R2 Episode 2 Discussion: Prometheus

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I am late with this. I have some crappy reasons, but I also have my reading a variety of takes on the episode since whoa talk about a mind trip. I'm still not sure what half of the stuff I'm writing here means, and more than ever am hoping for some great input. Also, remember how long the last post was? Multiply by at least 10. Nayami loev the talking points this time around. But I won't lie. This rundown is almost completely character analysis. That being said...

We all remember the rules of the last discussion post, yes? About the no character-bashing. THEY ARE SUPER IN EFFECT HERE. (For the uninformed, bashing counts as "So and so needs to die" or general name-calling/insulting of any kind. The point here is discussion, not ranting.) Play nice people. Oh and because it came up last time, please don't bring later episode spoilers into these discussions. I don't read spoilers for a reason.

Now without further ado:



Shall we follow the episode's lead and begin with Kallen? A lot of character development going on here. I loved her scene with Lelouch, where she's trying to reconcile how she feels about Lelouch and her loyalty to Zero. I don't think I've ever loved their dynamic more. Seeing how upset Lelouch was at the idea that Kallen had lost her faith in him and his teasing her about back-talking to Zero. They are precious. A popular subject of controversy in this scene is Kallen's line about being Lelouch's slave. I don't think that translation and Lelouch's subsequent concerned reaction match up, as pointed out by Celiss at GameFaqs. Her version of the translation is more toward "I want to believe in you... that was the reason I put up with being a slave" (referring to her undercover bunnygirl job -- also implies that she's been working there waiting for Lelouch for some time). I am also more willing to side with this since it's more consistent with Kallen's characterization, and I think Lelouch would have a sharper reaction otherwise, considering how he corrected Urabe for saying the Black Knights were merely Zero's pawns. More on that later.

On the duality, I'm intrigued. Everyone in Geass seems to thrive on disassociation, even when it falls apart in front of their very eyes, but Kallen's is quite possibly the most special of them all. And Lelouch plays up to it, even going so far as to use "watashi" when he asks about her trust, as noted by another fan. Is it manipulation? Let's hold off on that until we get to the Lelouch segment of this write-up. I'm curious how long Kallen's going to be able to keep up this duality about her leader. Her "I want to" in response to Lelouch's questioning her trust was so beautiful. And yes, the reaction to the not!flirting was ADORABLE. Why, Lelouch, are you trying to have hormones, you sexy devil you? More love to Kallen ready to sacrifice for Lelouch at the end there. I suppose I can forgive her for ditching Lelouch in the cave. Kallen obviously had some shaky feelings to deal with, and there was a gun in her face. I still mrrr a little since bastard or not, Lelouch is her fellow classmate and her teammate, who may I add, did save her from Suzaku in 24. But yeah, people get freaked and the situation was just a little... awkward. I'll let it sliiiide. She won me back when she did the whole bunnygirl thing to save Lelouch's ass. Also note, most honest conversations in Geass happen when a weapon (be it gun or mech) is pointed in your face.

Speaking of gun pointed in face, it's Suzaku's turn. Now, I will be honest. I was somewhat lost here so any take is appreciated. What I will present is a compilation of various opinions (sapphira_angel, kadekmoment, realms_of_life and sephyelysian). First of all, if nobody expected Suzaku to be vicious, they're kind of missing out on the whole male grieving process. Guys tend to express pain in RAGE. So there's that. Not to mention that Suzaku is so used to internalizing everything in his boku identity, whereas his ore persona is the exact opposite. Suzaku is furious with himself for being able to stop Euphie's death or Lelouch's "corruption" so yes, all of that hatred and anger gets shifted onto Lelouch.

The question that comes into play is what happened to that rage between the roaring of Lelouch's name and the disarming shot. Some suggest Geass threw off Suzaku's aim, further fueling his need to ditch the bomb, but each time Geass has come into play, the series has given it special attention, especially with Suzaku. For this reason, I'm inclined to believe that even though we don't get a clear shot of Suzaku's eyes during the shot, he was acting of his own volition. Some Suzaku fans even prefer this interpretation because the whole appeal of ore!Suzaku is that he takes action and doesn't waffle. And there was clearly no waffling going on here! Suzaku wanted to take Lelouch in. Tackling that thought process is where things get tricky. I'm right now denouncing the rosy happy fangirl belief that Suzaku allowed the Emperor to geass Lelouch to effectively "kill" Zero but spare Lelouch. Sorry gals. That assumes Suzaku long knew about the Emperor's geass and plotted this all out and yeah, while he's picked up some scheming abilities, that's really reaching. But there is still much to ponder about why Suzaku would show little reaction to the very obvious fact that the Emperor has a geass and is going to essentially mind-rape their captive, friendship aside. Adding to that is the trade for power. This is the first time we've seen Suzaku make such a move, as his advancement has, up until now, been through Zero's influence. Ironically. I admit I wince a little at the "scheming" that seems present here because I have never thought of Suzaku as a schemer. But then again, this is Suzaku, the phoenix who destroys himself continuously only to be born anew. Perhaps the Suzaku we have now is neither and both ore and boku, as well as something else entirely. Not only that but Suzaku has learned.

