R2 Episode 1 Discussion: Of Predators and Prey

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Huzzah. R2's out. Subs are out and even a discussion post is out. Though, I have always felt the best way to pump up a discussion post is to give it a head start. If I am double-posting, mods may beat me and delete. (Sorry, I see this more of a break-down/analysis than a basic reaction post.) I can't say I won't sob a little. Oh and warning LONG POST IS LONG. Aka I only recommend if you want ACTUAL discussion.



I could go on about the OP like everyone else but really all I'm interested in is Gino dragging off Suzaku for molestings, who the hell some of those characters are in the Britannia/Black Knights split, Lelouch switching from Geass eye to normal (please say sexy contacts are involved), Arthur making an OP go arthur and my never-ending whinery that if we're going to get horse-riding Lelouch in the OPs, I want to see horse-riding Lelouch in an actual episode. Oh and the transition of Lelouch doing his eye/hand pose to Zero is hot.

Moving onto to actual content, we are all disturbed by happy Lelouch yes? But what I'm more disturbed about is that Villetta thought she could jump out of a window and LAND ON LELOUCH and not you know BREAK EVERY BONE IN HIS FEEBLE BODY. So lucky it was Rivalz. Also, Lelouch's smoke trap is pink. Yeah. Some people hate the way Lelouch bitches in this episode; I love it, it shows the little bastard can never be content with a calm life. The Britannian royal blood craves conflict. And that is just the type of thing Rollo spends the entire episode trying to counter, with his shying Lelouch away from things that might take him back to his old ways. Does Rollo do this out of actual concern or because he is just another piece in the trap laid for Lelouch? One of my favorite scenes is the two in the elevator, where Lelouch is tapping his fingers anxiously on the side. Yes, his fingers are beautiful (he has a pianist's hands through and through), but I just love the idea that Lelouch *knows* something is wrong, and it drives him mad that he can't figure out what it is. Adding to this: chess. He's not playing it for money but "as a way to kill time." Because as we all know by now, chess is Lelouch's comfort. Almost his security blanket in a way. It's very d'aww. Lulu loev chess. The director has even referred to Lelouch twirling around his chess piece when he is nervous, as chess gives him a sense of control. I like these little idiosyncrasies.

I guess here's where I'm supposed to go into the brainwashing and bad Charles bad, but I want some more ground before I tackle that one. Still sure seems like the Emperor and the bunch (aka the Knights who say Bri) had no fear that those soldiers were actually going to kill Lelouch. I wonder if the Emperor even thought he was actually going to get C.C. or whether he just wants to play with his most interesting son some more. As Suzaku so aptly puts it, he won't let anyone else have Zero. This kill is his. I have loads of theories on this assertion, but as that whole brainwashing + more power for the Suzaku thing is kind of mushy in my head, I will share them once I have a better standing on our knight version 2 or rather knight version 1 rebooted. Still, entire end scene with knights was super hot. And creepy.

Back to people who aren't Britannia, so who told the remaining Black Knights about Zero? Kallen? C.C.? Epic bowing down knightmares in purple flames was epic but GZUH. Also, seeing as that whole mission was staged by C.C., either she caught onto the Emperor's plan or she's playing into it. The whole SAVE ZERO vs. KILL LELOUCH subplot here amused me. Onto that, did Kallen see what went down at the very end of the cave madness?

Also, here I shall fangirl. Sorry. Suzaku's declaration that he has no regrets about shooting Lelouch since he's his friend and Lelouch's response: "Is that your choice?" Now this sits odd with me because it's very apparent Suzaku is about to kill Lelouch. And Lelouch's automatic reaction to VERY PRESENT NEAR DEATH is "omg omg don't want to die have to do things have to protect nunnally dammit all to hell." We've seen this several times. Lelouch, for all his bravado and conviction, fears death without purpose. Yet, here he is all but *challenging* Suzaku to shoot him. And not afraid. In 25, Lelouch acted much the same but it's obvious that he truly believe Suzaku wouldn't fire on him. The entire time, he thought he could talk him down. There was no reason for fear. That scene, oh the reason was very very real indeed. So why that reaction? Is there more to that scene? Is someone else there? Is there a reason Lelouch cannot snarl and fight as he always does? Or does he just still not believe he's going to get shot? Let's not forget Lelouch's series of questions to the baron at the end: "Can friendship coexist with justice?" Special as always.

