R2 Episode 2 Discussion: Prometheus

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I am late with this. I have some crappy reasons, but I also have my reading a variety of takes on the episode since whoa talk about a mind trip. I'm still not sure what half of the stuff I'm writing here means, and more than ever am hoping for some great input. Also, remember how long the last post was? Multiply by at least 10. Nayami loev the talking points this time around. But I won't lie. This rundown is almost completely character analysis. That being said...

We all remember the rules of the last discussion post, yes? About the no character-bashing. THEY ARE SUPER IN EFFECT HERE. (For the uninformed, bashing counts as "So and so needs to die" or general name-calling/insulting of any kind. The point here is discussion, not ranting.) Play nice people. Oh and because it came up last time, please don't bring later episode spoilers into these discussions. I don't read spoilers for a reason.

Now without further ado:



Shall we follow the episode's lead and begin with Kallen? A lot of character development going on here. I loved her scene with Lelouch, where she's trying to reconcile how she feels about Lelouch and her loyalty to Zero. I don't think I've ever loved their dynamic more. Seeing how upset Lelouch was at the idea that Kallen had lost her faith in him and his teasing her about back-talking to Zero. They are precious. A popular subject of controversy in this scene is Kallen's line about being Lelouch's slave. I don't think that translation and Lelouch's subsequent concerned reaction match up, as pointed out by Celiss at GameFaqs. Her version of the translation is more toward "I want to believe in you... that was the reason I put up with being a slave" (referring to her undercover bunnygirl job -- also implies that she's been working there waiting for Lelouch for some time). I am also more willing to side with this since it's more consistent with Kallen's characterization, and I think Lelouch would have a sharper reaction otherwise, considering how he corrected Urabe for saying the Black Knights were merely Zero's pawns. More on that later.

On the duality, I'm intrigued. Everyone in Geass seems to thrive on disassociation, even when it falls apart in front of their very eyes, but Kallen's is quite possibly the most special of them all. And Lelouch plays up to it, even going so far as to use "watashi" when he asks about her trust, as noted by another fan. Is it manipulation? Let's hold off on that until we get to the Lelouch segment of this write-up. I'm curious how long Kallen's going to be able to keep up this duality about her leader. Her "I want to" in response to Lelouch's questioning her trust was so beautiful. And yes, the reaction to the not!flirting was ADORABLE. Why, Lelouch, are you trying to have hormones, you sexy devil you? More love to Kallen ready to sacrifice for Lelouch at the end there. I suppose I can forgive her for ditching Lelouch in the cave. Kallen obviously had some shaky feelings to deal with, and there was a gun in her face. I still mrrr a little since bastard or not, Lelouch is her fellow classmate and her teammate, who may I add, did save her from Suzaku in 24. But yeah, people get freaked and the situation was just a little... awkward. I'll let it sliiiide. She won me back when she did the whole bunnygirl thing to save Lelouch's ass. Also note, most honest conversations in Geass happen when a weapon (be it gun or mech) is pointed in your face.

Speaking of gun pointed in face, it's Suzaku's turn. Now, I will be honest. I was somewhat lost here so any take is appreciated. What I will present is a compilation of various opinions (sapphira_angel, kadekmoment, realms_of_life and sephyelysian). First of all, if nobody expected Suzaku to be vicious, they're kind of missing out on the whole male grieving process. Guys tend to express pain in RAGE. So there's that. Not to mention that Suzaku is so used to internalizing everything in his boku identity, whereas his ore persona is the exact opposite. Suzaku is furious with himself for being able to stop Euphie's death or Lelouch's "corruption" so yes, all of that hatred and anger gets shifted onto Lelouch.