This is where I make the possibly insane claim that Suzaku's present thought processes are frighteningly close to Lelouch's. We know that Suzaku is willing to use a situation to get closer to what he's after. Hmm, where have we heard of that before? (Lelouch's plan to use Euphemia's trust to destroy the SAZ and her reputation and then later using her death to advance his cause.) We know he is willing to wait. Pardon me while I BOGGLE at the notion of reckless Suzaku WAITING. Ok, done now. (We've seen in episode 24 that Lelouch is damn good at biding his time, setting up all his geass measures and bombing plans in advance.) And theoretically we see Suzaku now seems to buy into the notion that only power can fight power. Still set on "changing the world from within." More nodding to my belief that this Suzaku is a recreation of all he previous was. But gee, that line of thought is not familiar at all either. "The war will end when someone wins" anyone? Also, as others have pointed out, Suzaku seems to be leaning more toward "the ends justify the means" rather than his usual "the means justify the ends." But with only two episodes and hardly a consistent scene to work with, all of this is open to change.

So why the coincidental shift? I actually had something on this, something about a loss of identity driven by the loss of constants connected with his past and present. But I'm less confident in my analysis after reading some others. Because mine lets Suzaku off the hook, says he's confused and not entirely responsible, and I don't think that's entirely fair to his character. Suzaku may know damn well what he's doing and what he's striving for, and with only choppy scenes to work with, I think making him the poor lost soul is premature. "I have no regrets because we're friends" speaks clearly to that.

This doesn't mean I don't think Suzaku isn't lost in someway. The look in his eyes when he tells Lelouch that yes he is selling him out is a dead give-away, as others have said. I want to point out, though, that when Lelouch asks his question about "selling out your friend," he has no delusions or idealistic beliefs about the state of their relationship. He is angry and just wants to hurt. It's clear that both toss around "friend" as more of a threat or an insult than its previous meaning, a perversion of the word. But yes, Lelouch had no doubt what the answer would be so any whimperings over it are misplaced at best. I grow tired of "Poor Lelouch. That was so meannnn. ;o;" There is also Suzaku's matter-of-fact/detached manner throughout the scene. Seriously creepy. And well done.

But the Suzaku we later see post-flashback is another shift. Though considerably more serious than boku!Suzaku, we also see him react to things such as the Emperor telling him about his weapon. I'm going to take a quick tangent and say I want to know why talking about killing God is all kosher now. Either Suzaku is a damn good actor or he knows that questioning the Emperor is NOT A GOOD IDEA. I also like someone's suggestion that Suzaku has found another father figure. That's so friggin' twisted. I LOVE IT! You took the respect Lelouch never got from his father, Suzaku! Back to topic, others have pointed out that Suzaku is not exactly surprised to hear that Zero is back, indicating that he suspected this would happen eventually. It is Lelouch after all.

Also let me take a moment to WTF at Turn 1's "I will be the one to kill Zero" and the KotR's "Wait Zero's alive? Whoaaaaa." Explain that one, Geass. I guess Gino and Anya just weren't you know LISTENING. Or it's something Suzaku says so often that they've learned to tune him out. Or it was from a later scene. In either case, it didn't make sense so no cookie for Geass. And with that, I'm done with psycho-analyzing the Knight of Seven.

All that's left for fun with characterization tiem is Lelouch. Oh Lelouch, where do I start with you? By no means the CHALLENGE that is Suzaku, but as I have told people following Lelouch's characterization in Turn 2 was like trying to catch the ball in a game of Keep Away. My main issue is Nunnally. Is the distance enough to tamper with the same impulse that caused him to all but abandon his Black Knights to their deaths to find her? Lelouch comes off as mostly rational and calculating, something we've seen time and time again get shot down whenever he can't assure himself Nunnally is safe. It goes without saying that, with everything that's happened, Lelouch is possibly depressed out of his mind. Hence why he so relishes his defeat of the governor-general and his systematic annihilation of the Tower of Babel's forces. Control is Lelouch's lifeline. And where does his chat with Kallen factor into all this? Lelouch wavers on a few sides throughout it, calling her on abandoning him and playing to her emotions while at the same time, teasing her and covering up her ridiculous outfit. Some has mentioned the latter was more of a sensible than a caring thing. You don't go around wearing things like that. How much of their interaction is manipulation to recover his assumed place? Note, how Lelouch never actually tells her whether he geassed her or not; he just says he didn't geass her to feel the way she does about Zero. And I did find something a bit freaky about the "Be proud" dialogue.

Part the two of Lelouch. Now I have my own interpretations of each of these, but because I want unfiltered opinions, I will leave them out. Did Lelouch miss in the cave face-off or did he give up his kill shot? Is there a link to "I lost to my former self... To Suzaku?" What is Lelouch referring to in that quote? What does it mean to his mentality? How does it connect with Turn 1's "Can justice coexist with friendship?" I bring this up because, twisted or not, Lelouch is no less focused on Suzaku than he ever was. The preview for Turn 3 has him talking about needing to overpower both the Emperor and Suzaku. I realize there is the issue of Suzaku being the Emperor's right-hand man more or less. But let's also not forget Lelouch bitching at the Vincient, absolutely appalled that anyone but Suzaku would dare interfere with his plans. That anyone but Suzaku would dare pose a true challenge. There is also the possible inside joke of Lelouch recalling what happened in Episode 2 and being like "Oh hell no! This is NOT going to happen again."

Moving along, the Vincent is a god-modding bastard but I love. Yes, I realize it's not a looker. Nothing could ever be as sexy as Lancelot. But teleportation is hella sweet, I admit it. Mmm, stolen geass technology. And sure, we can cry about Urabe here. He came to the same conclusion as Ougi but with more kamekaze. Thing that was really interesting about this fight was Lelouch's sudden need to convince his knights they weren't just pawns. I know people have made this argument for Lelouch before, but he's never had to do it himself. He obviously realizes just what position he's in and needs to lay things on the line to hold onto what he has. More yay for crushing the governor-general. So cool. Oh and before I forget. ZOMG GUILFORD!! Happy emoticons go here.