Then we have the hands. Oh we've seen clutching hands in Geass many a time. The first episode started out with as much. We get it again on the rooftop during Arthur's antics. It returns in R2's OP in many incarnations: Lelouch reaching for Nunnally, C.C. and Lelouch near the end. There's Rollo trying to catch Lelouch from falling. Now why I bring this up is: Lelouch flashes back to it. Lelouch's mind is very selective when he flashes back to things. And there is usually an importance to the visuals. What are we missing here? We can also toss in Rollo's locket for wtfery. Is it connected to Nunnally? Can we say the Emperor has her? The ED speaks to V.V.'s connection with the Emperor. The ED also speaks to Rollo's duality. I think it would be cool if V.V. were Rollo, but now I'm kinda interested in a male Meer hybrid. One who is used for a role, possibly changes sides, but, and here's why I used hybrid, is much more than meets the eye. There is a connection between Rollo and the Geass. While Lost Colors probably isn't the best reference, that he bests a Geass within it is still worth considering.

I guess we can also touch upon Lelouch disliking Zero and all that encompasses. Hee. Ok, that's done. We all know the new governor-general is a dead man so who cares. Oh I forgot, Lelouch getting face-planted into the chess board = FRIGGIN' AWESOME. For some reason, that scene reminded me of Realm's AU fic where Lelouch goes a-chess-playin' and bites off more than he can chew. Yeah yeah white queen is C.C. Little argument there. Speaking of C.C., she practically stole the show near the end. I loved when she freaked out the soldiers after getting up from being shot. And her whole reference to the "accomplices" thing. She wants so much for Lelouch to remember that much. Hmm, is C.C. after the Emperor as well since he's after her? Also, Lelouch caught her! The knightmare holding out its hand to Lelouch was cheesy but still great. As was her almost gentle approach at bringing him back -- he had to make the final decision before she could do anything. He had to want his fate of conflict back. Hence, why the kiss only comes after his call for power.

Ah, the kiss. I do not hold true that it seals memories completely. If brain-washing was afoot, there is some shakiness there. Perhaps it seals the Geass? But wait Lelouch still had the Geass in his confrontation with Suzaku AFTER the kiss. Does it seal memories of the contract? Possibly more likely. I imagine it would be hard to summon a power if you don't know you have it. But again, isn't the Geass supposed to be permanent now? It appears to be so in the next episode, and Lelouch retained it throughout the end of this one, despite his orders being fulfilled. (Note, having the soldiers shoot each other this time was nifty.) Continuity error or more than meets the eye? This issue is probably my only real one with the episode, and the one I want resolved most quickly. I dislike anything that undermines Euphie's sacrifice. On-again off-again Geass is cheating.

Purple flames? LOL. Where the hell do you get purple flames? And Zero must be a manifestation of all Lelouch's eccentricities because those poses what the hell. Do you even look at yourself, Lelouch? Seriously? The music was EPIC and cheesetastic but you can't admit it wasn't fun. For all of its crack and WTF, Geass is always fun.

Nah, I'm not doing the ED. I am feverish, and people have discussed it to hell. We know the basics. Wings? No wings? Fake wings? Two wings? Cornelia? Nunnally? SUZAKU IS HOT. and lelouch is going to put his eye out with that thing.

Topics best left undiscussed: Ashford (we love you but no), Chinese sector (... why?), god Britannia is messed up in the head sometimes and... Kaguya.

