct plot, but certainly to her character, and character drives plot. If they're really going for 2 seasons, there is a lot of time for any relevance to be revealed yet.

Personally, I don't think anyone could dominate Lloyd; whatever happens with Cecile happens because he tolerates it. ^-^ That's why they're so amusing together! :D

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Well, I was more favorable toward Nina before the whole Euphemia obsession turned into a masturbation scene. I don't seen the need for fan service pandering of that level. We could have done without it. The only thing I'm really interested in Nina right now is her aversion to 11s, very Fllay toward Coordinators by the way. I like how that fear could tie into the Suzaku/Euphemia situation. But I would like to see a scene with her that doesn't directly deal with her panting over Euphemia. More Lloyd interaction could help that.

Oh I'm sure he does. I just see Lloyd as the type who's into that sort of play. He's a rascally one, that man.

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

I find it amazing that that masturbation scene has caused so much fuss! I laughed at it, thought it was an amusingly random, slightly outrageous thing to throw in, and haven't given it much thought since!

But a lot of people have been really hating on Nina since then, which is odd since it's not like she really did anything public or hurtful to anyone. The lesson I have learned is this; you can blow up half your own side for your personal purposes and fandom will still love you, but if you masturbate, you're dead in the water. Lol.

Lloyd surely is a handsome rascal. \^-^/

[nayami.livejournal.com]

To be fair to Nina, my resentment toward that scene goes more toward the creators using her for fan service and is less of her fault. I get equally annoyed with all their shots of naked Kallen. I don't like when girls are used for the SHOCK factor in that way. Seed would sometimes balance things with fan service on the guys too. (Not that Geass is Seed but I want an easy shonen mech comparison.) I want more of that.

Well, in fiction mentality, blowing up half your side makes you nuts = interesting while random scenes of masturbation makes you weird = not sure how to feel about.

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

I still find hilarious that people have a worse problem with masturbation than they do with mass murder. ;)

[(Anonymous)]

Actually, I think that Nina´s obssession WILL be important, think about it: she was scared of suzaku and loves euphemia and now hates him because they are close (Spoiler for futeure episode: he will give back the knighood, but I don´t think this will change nina) Nina might try to harm suzaku or conspire against him with someone, believing she is "helping" euphi or something. She is a potential thorn.

About Lloyd: he might be in for the engagement because the ashford family used to have great technology.

About Orange-kunXVilleta: this will be more interesting now that she lost her memory; if orange-kun comes back, will she remember him and if she does, will she still feel the same about him after staying with ougi?

Suzaku: I have to admit I doubt he will ever stop being in the army now. Even if he did start suporting the japanese, everyone knows who he is now, joining the order would be impossible. It will be interesting to see what he does when he finds out who zero is and how he´ll be able to cope with the orders to kill him. Although, he did refuse to shoot lulu in the first episode, showing he isn´t THAT loyal. I also wonder if he recognised lulu´s eye since he wasn´t geassed afterwards

sorry for the long post people!

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Hmm, I didn't know about the rejecting knighthood thing. I really don't know what Nina could do to Suzaku though, as even her dealings with Lloyd shouldn't affect him since Lloyd supports Suzaku. I don't see her siding with the Black Knights either. Maybe she'll be some sort of loose canon that will ally with a completely different side.

I just want Jeremiah and Villetta to get back together. ;_;

Yes, but when Suzaku refused to shoot Lelouch then, he believed Lelouch was an innocent civilian. Now Lelouch is actively representing everything Suzaku wants to stop. This is the boy who was willing to kill his own father for peace. We can't be sure what Suzaku will do. He's not as predictable as I once thought. People argue this is character inconsistency, I say it just makes for more interesting entertainment. Suzaku is consistent in that he's driven, and that's all there is to it. He matches Lelouch in this way, although from what I've seen Suzaku is willing to sacrifice much more. I doubt Suzaku can recognize an eye since all Britannian royals have purple eyes.

[mitzrael.livejournal.com]

about the Nina/Lloyd geeky moment, it's a big hint at least for me that Lloyd took off his glasses, and I'm not saying it in a romantic sense or anything ^^U just a geek-sense. Remember that Nina has helped ,without being aware of it,Lelouch/Zero with the whole Narita thingy? I think it won't take too long for Lloyd and therefore Schneizel to figure out who is Zero or at least who truly is Lamperouge Lelouch.

Lloyd taking off his glasses points that he's taken quite seriously what Nina is showing him and so, he may discover some interesting data as well. Another point to watch out in the future. Poor Lelouch always forget to clean his mess... that will come back to bite his arse some time soon, real soon X3!

