Episode 18 Discussion?

[nayami.livejournal.com]

You know, I reached the point of my Geass watching where I crave discussion. Sadly I cannot convince any of my buddies to watch the series with me so I was hoping we could establish a regular episode commentary here. I'm most interested in 18 for now since a lot happened in a short span of time, and I thought it would fun to gather some opinions on the matter. I also think it might be fun to evaluate the paths of Lelouch and Suzaku. Surfing the Japanese fanart sites the other night, I encountered many pics comparing the boys' young and then older selves (Yay, my Geass fanart count is almost 700 now). So yeah let's toss up theories for anything and everything regarding the story so far.

Also, is this more of something I should try for after the subtitled versions are released?



My love for Suzaku grows as he continues his bull-headed drive to change Britannia from within. Watching him pursue his fight with Zero, even when he knew Britannia was firing missiles at their location, was so tragic. And Lelouch, who knows what an obstacle Suzaku is but can't bring himself to take the quickest route to dealing with him. I read on the anime blogs that Lelouch was going to geass Suzaku to save himself before the missiles hit. While this is probably true, I prefer the more optimistic view that Lelouch was also trying to save Suzaku in the process. Lelouch has still yet to show which is more important: his revenge or the only people who've ever represented family to him. I say this because he hasn't really been put to the test. This would be the first time, but the fact that both were in a life or death situation tilts the scale a bit. Then we have Suzaku, who doesn't know who Zero is. Someone said Zero was set on eliminating on the Lancelot pilot but was forced back to Lelouch when he learned it was Suzaku. So it remains to be seen whether Suzaku's steadfast devotion to his peace will override his loyalty to his friend once he learns who Zero is. The first picture drama has Lelouch calling Suzaku his worst enemy. While I fear this eventuality because I enjoy the relationship between the boys, I'm curious to see how it will come about. I would hope that the eventually end up working together, but it does not seem to be in Geass' nature.

On that note, I have this feeling either Suzaku or Lelouch might "die" in the break between the series. I foresee a vicious confrontation between the two over something akin to the typical rival/best friend battles.

Diethard scares the shit out of me, and I see him as causing a major problem for Lelouch in the near future. I think he might make another attempt to off Suzaku. I think if anyone takes him out of the picture, it will be Kallen. The two seem to have the greatest respect for Zero, but both have entirely different views of what Zero is. While Kallen wants the leader, Diethard wants the bloodthirsty revolutionist. Now that I've seen Kallen willing to risk everything for Zero, I wonder how she and Suzaku will fair during the island arc. Will she try to win over Suzaku as Zero tried?

I am really tired of any storyline with Nina. I already know it's going to be crappy so I don't care. Shirley, on the other hand, I'm interested in since she knows who Zero is and has knowledge he killed her father. I also fear they're going to butcher any potential Jeremiah had with his new form.

I've read mixed reviews about how Nunnally feels about Suzaku's new position so I'd like a consensus.

Comments

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Well, I was more favorable toward Nina before the whole Euphemia obsession turned into a masturbation scene. I don't seen the need for fan service pandering of that level. We could have done without it. The only thing I'm really interested in Nina right now is her aversion to 11s, very Fllay toward Coordinators by the way. I like how that fear could tie into the Suzaku/Euphemia situation. But I would like to see a scene with her that doesn't directly deal with her panting over Euphemia. More Lloyd interaction could help that.

Oh I'm sure he does. I just see Lloyd as the type who's into that sort of play. He's a rascally one, that man.

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

I find it amazing that that masturbation scene has caused so much fuss! I laughed at it, thought it was an amusingly random, slightly outrageous thing to throw in, and haven't given it much thought since!

But a lot of people have been really hating on Nina since then, which is odd since it's not like she really did anything public or hurtful to anyone. The lesson I have learned is this; you can blow up half your own side for your personal purposes and fandom will still love you, but if you masturbate, you're dead in the water. Lol.

Lloyd surely is a handsome rascal. \^-^/

[nayami.livejournal.com]

To be fair to Nina, my resentment toward that scene goes more toward the creators using her for fan service and is less of her fault. I get equally annoyed with all their shots of naked Kallen. I don't like when girls are used for the SHOCK factor in that way. Seed would sometimes balance things with fan service on the guys too. (Not that Geass is Seed but I want an easy shonen mech comparison.) I want more of that.