I am still excited for Rollo, even more to see Lelouch try to win him over. Also for Gino who is the hottest and yet cutest thing to rock Geass' world. "King of the Elevens!" So much hah. Give me moar, Geass. Moar! If you're wondering why Gino gets less play in this review, it's mostly that Turn 2 kind of temporarily broke my fangirl button. I imagine it will return soon enough.

Questions that make no sense aside from the ones above?

1. How did C.C. override the Emperor's geass? THIS IS A BIG ONE.

2. When did Lelouch geass the Chinese consulate? And while we're on that, when did he have time to make his new outfit?

3. What's with all the waiting?

4. Why are we still following this damn parallel structure?

Comments

[ksuden.livejournal.com]

I have not seen the new season for the moment and I have not really read this post - not seriously - but...

Q : How did C.C. override the Emperor's geass? THIS IS A BIG ONE.
A : The same way she is not affect by Lulu's Geass ? Like she has an immunity against Geass ?
(now, I don't know if she is supposed to be affected, since I have not the episodes. God, BT is so slow)

[fujiappletan.livejournal.com]

"Poor Lelouch. That was so meannnn. ;o;" There is also Suzaku's matter-of-fact/detached manner throughout the scene. Seriously creepy. And well done.

To me it feels like every time Lelouch tries to use the "friend card" he really is trying to USE it. And Suzaku feels it too; that Zero is trying to use his friendship with Lelouch as a way to gain power. I remember Lelouch was not pleased with Euphemia for trying to "recreate" the past, so the idea of him clinging to the idea of his friendship with Suzaku being the exact same as before is just.. no. Least not now. The "I lost to my former self" could be the him that still had the idea that Suzaku would take his side and join him; but now Lelouch is wiser since he knows Suzaku will not take his side hence the "you'll sell your friend out" blahblah. Hm.

I fangirled so HARD over the "Be proud" lines. I just love Kallen's devotion to Zero and now that she knows his identity I'm just dgjdgdfgklkg*___8

2. he totally has like 94859485 spares of his outfit rightttt.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

While I wouldn't say every time, I would say any time they are doing their face-off thing, yeah. I hold nothing against Suzaku for telling him flat-out "That's right." Lelouch was being vicious and got exactly what he expected. However, I do think that up until now, the friendship has been a constant trip-up in Lelouch's mentality. We'll see how he fares now.

I admit I only liked it briefly, but it's growing on me.

2. lol

[moonloop.livejournal.com]

My favorite scene is when Lelouch and Suzaku are present in front of the emperor. You could see the tension and stress that once two friends who have turned into enemies heated up. And how Lelouch still cares for Suzaku as a friend and struggles with Suzaku's choices. Love love love.

I am rather interested in these questions as well so I hope someone can answer them or perhaps the new episode this Saturday.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

... That remains to be seen and is one of my many questions about Lelouch's character. Lelouch is, however, clearly pissed at himself for not taking proper action against Suzaku when he could have. Still, as I said, he is ever as fixated.

[inulovinkit.livejournal.com]

1. CC has 1337hax!Geass skills. Besides, she can mindfuck with people if they touch her, so I'm sure this has something to do with it.

2. Obviously, he did it when they first arrived. He played the "Look! Over there!" game with his knights and then did it...CC made it? Remember, he had two outfits, as revealed in Season 1 when CC dressed up like him that one time.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

1. There is an issue with C.C. being able to remove geasses. That issue being EUPHIE. So I want a better explanation from the series. Plus, they've still yet to connect that kiss.

2. That would have been mildly amusing.

[lulu-quality.livejournal.com]

On Kallen, according to a magazine she was only working at the casino for the mission, but even so, to put herself in that kind of dangerous/degrading position takes GUTS!

Anyway, all spoilers have been incredibly ambiguous or don't really say anything, so no one really knows what will happen from here on out :D

Oh, and Gino is love. Pure unadulterated love. We need to see more of him now. Also, I was confused about the "I will kill Zero scene" too. I'm just going to go with that it was a forward shift in time after episode 2, but put in episode 1 to give it even more momentum. But still, Geass staff, why must you mess with our minds? >_>

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I want to believe that... I do.

[darkfox200.livejournal.com]

1. Probably the Geass immunity? Or maybe people like C.C. can only remove the effects of the Geass if it's something like the Emperor's or Lelouch's (which looks like it's something that needs a target) as opposed to Mao's Geass, which is like... constantly active and doesn't have a specific target (since it'd be pretty hard to remove mind reading from everyone in a 100 metres *can't remember specific range* right?)

2. Geass is special like that [/lame] And obviously, C.C. made the outfit for him during the year he was away (she probably got the measurements for his clothes from the time she spent in his room)

3. The plotline must keep people hanging on till next week, till next week, till next week-

4. Because parallel lines are easier to draw?

DX Answers are made of fail and suck, but I fangirl Guilford and Gino with you.

=darkfox200

[nayami.livejournal.com]

1. Again, I raise the Euphemia issue when ability to remove geasses comes into play.

2. C.C. can make clothes... ?

4. THIS IS ULTIMATE WIN! XD

Yay my meager fangirling for the episode remains intact!