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

I always thought it was a bit of a dead giveaway that Lelouch and Nunally were still using their own names myself...XD

[mitzrael.livejournal.com]

it's not like there's an awful amount of people called that way ^^UU

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Fiction peoples = stupid. It's the classic Clark Kent/Superman factor. Or if we tie in anime, the obvious hair Sailormoon factor.

[empanadas]

That's true! Y'know that someone will eventually put two and two together to find out that yes, Lelouch and Nunnally are still alive. xD

[zalem.livejournal.com]

I always thought that too. I mean they kept their first names and they used their mother's maiden name for a new last name. Any moron can figure it out. That was a pretty dumb move on their part...

[verity-isle.livejournal.com]

He definitely has problem cleaning up. The way I see it...Suzaku's chronically passive about taking the gun (not that I blame him after what happened the last time he did take steps) and Lelouch's chronically passive about pulling the last trigger. He's downright scared of the idea. The #1 reason why a Lulu-Raito comparison is very, very misleading.

I mean, would it seriously hurt anything if he killed Viletta back in #2? Nope. I'm not sure if this translates in him being very secure or very insecure.

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

At the time of episode 2, I think it was because he was too secure; he was using his new Geass very recklessly still, and because he was full of himself (and full of adrenaline), he made mistakes he's forgotten to address. And you're quite right, he doesn't follow through, and considering the course he's embarked on, it might well be his downfall.

Now I think he's being insecure about getting his hands dirty; he has shown he's just as capable as Clovis was of mass killing from a distance - it's easy to say the words or push the button when you're never directly faced with the results. But in person, he can't do it. He couldn't kill Shirley and he couldn't kill Suzaku (and I this point, I think Shirley is the bigger threat as at least Suzaku still cares about him as a friend).

[verity-isle.livejournal.com]

......Oh, I do miss those days. When the power of Geass was bright and shiny and Lelouch was using it in all sorts of dorky ways. You're right, though...anyone who removed all traces of the carnage taken place but NOT the witness either has a superiority complex or was very drunken with the power.

I'm not sure he's inherently insecure about getting his hands dirty. He did that way back in episode 3, after all, way before he started with this Rebellion thing. And the results were likely quite impressive. Point blank shots to the head often are. It could be that back then, he's invested in nothing....there's only Nanaly and seven years of pented up frustrations. Now that he's invested himself in several things...friendship with Suzaku, new contract with CC, Rebellion business...he suddenly has things to lose. And LL doesn't deal with that situation very well. He has a tendency to take everything personally, after all.

Or maybe months of commanding from a chair is getting to him, which may be why he was justifying his and Suzaku's respective killing decisions back in 17.

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

Ah, but the day he shot Clovis was the same day he geassed Vialetta and he was riding the same adrenaline wave. I think he has both the superiority complex (look at his posing ways) and was drunk on the power. Later, when he thought about what he'd done, he was shocked. He couldn't shoot Euphemia at a later point.

[verity-isle.livejournal.com]

I think his posing ways is because he's a COMPLETE DORK and doesn't know better. I mean. Light (for lack of canon examples) probably has a bigger superiority complex but he's socially sane, and you don't see him pretending he's a thespian. I'd say Lelouch has more of an intellectual arrogance than a superiority complex.

Adrenaline is likely. He didn't seem that shocked to me, though....vomiting is a completely acceptable reaction to gore. The negative reaction of that is more "Oh god I made a corpse" than "Oh god I killed someone", if you ask me. For Euphie....it seemed more like he didn't want to shoot her instead of cannot shooting her. Possible that he knows she wants the same world he wants, considering he knew her personally.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

You bring up a good point that I forgot about. Lelouch was disturbed by what he had done to Clovis, and that could have been what stayed his hand with Euphemia. I doubt Lelouch ever point-blank killed someone before, and with Clovis, he was jacked up on his vengeance kick since they were talking about his family and all. With Euphemia, things were more passive and relaxed and I think subconsciously Lelouch rationalized and chickened out. I do wish they would reference this again. Maybe during the island arc.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

The way I see it...Suzaku's chronically passive about taking the gun (not that I blame him after what happened the last time he did take steps) and Lelouch's chronically passive about pulling the last trigger. He's downright scared of the idea.

This is a brilliant analogy for the two. I still think from what I've seen thus far that Suzaku is truer to his convictions than Lelouch. Lelouch definitely has a fear of flight.

[(Anonymous)]

Both have are chorinically passive about something. But both would take the gun/ pull the trigger when need, then feel sorry about it(like lelouch has already done)

Suzaku looks truer to his convictions because he´s been "tested" on what is more important. Lelouch hasn´t had to make a choice yet.