Question about reactions to ep 6

[sumeragiskank.livejournal.com]

I seriously loved this episode and all of the great Lloyd and Suzaku moments in it. But I'm kinda scratching my head after reading some reactions to it that make no sense to me. I've not been very involved in Geass fandom and am rather shocked at some of the prevailing attitudes ^^;;;



I'm rather confused as to why everyone thinks Nunally has been brainwashed by Suzaku. After all, he's not the one who actually uses an evil brainwashing power to murder people. That's Lelouch. He's never used someone important to him as a political tool. Again, that's Lelouch. And if you want to argue that he used Lelouch, I think he had more than enough right to do so after Lelouch murdered Euphie and completely fucked over his country and plans for peace.

I'm glad to see Nunally taking some initiative and for them to develop her character more. I also am eagerly awaiting to see her reaction to learning Lelouch is Zero. I was glad she told him he was wrong. Because he is. And I do not think that, even as much as she loves her brother, she is going to take very kindly to the knowledge that he has been murdering people left and right and committing all sorts of atrocities all in her name. She'll likely be horrified and so far, no Britannian telling her has been a mercy. Lelouch has made this bed for himself and he seems awfully upset that now he has to lie in it. Poor baby. This is me feeling completely not sorry for him.

I like Lelouch as a character, but I hold no illusions that he's a nice person in the least. He puts selfish goals ahead of the plight of an entire nation of downtrodden people, nevermind lying to, manipulating, and using people who honestly care for him. Along with murdering family members and innocent people in cold blood and all of that. I don't think the ends ever justify the means, and while he had good intentions at some point - is he now going to fuck over Nunally for his own goals and ego or will he let her lead her own life - I think Lelouch's pretty far along on his trip to hell. I jiust don't understand why everything Suzaku does wrong is picked apart and held against him while Lelouch's various crimes, which are a much much much much longer list, are immediately forgiven. I understand that he's the main character and all, but I just can't give him that leeway and have to hold him to the same standards as every other character.

Comments

[ikui.livejournal.com]

Well to start off, being new to the fandom (New to the fandom not the anime), I was honestly shocked as some of the reactions of others as well. Many dismissed Suzaku on the premises that Lelouche was more morally correct or whatever one would like to call it. It was a battle of the characters, not an individual assessment

Anyway, as a referral to your post, I do agree with the sentiment that Nunally is not brainwashed. As shown in the episode herself, she strongly believes in creating a protectorate for Japan (whether one believes it is right or not). The way she reached out to Zero and spoke her mind shows that belief. By doing this, I really think the creators have shown the fact that Nunally has thought this whole issue over before carelessly taking the position. I mean Nunally even has thought over the fact that her image would be used as propaganda for sympathy.

Of course she may have been influenced by Suzaku or the death of Euphie to take the position as governor but it is only human for Nunally to take in these considerations. I highly doubt that these would dictate her whole reason on taking up the position. As a simple example if a teacher asked a student to be a captain of a debate team, it does not mean they were brainwashed by the teacher into that position, it means that the position is open to them and ultimately the person asked decides whether to accept or not. Besides, in my mind I seriously cannot see Suzaku doing something like sitting Nunally down and trying to force her to be the governess.

On the matter of Lelouche, I completely agree with some of the posts above me stating that since we get a first hand view on his opinions, our natual bias as viewers is to follow his reasoning. Like in the case of everyone accusing Suzaku of playing dirty by "using" Nunally. I mean where did the first opinion stating that come from? Directly from Lelouche in the episode preview. It was the first comment that everyone heard on the issue of Nunally so therefore it was impressionable.

As for Lelouche's intentions, yes they are selfish but I don't think that necessarily makes them inherently wrong or anything. He is fighting for what is important to him, even if in my opinion he is going the wrong way about doing it. Its very easy to write Lelouche off as hurting the greater good but honestly, when he is faced with fighting for his sister or a faceless population he does not know, it is easy to see why he is fighting for Nunally (Whether she wants it or not). I mean, anyone faced with a decision between their beloved one or a couple of strangers would pick the one they loved.

And I really do think you are getting ahead of yourself when you say that Lelouche is going to fuck over Nunally. I do believe that we are seeing a degradation of Lelouche's humanity and that he is caring less for strangers, but I wouldn't go quite that far to make such a massive conclusion yet. I mean Nunally is literally Lelouche's heart and to destroy her at this point would be destroying himself so the idea that he would harm Nunally in any way is kind of beyond me.

Quick note on the crimes thing, just because one has done less than the other doesn't make them any better or worse of a person necessarily so I am still not at the point where I am going to say Suzaku is better than Lelouch in terms of what they are doing.

And lastly, why is Lelouche biased towards? Obviously because he is the protaganist of the series, relating to the whole thing that the viewers get to see his opinion before anyone else (most of the time). Its a lot easier for viewers to go with what he says, I mean the bias is that a protaganist must always be right, otherwise he wouldn't be the protaganist. Plus Lelouche is supposed to be the kind of charming character with the big voice that convinces everyone, and he is portrayed like that very well in the series! Sometimes I find myself agreeing with Lelouche before even thinking about what he is truly saying.

lol long post is long but I do agree and disagree with some of the points that you make. But really? I do wish people would cut Suzaku some slack if their only reasoning is, "He is worse than Lelouche and Lelouche is better! Nananananaaaah." >_>;

[x-drear-x.livejournal.com]

And lastly, why is Lelouche biased towards? Obviously because he is the protaganist of the series, relating to the whole thing that the viewers get to see his opinion before anyone else (most of the time). Its a lot easier for viewers to go with what he says, I mean the bias is that a protaganist must always be right, otherwise he wouldn't be the protaganist. Plus Lelouche is supposed to be the kind of charming character with the big voice that convinces everyone, and he is portrayed like that very well in the series! Sometimes I find myself agreeing with Lelouche before even thinking about what he is truly saying.

I think you just hit the nail on the head there. Nice post.