All in all, we all know this was mostly entertaining fluff. Real season starts with episode two. But hey Geass is Geass so like I've been telling people: OMG OMG GEASS IS BACK YAY GEASS I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE HELL I JUST WATCHED UM YAY GEASS. My biggest want for next episode is to see how Lelouch reacts to Rollo now. And a preview from the original streaming suggests we might learn a bit more about Suzaku and the Emperor and their... dealings. Wait wait we also have Jeremiah in the OP and mysterious librarian next to Guilford to round up the discussion.


End note: I love all. You bash and I spam you with cat macros. That said, have at it, peoples.

Comments

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Mmm. I'm actually watching the episode now to rethink that. Your interpretation is sounding much more likely.

[realms-of-life.livejournal.com]

In fact, I think one of the Baron's lines suggests there is wide scale brainwashing going on in a semi-enclosed area (maybe Ashford?). He says something about having to leave the "outer parts of the settlement". I do believe everybody in Ashford - including Villetta - have been brainwashed, otherwise it would be hard to introduce Rollo as if Nunnally had never existed. If something like that happened, I believe it had to be Charles' doing. Only the Emperor would be that megalomaniac and conduce such an experiment under the local administration's nose. And if that is the case, then either C.C. or Lelouch or both are extremely important indeed as far as Charles is concerned.

Of course, that might be extremely far fetched, but that was my initial hutch. :)

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Oh I think Lelouch has always been important to Charles. In terrible terrible ways.

Good point about the Baron.

[realms-of-life.livejournal.com]

You know, there is a fascinating discussion on Raito X Lelouch on this comm and you totally should look it up. :) But I firmly agree with a point made there that Raito and Lelouch are neither more or less human than the other. They simply stem from different literary archetypes (Dostoevsky intellectual with sociopathic overtones X Tragic romantic lead with Shakespearean overtones). Since they are based on different archetypes, they have very different issues and themes going on notwithstanding the obvious parallels. As leads, they tell different stories about themselves and that is really awesome, imo. :)

[rainbow-cnxn.livejournal.com]

After watching the memory bit with Suzaku, I had assumed that Lelouch had already been shot in a non-vital area. He sounded tired and in pain. (As a lesser detail, if you look carefully, Suzaku's gun is pointed off-center, towards Lelouch's right shoulder, which is an ideal place to shoot Lelouch in order to keep him from using his gun.) If Suzaku ended up capturing Lelouch, a few details (IMHO) would fall into place.

As I've mentioned before in a previous thread, I got from someone on the AnimeSuki boards that Suzaku got his Knight of Seven position as a result of bringing Lelouch/Zero before the Emperor. Given that the Emperor has geass, it would make sense that he could do something WTF to Lelouch. And given that the Emperor knows who Zero is, he can marshal the powers of Britannia to use Lelouch to ensnare C.C. If he believes that an amnesic Lelouch is harmless, then he can still use him much like he did in this episode.

[realms-of-life.livejournal.com]

You know, it sounded like an extremely reckless plan to me, so I kept thinking there was something else behind it. Like, you capture the leader of the Black Rebellion, don't kill him and let him walk freely for a whole year so he can serve as a bait... Then, as you pointed, Charles shows no concern about Lelouch AND C.C. getting shot, killed or whatever (his men didn't know C.C. was immortal).

I think that, if Charles does walk his talk (we are not sure about that either), he was probably playing with Lelouch's survival skills and power more than anything else. Strangely enough, I still can't shake the impression that Charles is a red herring. I guess it is the Clamp reader in me. :)

Did you get a preview of Turn 2? The only one I got was the one at the end of Turn 1.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I've seen clips floating about.