The question that comes into play is what happened to that rage between the roaring of Lelouch's name and the disarming shot. Some suggest Geass threw off Suzaku's aim, further fueling his need to ditch the bomb, but each time Geass has come into play, the series has given it special attention, especially with Suzaku. For this reason, I'm inclined to believe that even though we don't get a clear shot of Suzaku's eyes during the shot, he was acting of his own volition. Some Suzaku fans even prefer this interpretation because the whole appeal of ore!Suzaku is that he takes action and doesn't waffle. And there was clearly no waffling going on here! Suzaku wanted to take Lelouch in. Tackling that thought process is where things get tricky. I'm right now denouncing the rosy happy fangirl belief that Suzaku allowed the Emperor to geass Lelouch to effectively "kill" Zero but spare Lelouch. Sorry gals. That assumes Suzaku long knew about the Emperor's geass and plotted this all out and yeah, while he's picked up some scheming abilities, that's really reaching. But there is still much to ponder about why Suzaku would show little reaction to the very obvious fact that the Emperor has a geass and is going to essentially mind-rape their captive, friendship aside. Adding to that is the trade for power. This is the first time we've seen Suzaku make such a move, as his advancement has, up until now, been through Zero's influence. Ironically. I admit I wince a little at the "scheming" that seems present here because I have never thought of Suzaku as a schemer. But then again, this is Suzaku, the phoenix who destroys himself continuously only to be born anew. Perhaps the Suzaku we have now is neither and both ore and boku, as well as something else entirely. Not only that but Suzaku has learned.

This is where I make the possibly insane claim that Suzaku's present thought processes are frighteningly close to Lelouch's. We know that Suzaku is willing to use a situation to get closer to what he's after. Hmm, where have we heard of that before? (Lelouch's plan to use Euphemia's trust to destroy the SAZ and her reputation and then later using her death to advance his cause.) We know he is willing to wait. Pardon me while I BOGGLE at the notion of reckless Suzaku WAITING. Ok, done now. (We've seen in episode 24 that Lelouch is damn good at biding his time, setting up all his geass measures and bombing plans in advance.) And theoretically we see Suzaku now seems to buy into the notion that only power can fight power. Still set on "changing the world from within." More nodding to my belief that this Suzaku is a recreation of all he previous was. But gee, that line of thought is not familiar at all either. "The war will end when someone wins" anyone? Also, as others have pointed out, Suzaku seems to be leaning more toward "the ends justify the means" rather than his usual "the means justify the ends." But with only two episodes and hardly a consistent scene to work with, all of this is open to change.

So why the coincidental shift? I actually had something on this, something about a loss of identity driven by the loss of constants connected with his past and present. But I'm less confident in my analysis after reading some others. Because mine lets Suzaku off the hook, says he's confused and not entirely responsible, and I don't think that's entirely fair to his character. Suzaku may know damn well what he's doing and what he's striving for, and with only choppy scenes to work with, I think making him the poor lost soul is premature. "I have no regrets because we're friends" speaks clearly to that.

This doesn't mean I don't think Suzaku isn't lost in someway. The look in his eyes when he tells Lelouch that yes he is selling him out is a dead give-away, as others have said. I want to point out, though, that when Lelouch asks his question about "selling out your friend," he has no delusions or idealistic beliefs about the state of their relationship. He is angry and just wants to hurt. It's clear that both toss around "friend" as more of a threat or an insult than its previous meaning, a perversion of the word. But yes, Lelouch had no doubt what the answer would be so any whimperings over it are misplaced at best. I grow tired of "Poor Lelouch. That was so meannnn. ;o;" There is also Suzaku's matter-of-fact/detached manner throughout the scene. Seriously creepy. And well done.

But the Suzaku we later see post-flashback is another shift. Though considerably more serious than boku!Suzaku, we also see him react to things such as the Emperor telling him about his weapon. I'm going to take a quick tangent and say I want to know why talking about killing God is all kosher now. Either Suzaku is a damn good actor or he knows that questioning the Emperor is NOT A GOOD IDEA. I also like someone's suggestion that Suzaku has found another father figure. That's so friggin' twisted. I LOVE IT! You took the respect Lelouch never got from his father, Suzaku! Back to topic, others have pointed out that Suzaku is not exactly surprised to hear that Zero is back, indicating that he suspected this would happen eventually. It is Lelouch after all.

Also let me take a moment to WTF at Turn 1's "I will be the one to kill Zero" and the KotR's "Wait Zero's alive? Whoaaaaa." Explain that one, Geass. I guess Gino and Anya just weren't you know LISTENING. Or it's something Suzaku says so often that they've learned to tune him out. Or it was from a later scene. In either case, it didn't make sense so no cookie for Geass. And with that, I'm done with psycho-analyzing the Knight of Seven.