Well, in fiction mentality, blowing up half your side makes you nuts = interesting while random scenes of masturbation makes you weird = not sure how to feel about.

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

I still find hilarious that people have a worse problem with masturbation than they do with mass murder. ;)

[reboo.livejournal.com]

LOL!

[(Anonymous)]

Actually, I think that Nina´s obssession WILL be important, think about it: she was scared of suzaku and loves euphemia and now hates him because they are close (Spoiler for futeure episode: he will give back the knighood, but I don´t think this will change nina) Nina might try to harm suzaku or conspire against him with someone, believing she is "helping" euphi or something. She is a potential thorn.

About Lloyd: he might be in for the engagement because the ashford family used to have great technology.

About Orange-kunXVilleta: this will be more interesting now that she lost her memory; if orange-kun comes back, will she remember him and if she does, will she still feel the same about him after staying with ougi?

Suzaku: I have to admit I doubt he will ever stop being in the army now. Even if he did start suporting the japanese, everyone knows who he is now, joining the order would be impossible. It will be interesting to see what he does when he finds out who zero is and how he´ll be able to cope with the orders to kill him. Although, he did refuse to shoot lulu in the first episode, showing he isn´t THAT loyal. I also wonder if he recognised lulu´s eye since he wasn´t geassed afterwards

sorry for the long post people!

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Hmm, I didn't know about the rejecting knighthood thing. I really don't know what Nina could do to Suzaku though, as even her dealings with Lloyd shouldn't affect him since Lloyd supports Suzaku. I don't see her siding with the Black Knights either. Maybe she'll be some sort of loose canon that will ally with a completely different side.

I just want Jeremiah and Villetta to get back together. ;_;

Yes, but when Suzaku refused to shoot Lelouch then, he believed Lelouch was an innocent civilian. Now Lelouch is actively representing everything Suzaku wants to stop. This is the boy who was willing to kill his own father for peace. We can't be sure what Suzaku will do. He's not as predictable as I once thought. People argue this is character inconsistency, I say it just makes for more interesting entertainment. Suzaku is consistent in that he's driven, and that's all there is to it. He matches Lelouch in this way, although from what I've seen Suzaku is willing to sacrifice much more. I doubt Suzaku can recognize an eye since all Britannian royals have purple eyes.

[(Anonymous)]

I also can´t imagine Nina allying to the OoBK, I just think that there´s a reason the producers made a character that loves euphi but hates suzaku. I agree with you, she is definately a "loose canon"

I also want them together, I just wonder how on earth orange-kun will find villeta(go orange-kun!!!)

Hum...I think suzaku used "innocent civilian" as an excuse. Yes, he did kill his father for peace, but he repented. He was ordered to go after a zero on one of the first episodes, but stopped to save a woman and her child. One of the many things that I love about Suzaku and Zero is that: they both go after their objectives, but know when to draw the line. Lelouch wants to destroy britannia, but won´t kill his friend for that. I just doubt that suzaku turned into someone so heartless that forgot his important frind(coughboyfriendcough)

Pity about the eyes...sigh

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

Stopping to save a woman and child that time had nothing to do with Zero being Lelouch. Suzaku didn't know that Zero is Lelouch and still doesn't know.

[(Anonymous)]

Hum...maybe I didn´t make myself clear: I meant that although suzaku acts as if he´ll do anything obeying britania, he is still human. An example was when he was ordered to go after zero, but stopped obeying to save a woman

sorry if I didn´t make it clear

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

Ah, yes I see. :) I don't think Suzaku ever has acted that way though; he's openly defied orders before (and done things, in collaboration with Lloyd, that weren't *strictly* sanctioned by the army's chain of command). I think his whole thing is to stick to his morals but try to work within the system. Whatever he's done in the past that he feels he needs to atone for, this is the new him he's creating and he's going to play that part until he becomes it.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree with you, I also think he´s trying to stick to his morals while within the system. Problem is, episode 18 made many people wonder if he would actually go against britannia. I believe he would, and that he only decided to go with the plan (in episode 18) and kill himself along with zero because zero was a threat.