[realms-of-life.livejournal.com]

I swear, if they don't drop the damn parallel structure already I will start to get annoyed. :)

But thanks a lot for your comments. I was kind of refreshing my friends list waiting for them. XD I think Suzaku has grown a lot in this last year. And he reminded me that 1) he was the son of a politician who actually was trying to "teach him something"; 2) he has been living closer to the court for a while. Maybe he got more "civilized" after all, and maybe some old childhood logic finally kicked in. You said that Suzaku is learning to think like Lelouch, and I agree, but I would like to suggest that he is learning to think like his own father too. Both Suzaku and Lelouch hate their fathers, and somehow it wouldn't surprise me if both of them were in the process of becoming the objects of their hatred - this has been more obvious when it comes to Lelouch, but Suzaku might be on the same path. Also, I have this pet theory that Suzaku resents his loss of status as the Kururugi heir almost as badly as Lelouch, but we will need to watch further and see what happens. Next thing we will see Suzaku being cute and proper and all theories will be shot dead. XD

My thoughts on Suzaku's reaction to the Emperor's Geass was "he doesn't care anymore." Or maybe "he doesn't want to care anymore". He knows something BAD will happen to Lelouch, but I doubt he knew anything about the Emperor's powers or his plots when he entered that room. I think Suzaku believes he has the right to make Lelouch suffer, not only because that is the "only way", but because of Euphie. I think it is important that the authors bothered to put Lelouch into a restraining suit, but Suzaku is still wearing his Knight outfit and Euphie's feathers on his chest. I think that the ghost of Euphie is extremely important all through those scenes. Euphie represented Suzaku's (illusory) chance of salvation and now she is gone. Maybe it is too early to tell, but my hutch is that this Suzaku no longer fools himself about his sainthood.

Anyway, yes. Suzaku needed a father figure, didn't he? Their relationship is like a double loss for Lelouch and I'm in love with that. XD "Changing this world from within" notwithstanding, I think that might explain just a little why he behaves so meekly when Charles shows him weapons of mass destruction and whatnot. Suzaku wants to be a good child and he loves, loves to be part of things.

I think the absence of Nunnally is extremely tricky. I agree with you - a strictly IC Lelouch would be more concerned. I keep waiting for more blatant signs of misery. Or maybe we will see that in the future. I guess the sound episodes will probably deal with that, since they tend to be more introspective.

That's a random guess, but I think Lelouch is waiting for the Japanese. Turn 1 told us over and over again how he despised the Japanese for their passivity. And now he has invited them to make justice with their own hands. Area Eleven is getting more and more interesting by the minute.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

D'awww don't say that I'll get all shy and hide. But yes, your thoughts of 'son of the Prime Minister' Suzaku are actually what made me withdraw my initial gut reaction to martyrize Suzaku. It helps that your version is complex and all around fun to prod at. The fathers thing is a good point and yet another of the boys' bizarre commonalities that boils down to having them see the worst parts of themselves in each other. This theory of bitter Kururugi heir is also intriguing and should at least be explored in fanfiction!

I side more with "doesn't want to care anymore" since Suzaku's all detached throughout. Oh I'm pretty damn sure he wanted Lelouch to suffer since Lelouch did destroy virtually everything he believed in. I forgot to add in my post about Lelouch's refusal, even amid everything, to explain what actually happened. Lelouch seeks no forgiveness, and since Suzaku claims the same, they have that between them. Good detail about the ghost of Euphie, especially with him still wearing the Knight emblem.

Oooh I really like that interpretation! Very "Oh you're showing me special stuffs! Love me, Daddy, love me!" And yes, Suzaku always wants to be involved, even though he used to hold himself back.

Yes, his speech was much more sincere than the one from 23. And he is emphasizing that he doesn't just want to use them. He wants to see what they will do on their own as well. Perhaps this ties into what they are saying about next episode.

[sapphynashi.livejournal.com]

Why am I talking about CG instead of preparing for my presentation tomorrow?

Hmm, were the Knights that shocked at Zero's announcement? Too lazy to rewatch the scene right now, but I recall Gino making a casual comment about Zero being flashy or whatever, and Anya saying something about ants, but the only shock was Suzaku's initial head-turn and then he went deadpan serious!face on me. So I think they were informed of Zero's return before the big fancy broadcast.

Ugh, let me see if I can convince my brain to take on Suzaku again.

I am thoroughly intrigued by the idea that his current thought process is taking after Lelouch's. Though, it also gets me wondering whether Lelouch's will change in turn - not drastically, I'd say, but maybe more of a balancing out between the two of them.

...

No, I don't think I am up for more Suzaku analysis tonight after all. Maybe I'll recharge tomorrow.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Gino does ask Suzaku if Zero isn't supposed to be dead. Because Suzaku's response is this very emotionless "Yes."

I thought you would like that one. It was the result of me and a friend trying to figure out what the hell Suzaku was doing just after watching the episode for the first time or so. We were going over all the things that were WRONG about him, and I realize "Omg he's acting like Lelouch!" Reverse would be cool, but I don't know if they're going to take that path.

And I look forward to more analysis. I'm eating this stuff up!

wall o' text (1/2)

[rainbow-cnxn.livejournal.com]

First of all, I love you and your long-ass analysis posts. Long-winded posters unite!

Kallen
Like you, I found it very interesting that Lelouch never actually told her a yes or no answer in response to the geassing question. Kallen is a very straightforward, I’ll-do-what-I-want person. She is having these trust issues with Zero/Lelouch because his power potentially takes away her own capacity to clearly see the world for what it is. She’ll put up with being used, but I don’t think she’ll put up with being kept from the truth. I think that if Lelouch had simply told her, “Yes, I geassed you, but it was only to ask you about the Resistance way back when,” she would have accepted that answer. The fact that he deliberately dodged the question, I feel, would only grate at her sense of mistrust even more.