All that's left for fun with characterization tiem is Lelouch. Oh Lelouch, where do I start with you? By no means the CHALLENGE that is Suzaku, but as I have told people following Lelouch's characterization in Turn 2 was like trying to catch the ball in a game of Keep Away. My main issue is Nunnally. Is the distance enough to tamper with the same impulse that caused him to all but abandon his Black Knights to their deaths to find her? Lelouch comes off as mostly rational and calculating, something we've seen time and time again get shot down whenever he can't assure himself Nunnally is safe. It goes without saying that, with everything that's happened, Lelouch is possibly depressed out of his mind. Hence why he so relishes his defeat of the governor-general and his systematic annihilation of the Tower of Babel's forces. Control is Lelouch's lifeline. And where does his chat with Kallen factor into all this? Lelouch wavers on a few sides throughout it, calling her on abandoning him and playing to her emotions while at the same time, teasing her and covering up her ridiculous outfit. Some has mentioned the latter was more of a sensible than a caring thing. You don't go around wearing things like that. How much of their interaction is manipulation to recover his assumed place? Note, how Lelouch never actually tells her whether he geassed her or not; he just says he didn't geass her to feel the way she does about Zero. And I did find something a bit freaky about the "Be proud" dialogue.

Part the two of Lelouch. Now I have my own interpretations of each of these, but because I want unfiltered opinions, I will leave them out. Did Lelouch miss in the cave face-off or did he give up his kill shot? Is there a link to "I lost to my former self... To Suzaku?" What is Lelouch referring to in that quote? What does it mean to his mentality? How does it connect with Turn 1's "Can justice coexist with friendship?" I bring this up because, twisted or not, Lelouch is no less focused on Suzaku than he ever was. The preview for Turn 3 has him talking about needing to overpower both the Emperor and Suzaku. I realize there is the issue of Suzaku being the Emperor's right-hand man more or less. But let's also not forget Lelouch bitching at the Vincient, absolutely appalled that anyone but Suzaku would dare interfere with his plans. That anyone but Suzaku would dare pose a true challenge. There is also the possible inside joke of Lelouch recalling what happened in Episode 2 and being like "Oh hell no! This is NOT going to happen again."

Moving along, the Vincent is a god-modding bastard but I love. Yes, I realize it's not a looker. Nothing could ever be as sexy as Lancelot. But teleportation is hella sweet, I admit it. Mmm, stolen geass technology. And sure, we can cry about Urabe here. He came to the same conclusion as Ougi but with more kamekaze. Thing that was really interesting about this fight was Lelouch's sudden need to convince his knights they weren't just pawns. I know people have made this argument for Lelouch before, but he's never had to do it himself. He obviously realizes just what position he's in and needs to lay things on the line to hold onto what he has. More yay for crushing the governor-general. So cool. Oh and before I forget. ZOMG GUILFORD!! Happy emoticons go here.

I am still excited for Rollo, even more to see Lelouch try to win him over. Also for Gino who is the hottest and yet cutest thing to rock Geass' world. "King of the Elevens!" So much hah. Give me moar, Geass. Moar! If you're wondering why Gino gets less play in this review, it's mostly that Turn 2 kind of temporarily broke my fangirl button. I imagine it will return soon enough.

Questions that make no sense aside from the ones above?

1. How did C.C. override the Emperor's geass? THIS IS A BIG ONE.

2. When did Lelouch geass the Chinese consulate? And while we're on that, when did he have time to make his new outfit?

3. What's with all the waiting?

4. Why are we still following this damn parallel structure?

Comments

[firebird-88.livejournal.com]

"This is where I make the possibly insane claim that Suzaku's present thought processes are frighteningly close to Lelouch's."

LOVE that line. It's so true! I'm being kind of stingy about Suzaku right now (because Lulu is my favorite and I won't lie about that one ^^; ) but seriously, for all his talk about being perfect and honorable, he didn't become interesting to me until he put all that talk DOWN and adopted Lulu's techniques --which are, basically, accepting the dark side of humanity. Revenge, malipulation... All things that humans do, and all things that Suzaku now knows how to do because he would've never won against Zero the other way around.

1. I know next to nothing about V.V., but then again, C.C. is immune to the powers of Geass. I'm not surprised at all that she had the power to erase the Geass. As for the Euphemia problem, C.C. wasn't exactly within near distance during that scene and there wasn't much Lelouch could do to get Euphie to follow him back to wherever C.C. was to get the thing erased.

2. Hahaha, I was wondering about the outfit too. We don't question Lelouch's awesome outfits of win. EVER.

3. No idea.

4. X______________X;; Again, no idea.