As for the red herring, I still say there may be something to be said about Charles and C.C. more or less fighting over Lelouch in this episode. They are accomplices yes. Does she want him back because she cares about him or does she want her contract? I also feel that contract may in fact be linked to Charles, seeing as he is also a Geass user.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Oh I've heard the Emperor/Suzaku stuff and what's on the Lancelot box and all that. I just don't like bringing that into my non-personal discussions without more to back it up. Though the clip from the streaming does show Suzaku kneeling before the Emperor. I'm still unsure now whether Suzaku actually shot Lelouch. There might have been leverage to keep Lelouch from going anywhere, and Suzaku has managed to keep Lelouch in place before. I'm also not so sure Lelouch followed through with trying to fire. He was the more reluctant of the two throughout. Personally, I'm leaning more toward their being interrupted. Then things fell into place. Nunnally, after all, is damn good leverage. Now, as for Suzaku, himself, using said leverage, I don't want to make any guesses. I have not seen enough of R2!Suzaku to properly gauge his character. Also, while Charles may have Geass, we don't especially know what it is. And I doubt this is the show to give everyone an identical power.

Again, yes he used Lelouch, but it seems he didn't care that he lost... Or at least for the moment.

Long response is looooong

[rainbow-cnxn.livejournal.com]

if we're going to get horse-riding Lelouch in the OPs, I want to see horse-rising Lelouch in an actual episode.
AGREED.

Oh I forgot, Lelouch getting face-planted into the chess board = FRIGGIN' AWESOME.
AGREED. Definitely one of the best scenes in the episode. Chess pieces are pointy and painful. D=

You know, I read the spoiler threads, so nothing in the episode itself particularly surprised me. In fact, the thing that got the biggest WTF from me was this pic:

HOLY CRAP, HE'S SMILING. WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU SAW SUZAKU SMILE?!?!

Anyways, I agree with almost everything you said. A few things that struck me:

The "I won't ask for forgiveness."/"Is that your answer?" bit didn't strike me as Lelouch on the verge of getting shot to death by Suzaku. I noted in a previous comment that I thought that Lelouch had already been incapacitated when this exchange happens, so I read what they said as referring to something else that is reprehensible to Lelouch. Dying without purpose certainly falls within that category, but I think being dragged back to Britannia to be presented before the Emperor as the loser of the war would, too. Although Lelouch is seeking to meet the Emperor, he wants to do so on his own terms. And he knows that the secret of his geass is out, and his enemy can most likely take steps to counter it, rendering his greatest weapon unusable. So yeah, I think what happened in the cave scene was that Suzaku wounded Lelouch and then informed him that he was going to take him back to the Emperor. (No idea how Kallen fits into this in the cave, though.)

In light of Suzaku and the Emperor both knowing that Lelouch was Zero, I found the "I will kill Zero" declaration rather interesting. It may just be me, but I found it interesting that he didn't say "I will kill Lelouch." Perhaps somewhere deep in his emo, emo heart, Suzaku wants to save his friend Lelouch by killing off the presence of Zero within him. (If so, he would approve of stuff like giving Lelouch amnesia. ) This would tie in nicely with what he says at the end of episode 25, "Your existence is a mistake! You are someone that doesn't belong in this world!" Perhaps it's my inner Suzaku fangirl speaking here (I honestly believe that he will be "saved" eventually), but I think that the message will come true for Zero but not for Lelouch.

I guess this entire thing is shaped by how I think the series will conclude, which is pretty much: Japan is freed, Lelouch kills the Emperor, and Suzaku gets rid of Lelouch's geass by gouging out his left eye or something. (Come on, it's CLAMP character designs. And admit it--you want to see Lelouch with an eyepatch. =P) Overall, a GOOD (but bloody) END that leaves our main characters (except Nunnally) all pretty much damaged.

[piccu.livejournal.com]

Rollo is the most moe guy in Code Geass.

[realms-of-life.livejournal.com]

I love them too, so ramble on.