Suzaku
I agree that it was definitely a disarming shot that he fired, and we know that he is able to pull off such aim because he’s fucking Suzaku. I have to admit, I was one of those who entertained a Suzaku who would try to save Lelouch by killing off “Zero”, but after seeing Turn 2, I’ve pretty much buried it. That theory would suggest a more remorseful Suzaku in the scene with the Emperor, but what we actually got was a cold, cold, angry man. What he did he did out of rage, and any other considerations for their past friendship either didn’t exist or is simply an afterthought. I, too, was shocked to see Suzaku actually demand a promotion for his prize. That’s pretty damn “ore”.

But, I don’t think it was scheming as much as “Screw it, I’m here. Might as well use it.” By the end of 23, he seemed to already have set his current path--he was going to destroy Zero and do whatever he can in order to make his perverted sense of order reality. One may argue that that was heavily colored by his roiling rage, but who’s to say that he’s not the same right now? Knowing that it is Lelouch and knowing what Zero’s objectives are, he was going to catch up to Zero, and he was going to hurt him badly. And that manifested itself as taking Lelouch, utterly defeated, back to his father to grovel and to be shamed. He wasn’t going to simply let Zero die in a blaze of glory. He was going to crush his pride and his mission and strip him of all that he held dear before his very eyes. I don’t even think that while Suzaku was planning to humiliate Zero/Lelouch, the thought of personal advancement was even at the forefront of his thoughts. But possibly during the course of these events, he realized that he could use this to his own advantage and so asked the Emperor for this promotion. HOWEVER. We’re only two episodes in, and we’re still missing a few chunks of time from the cave scene. The chunk of time that I’m most interested in seeing is what happened between Suzaku’s “Zero, I will bring an end to you” and his “Lelouch, I won’t ask for forgiveness.” Lelouch asks him “Is that your answer? Suzaku!” at the end of the flashback in Turn 1, and I can’t help but feel that Lelouch actually asked Suzaku a question in the time that we’re missing. Perhaps it was about what he planned to do with him, in which case, it would shed a lot of light on how Suzaku was thinking at that time.

It is amazing to see just how much he’s changed since, say, episode 22. I think he’s very much aware of what he’s doing. I think that he’s accepted that he’s done awful shit in the past and that he is engaged in doing some awful shit in the present. While in the past, he wouldn’t care that the Japanese hate him because he believes (delusionally) that he was doing this in their own best interests, I think his current goals have shifted somewhat. He doesn’t give a shit about what anyone thinks, and I don’t even think that he cares that people are going to be unhappy, but he’s going to enforce his own order on the world, whether they like it or not. After all, “Kururugi Suzaku is a son of Japan! I'll help the ones I want to help and do the things I want to do! Why should I need a reason to do any of those!?” To that end, his I don’t ascribe to those saying he’s naive for wanting to “change the world from within” because they still think he’s trying to achieve a happy fun world. His goals have changed, IMO.

Re: wall o' text (1/2)

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Ok now that I'm sure this isn't my RP account... I'm going to poke a little at your Suzaku analysis. I think it's a little slanted too heavily to one side, given we haven't seen enough to make that strong of claims. The last paragraph especially. Suzaku didn't demand, he asked, he even apologized for his rudeness to the Emperor. And I argue against Suzaku being cold in that scene, angry no doubt, but again I see it more as thoroughly and wholly detached. You can hear it in his voice when he does his "Yes, your majesty" thing and when he tells Lelouch he won't let him use his geass. There is a very subtle difference between cold and detached but it's worth noting. I don't get the same viciousness in that scene as was present in the the cave; Suzaku is thinking now. And to think, you need to mentally remove yourself from the equation so yes detached. But that thought process is also merged with very very deep anger.

That said, most of your second paragraph, I agree with. There was much vengeance in play and the "Screw it. I'm here, might as well use it" is very much ore!Suzaku style. So it's a new take on the shift between the rage to the plan. Still, I'm not sure Lelouch actually asked Suzaku a question, and I doubt they will go back to the cave scene a third time. I think Lelouch's query is an overall thing. "Is this Suzaku's path?" more or less.

wall o' text (2/2)

[rainbow-cnxn.livejournal.com]

Of course, given all this, I do hold onto the belief that our current incarnation of Suzaku is not himself. The scenes of Suzaku as a child and undamaged attest to this. I still believe that his rage is burning hot within himself because the issues of Euphie’s retribution, his own guilt, and his own goals have yet to be resolved. The idea that he has shown his true colors by acting in this way is laughable. He is angry, he continues to be angry, and he’s going to continue to charge on ahead until someone manages to slow him down and heal him. I have a suspicion that Nunnally will play this role, since despite his rage in 25, he still seems to give a shit for her (nevermind all that I just said about him not giving a shit about anyone). Unless Sunrise throws some restorative!buttsex in there between Suzaku and Gino, at which point I’ll lol and lol and lol. And being the stupid fangirl that I am, I’m still holding out for some sort of GOOD END, in which he’s rehabilitated somewhat and he and Lelouch make up. At that point, they can go die or whatever.

Oh, that idea that Suzaku has found a father figure in the Emperor? I LOVE IT, TOO! Someone needs to write this fic.

Lelouch
Lelouch’s weak point is definitely Nunnally, and I have a feeling that the forces-that-be are going to exploit that to cause Zero to stumble. There are two implications to this. One, Lelouch is going to have to either retrieve her, ensure her safety, or deal with the fact that she’s in danger. Two, given that I think Suzaku would still protect Nunnally, I imagine he would not be happy to have Nunnally used as a bargaining chip. He couldn’t protect Euphie before, and now to fail at protecting Nunnally? I think it would be unacceptable to him.