About your "new him he´s creating" I´m worried about that. Because, like lelouch said, he is sacrificing himself more and more and I worry that in the future he might trully die.

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

He's gone against Brittania's orders before as well, when he refused to shoot civilian Lelouch in the (second?) episode. The people who are saying he would never oppose Britannia are mostly just rabid Lelouch fans desperate to bash Suzaku for anything and everything because he's proved an immensly effective opposition. The rabid Lelouch fans don't like the obstacles in his way and they don't like to dwell on his own (considerable) part in his own failures. ;))

Suzaku might die in pursuit of his ideal, but he needs to do what he's doing. As usual with this show, it's ironic that Lelouch should be trying to persuade him to stop doing it in some way when Lelouch won't let go of and is a product of the past himself.

[(Anonymous)]

First episode (his "death" almost mad eme give up the show XD) and...can I hug you? Cause it´s been a long time since I see a fan who doesn´t feel irritaed with suzaku as well XD

The people who are against him forget that up until episode 17, zero would have done the same thing as suzaku if suzaku tried to make him change. Lelouch was also preparing for his death in episode 17! Some people just need someone to hate

I don´t want him to die, ideals or not XD! Yes, what lelouch did was ironic, but unavoidable if he truly believes in what he´s doing.

[thomasvye.livejournal.com]

^-^ Lol, you may hug; I have Suzaku thing on my mobile and I chose it over Lelouch. Tee hee. ^-^ I like Suzaku, I think he's a bit of a charmer.

You should have seen the state I got in over poor Orange kun! XD Well, he deserves at least one fan to worry over him. ;)

I've commented before on the lengths to which the rabid Lelouch fans will go to justify everything he does like he's spotless. The interesting thing about Code Geass is that nobody is!

[(Anonymous)]

yay(hugs) suzaku thing...(steals it and drools over it). He does look like a charmer, problem is, some of his images make him look(to me) like a boy charmer XD (I support luluXsuzaku huhuhu)

I think nobody worried over him because nobody imagined orange-kun´s death XD

True, code geass is interesting because nobody is perfect, and they don´t exactly have to be right to be nice. The rabid fans need a vilain, they find poor suzaku who goes against the main character(who, for some reason, has to be someone perfect and always correct)

[nayami.livejournal.com]

When I said innocent civilian, I wasn't referring to Suzaku's statement but how Suzaku actually viewed Lelouch at the time. Because at the time, that was exactly what Lelouch was: an innocent civilian. Of course, Suzaku would go against an order to kill his best friend. There was no conflict whatsover there. What I do mean is that Suzaku has a black and white view of the world much like Zero, only a reverse view. It makes me think of the new OP where the boys go from normal color into negative, that sort of mentality. Suzaku wants peace and is willing to subjugate himself through practically anything to achieve such as his firing at the JLF and fighting his own master, Toudou. I did like how Suzaku was extremely messed up about being charged with Toudou's execution. Suzaku still retains his love of people though and will sidestep objectives to help others such as what happened with the woman and her child. But Zero on the other hand is a direct obstacle, and I'm not sure Suzaku has repented as much as he would like to think. I actually see Suzaku as more likely to chose peace over Lelouch than Lelouch is to see vengeance over Suzaku. Lelouch has shown time and time again his issues with conviction when it comes to people he cares about or considers truly innocent. So far the JLF is the exception. I guess he rationalized that as the JLF being willing to die anyway.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh sorry, misanderstood the civilian thing XD

I understand your point of you but disagree a little bit. If Suzaku finds out who lulu is and is ordered to kill him, I think he will do the same as lulu, use as much force as possible(lulu pointed a gun at him remember?) to convince him to get out. Unlike lulu, however, suzaku doesn´t have the geass option if his plan fails. I am quite sure that if lelouch didn´t have the geass and suzaku kept in his way he would have to take drastic measures to stop him. Also lelouch has always had the choice of what to do; he is able to chose who should die or not because he´s in power and can have a choice. I believe he and suzaku feel the same but one can´t choose if he wishes to obtain his objective