It also struck me about how it was always “the Emperor and Suzaku” when he was talking about his obstacles. However, I don’t think it was indicative of his awareness that Suzaku is the Emperor’s “right hand man” as much as Lelouch’s own preoccupation at being defeated and punished so ignobly. It was Suzaku that disarmed him and pinned him; it was Suzaku that brought him, bound, before the Emperor; it was Suzaku that wrenched his head up by his hair while he held his eye open for mind-rape. He was humiliated, defeated like he’d never been before, and Suzaku was the reason for his loss of control. He’s pissed at Suzaku and now for a reason greater than coincidentally saying something of great psychological trauma from seven (eight?) years previous. I guess this lets us have a showdown between the two where they both have very personal reasons to be mad, instead of Suzaku raging over Euphie while Lelouch goes “...I’m sorry? IT WAS AN ACCIDENT! D=”

As to the shot that Lelouch took at Suzaku, it really did look like it was meant to kill. I can’t imagine that Lelouch is that much of a marksman, so the idea that he was deliberately aiming for Suzaku’s earpiece is kinda absurd to me. He was going for a headshot, and due to his own bad aim and Suzaku’s speedhax, only the earpiece got destroyed.

Miscellany
I really didn’t care for Rollo before, but his awesome level went waaaaaay up after this episode. Don’t have any theories about how his character is going to progress, but I’m excited to see! :D

Re: wall o' text (2/2)

[jusrecht.livejournal.com]

I think I love you and your analysis on Suzaku. I, personally, am relieved to see him that angry. That makes him seem human and crazy compared to his boku personality. He does look like he knows what he wants to do now and accept what he did in the past.

[jusrecht.livejournal.com]

The thing between Lelouch and Kallen is awesome. God, he used sheer charm to bend her to his will. I think that's the power of kings, more so than GEASS. Lelouch has all grown up now. He doesn't have his old hesitation anymore.

1. C.C. IS the goddess of GEASS. Maybe she and V.V. have that kind of special ability, seeing that they're giving out GEASS freely (which makes me wonder, if she really wants to die that badly, why doesn't she just, you know, give every single person in the world GEASS and see which one of them can kill her or something XD)

2. Did he really GEASS the Chinese consulate? I thought that it was all C.C.'s doing, secretly cooperating with the Chinese Federation and all, and Lelouch just followed the plan through. I read somewhere that the CF is another superpower and I imagine they have their own business with Britannia.

3. I think no one can answer this at this point, except the creators. Although it's possible that they just want the suspense.

4. Because 1) R1 is awesome and they don't want to lose fanbase, despite us being increasingly pissed at this parallelism, or 2) they 'll follow the parallelism up to some point and then does something so utterly radical and unexpected which is going to make us love this series even more XD

[nayami.livejournal.com]

He kind of did. It's hilarious.

2. The guy was clearly geassed, with the shiny red eye thing going on.

4. Parallelism even pisses off Japanese fans so they better watch their step. If they want R2 to stand on its own, which given the many many plot twists I think they should, THEN IT SHOULD STAND ON ITS OWN.

[hylarn.livejournal.com]

1) I'm going to guess that C.C. and her kind can remove the effects of Geass. By the time she had a chance to deal with Euphie it was more advantageous just to let her keep killing the Japanese.

2a) He just geassed everyone around, and Li was lucky enough not to be in his path.

2b) C.C. kept a spare, we know he has them.

3) Sunrise is evil.

4) I'd assume the writers think that parallels are elegant. At any rate, I don't think they can maintain it much longer.

[inulovinkit.livejournal.com]

4. I actually liked the parallels in the first episode of R2 to the first episode. I mean, you're not a Geass fan if you don't love "Lelouch Vi Britannia commands you all to die."

But the second episode...I wasn't so keen on the many parallels. I was actually hoping it would be the Lancelot that showed up in that scene, not the hax! Vincent. :(

[kadekmoment.livejournal.com]

Very interesting to me is that while ten-year-old Suzaku couldn't tell Lelouch not to commit patricide, this one doesn't even feel the need. He just shows him that you don't fuck with your father. Very indicative of the change between old!Suzaku's rationalization and compromising and this new version that deals with it and deals with it right now.

[tenshi789.livejournal.com]

He just shows him that you don't fuck with your father.
Disturbing, incest yaoi disagrees with you.

I'm sorry, I had to say that xD

Young Suzaku is always seen to be impatient and irrational. Then he went to being calm and peaceful and now he's back to the impatient boy's personality at 10 (with much more angst and pms).

btw is that Luluko in your icon?

[tenshi789.livejournal.com]

I was like LOL at Lelouch's hentai role xD

I'm happy with Lelouch's sort of new personality. He's still ruthless, but with more compassion.

Kallen was pretty emotionally screwed up so her running away is slide-able, but I still wished we go to see her do those insane OMFG *LEAP INTO SKY 100M ABOVE AND KICK SUZAKU* sort of thing.

Also let me take a moment to WTF at Turn 1's "I will be the one to kill Zero" and the KotR's "Wait Zero's alive? Whoaaaaa." Explain that one, Geass. That scene might have been set after turn 2. Do you remember Haruhi Suzumiya? xD

1. How did C.C. override the Emperor's geass? THIS IS A BIG ONE. Maybe she predicted something Geass-y might happen to Lelouch, and her first kiss was some sort of protective layer, and when Charles added his Geass, all she had to do is take away hers and off came The emperor's too.

C.C. made his new outfit. Duh xD

What I'm really hating Suzaku about, is not that he sold out Lelouch, or that he's changing his ends justify the means means justify the ways ideology, but that he said he would take care of Nunnally. What the fudge happened to that Suzaku, or are you too busy sucking the Emperor's balls?

Ah Suzaku, I used to love you ;_;

URABE-SAN! >_>

[kadekmoment.livejournal.com]

Considering we have seen neither hide nor hair of Nunnally yet, it's a little too soon to judge.

[ashe.livejournal.com]

2. I thought this made sense because of that one episode (16) in S1 where C.C. dressed up and flew to China as a delegate to the Chinese Federation. I guess that must have worked out, and there must have been some BEHIND THE SCENES communication during that one-year space of time, and they got things and arranged them beforehand.

I guess that Li was just not happy with any plans that were made (judging from his behavior in this episode???) but had no other choice but to go along with it.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I get the behind the scenes communication, but that still doesn't explain when Lelouch actually geassed the consulate since C.C. can't do it. Based on that, though, I question the necessity in geassing the guy in the first place.

[breepants.livejournal.com]

I wish I could answer some more questions, but college beckons my soul and my time.

1. How did C.C. override the Emperor's geass? THIS IS A BIG ONE.
I have no evidence of this whatsoever, but this is my theory. CC is a natural geass user. She has the power, and she can give it to other people. The Emperor is a person who was given geass, but does not have the power to give geass. Natural trumps converted.

2. When did Lelouch geass the Chinese consulate? And while we're on that, when did he have time to make his new outfit?
He may have not needed to geass them. The Chinese have their own agenda, and it may be oppositional to Brittannia. CC totally made him wear it. She thinks his butt looks good in purple.

3. What's with all the waiting?
Because waiting and angst add ratings. Ratings equal money.

I'm still so curious about Villetta. She is obviously pissed to see Zero alive, yet she is still a teacher. WTF?

[ryans-cupcake.livejournal.com]

1. LOVE
2. Lulu was sewing in his sleep.

[chibi-plum.livejournal.com]

I stopped at Suzy because my strongest opinion or consideration about the characters of the second season is with him. I know that there has been a lot of speculation about whether or not he had everything planned. I'm actually hoping that he did. Because he and Lulu are so strongly paralleled (especially in the second season), I want to believe that the writers have given him more of a focus and not just sheer human emotion to drive his way to the top. Of course it’s reasonable of me to think that his real motive is to climb up the ladder in order to prove to Lulu that he will, indeed, change things the way he initially planned to, but I also want to believe that he is doing this as an ally subconsciously. I thought he took Lulu to the Emperor himself in order to protect him. I honestly don’t think he would have let him die and erasing the Geass was of course, the only way to preserve his life, since that power has been Suzaku’s enemy from the start.

Gar… I hate not making sense. I’m not disagreeing, by any means… I just hope that he is being driven by his intelligence as well as the desire to continue protecting his friend. I’ve heard a lot of people say they absolutely hate him and that they think he should just die for being such a traitor, but I cannot subscribe to that. He lost his love and his best friend all in one fell swoop. He’s in the midst of battling with the physical injuries of war and the emotional scars that never heal when you kill another human being. Of course, he is going to go a little bit crazy, but I think he is more composed than it appears. Or, maybe I just want to believe that he plans to work from the other angle to ‘help’ (bad choice of wording) Lulu reach the goal they both share. And if he doesn’t feel this way now, I want to believe this whole ally thing for the final stages of the second season. I’m so sorry if this doesn’t make sense.

And now, I go back and read the rest. XD

The moments between Kallen and Lelouch were amazing. Again, people thought she was dumb for acting the way she did, but I felt sorry for her because she had very different feelings for Lulu than she did for Zero. To see your idol become your infuriating classmate, well DUH… hello shock!. Though, I think she suspected it at times in the first season. She obviously didn’t want to believe it though. But, the Bunny Suit, Lulu and Kallen make for wonderful crack.

AND CC!!! HOMG!!! EPIC~SAUCE WITTY REPERTOIRE BETWEEN HER AND LULU! ♥_♥

Okay – I’ll stop my incoherent rambling. Glad you posted your thoughts it was a refreshing read. :)

[firebird-88.livejournal.com]

"This is where I make the possibly insane claim that Suzaku's present thought processes are frighteningly close to Lelouch's."

LOVE that line. It's so true! I'm being kind of stingy about Suzaku right now (because Lulu is my favorite and I won't lie about that one ^^; ) but seriously, for all his talk about being perfect and honorable, he didn't become interesting to me until he put all that talk DOWN and adopted Lulu's techniques --which are, basically, accepting the dark side of humanity. Revenge, malipulation... All things that humans do, and all things that Suzaku now knows how to do because he would've never won against Zero the other way around.

1. I know next to nothing about V.V., but then again, C.C. is immune to the powers of Geass. I'm not surprised at all that she had the power to erase the Geass. As for the Euphemia problem, C.C. wasn't exactly within near distance during that scene and there wasn't much Lelouch could do to get Euphie to follow him back to wherever C.C. was to get the thing erased.

2. Hahaha, I was wondering about the outfit too. We don't question Lelouch's awesome outfits of win. EVER.

3. No idea.

4. X______________X;; Again, no idea.

Omg, Long. I'msorry

[wishmasterfuuma.livejournal.com]

I was avoiding this post at first because I hate hopping in without a real opinion and I was almost sure I'd make a fool of myself. But I've come by, now~

I think I have four things to say. I think it's four. I'll try to stop myself from rambling.

About the Chinese consulate. I don't think China is ready to support Zero after he destroyed Fukuoka base, just maybe. ...And I think that says it all.

I think CC might just have an innate ability to mess with people's heads. She dug up Suzaku's conscious-block memories; why not dig up Lulu's forced-forgotten memories? I also adore how every time CC kisses Lulu, he's like Wtf?! and then the screen changes.

Okay. So. I don't think they're totally tossing around the word 'friend' like an insult. I think they really do still recognize their friendship, they just also recognize that they're in each other's way. I think, now, their friendship sort of boils down to fond memories and an understanding of where each other came from. In which case, it's a twisted friendship, but what about these boys isn't twisted, by now? They've redefined the word to each other, but only in regards to each other.

I do think Lulu is more emotional about it than Suzaku right now. Because Suzaku does hate Zero, and I think when he leveled his hate against his love for his friend, it came out even or something. Lulu didn't have this scale to weigh and Suzaku is still Suzaku to him (Albeit surprising him all over the place.) But I agree that Lulu's "Selling your friend" statement was meant to hurt. And damn did Suzaku look unhappy in that scene. I paused to stare and my heart broke for him.

I think he sees it as a sort of justice thing. Zero sacrificed Euphie to further his gains, so Suzaku sacrificed Lulu to further his. In that way, it’s not a totally bastard thing to do, just a further complication to the massive web of misunderstanding surrounding why Zero shot Euphemia. That will probably never be cleared because Lulu refuses to take a flamethrower to it. Speak up, child! (This of course means someone needs to hold a gun to Zero in Suzaku’s presence, because as someone else pointed out, that seems to be the trigger for truth.)

Finally, http://zerorevenge.livejournal.com/664888.html?thread=2873912#t2873912
I guess it’s speculation, buuuut...

I like to think Suzaku really did have that planned. I wonder if that wasn’t his aim in joining the military in the first place, and that being knighted by someone as perfect for his plans as Euphemia was just pure luck. So now that she’s gone, he’s right back at it, but a lot less nice about it.

To me, that plan means Suzaku is amazingly clever, a true Japanese warrior, and so awesome.

Something I want to point out, probably because I’m such a heavy X fan... But it took me a good 12 hours to download the episode and I got to see the “I hate Suzaku” everywhere but refused to read why until I saw it, myself. In the hours I waited, I had imagined so many worse possibilities that still wouldn’t have made me hate him. Honestly, he was gentle with Lulu compared to what Fuuma’s groomed me to see. I was expecting a full blown CLAMP crushing of all hopes and dreams... and Suzaku was actually kinda nice in comparison. Oo... (I call this the Stephen King Effect.)

[aoi-rein.livejournal.com]

Whoa! your post is so long but I manage to read the whole thing. I've been disturbed by the recent leaked episode 3 and no mood to read articles but your one sure is good. I like your character analysis. Though some of it's still specualtion but some of your view meet mine one. I like you say about Kallen and Lelouch but I get confused about Suzaku one. But well, still too early to say things but I wanna believe Suzaku, and Rollo too. Suzaku surely know what he's doing but I still think his rage manipulate what he's done. I hope both Suzaku and Rollo can find their respective path soon.
And about that Zero outfit, I wonder about it too. Since when he had made that? *giggles*

[megami-tsuki.livejournal.com]

My thoughts on ep two.

Congradulations Suzaku. You now have the Seme Attitude you were lacking in season one to top Lulu... too bad you hate his fucking guts now XD * Evil Mandark Laugh* Ah sweet irony. Tho I hardly think that little fact will stop fic writers and doujin artits.

I never really liked Suzaku all that much, even in the first season and I'm kinda peeved he sold out his firend for a promotion, but now that he's snaped, he's way more intresting. At least now he's not so much the submissive unquestioning follower he was. I'm intrestied in seeing how this all will play out between the two.

And his whole 180 about his veiws and his 'the ends don't justify the means' surmon chnaged becuase I think he Finally sees where Lulu is coming from. Lulu lost his mother and it was part of the reason he aims for what he does... so now Suzaku lost something presious so now I think he understands Lulu/Zero's 'by any means nessisary' train of thought and adoped it to reach his goals.

So now I see them as being on the same page, just diffrent sides of it.

I predict theres a good 50-50 chance Suzaku will go out like Euphie did at the end of season one and that there's a good chance he'll take Lulu with him...

OMFG I didn't think it was possible for Nina to get any creepier. She was only on screen for a second but... *shiver* And what's up with her hair.


as for your questions...

CC has the power to give people The Geass so I guess she has power over ride them too...It's her super special awesome ability


I don't think Lulu Geassed the Chinese consulate. CC had that talk with them before and Deihart, Sayako and that one Indian chick went to flee to them so I'm guessing they were in on the whole plan.

And CC had been planing to get Lulu back, so I bet she made him the new outfit XD Funny image of CC at a sewing machine comes to mind

[sapphirus.livejournal.com]

About the "I will kill Zero" scene... I'm pretty much of the opinion that Suzaku announced that he KILLED Zero already, not that he would be the one to chase after Zero. After all, there was all the public information that Zero was executed, sooo....bad translation.

Can't say anything about the rest since I'm going slowly through the post.

Edit: 1. How did C.C. override the Emperor's geass?
I think the reason is simply because she's a Geass Pimp whereas Lelouch and the Emperor are probably just customers. It wouldn't do for the originals to be beaten by a by-product.

2. When did Lelouch geass the Chinese consulate? And while we're on that, when did he have time to make his new outfit?
Probably the moment he arrived there as a regular high schooler. Lelouch is sneaky that way. As for the outfit, it probably was provided by C.C. and co. Gotta prepare for the return of their leader and all.