The elevator scene was also one of my favorite scenes. I can't believe people bitched about Lelouch bitching. His background narration delighted me to no end. So many character points! I love how he contradicts himself to the point of being resentful against Zero, and then becoming Zero without blinking an eye. There are so many nice interpretations to that, like he is envious of Zero's popularity or will to change the world, or is intrinsically biased against any leader who is not himself, or any leader who fails, or is genuinely disgusted by the Eleven's need of a savior ("Unhappy the land that is in need of heroes."). Lelouch trying to restrain his latent idealism with harsh skepticism on the verge of depression made me very, very cheerful.

His meeting with C.C. was also one of my favorite moments. I love the point you made about Lelouch remembering the contract being important to her.

I'm also fascinated by the whole hands theme going on. And I can't wait for Lelouch's next meeting with Rollo. And Suzaku. We need more Suzaku in our lives. :)

I got used to the idea of Lelouch being unable to dress properly and move like a uncoordinated Nijinski. What still impresses me is how he manages to not hit anybody by accident waving his arms like that.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Interesting idea on that ending there. Fans do loev the eye-gouging, and I've always found something intriguing about the notion of Suzaku thinking he can destroy Zero by destroying the Geass. Not sure how likely it is to go down though.

I didn't think about how the memories could tie into Suzaku's want to fix his "mistake." I still think that standing idly by as Lelouch gets brain-washed is a bit hard for me to swallow. But I also know how Geass characters thrive on disassociation. Perhaps it is just easier for Suzaku to say "Zero" since then he doesn't have to specifically remember this was once his friend. His connecting Lelouch with Zero caused some hang-ups (not as bad as Lelouch's but there were still there a bit) when he last tried to take out Zero. Maybe Suzaku truly believes the Lelouch he knows is dead at this point, as of killing Euphie. Before there was still a chance that he might have been deterred. Suzaku may feel he has to kill him to put an end to the Lelouch he had a hand in creating when he didn't tell him about the patricide. Suzaku does refer to this in the picture drama, as I have told other people. Honestly, the line that stood out more for me than anything was "I will not let anyone else have him." Again, Zero/Lelouch is Suzaku's kill. This is his responsibility. He doesn't just want Zero dead. *He* wants to do it. A similar parallel to Lelouch shooting Euphie himself when he probably could have let Kallen kill her. The boys do genuinely *accept* their responsibilities.

How this all coincides with the Emperor and the whole power exchange is where things get stick...

Also, I think smiling Suzaku may be an indication of how he is once the knights work on him a bit. I'm fairly sure Gino is here for two reasons: to keep Suzaku sane and possibly to be another lesson... Interpret that as you will. Geass writers are sadists.

[rainbow-cnxn.livejournal.com]

Eh, I guess it's far too early for us to be able to really have some good theorycrafting. After all, I'm relying on a box and two sentences for my theory, haha. I'm of the school that is leaning towards the Emperor being responsible for the mass mindwipe. Then again, this is almost pure conjecture, lol.

I personally don't think that Suzaku would use Nunnally as leverage, per se, but that ultimately boils down to my perception of him as a decent, honorable guy at heart. He's not above killing everyone that gets in his way on the battlefield, but I don't think that he'd actually use Nunnally as a hostage. After all, even in his rage at the end of episode 25, he said that he was going to be the one to "save Nunnally".

The Emperor is a confusing character, mainly in that we don't know his true objective. Is he trying to collect all the geass points and become a god of some sort? Is he trying to crush the rebellion? Is he amused by Lelouch and is simply shitstirring to see what will happen next?

[realms-of-life.livejournal.com]

Interesting points. Also, Marianne knew C.C. and speaks with her. There is something very, very fishy about the whole Vie Britannia+Charles family. :) Poor Schneizel must be so confused.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Mm, I also don't see Suzaku, himself, using Nunnally, but... I'm not so sure he couldn't be convinced to "cooperate" if he truly believed Nunnally was safe and if it was a direct order from the Emperor. Suzaku may very well have been told he could protect Nunnally. Again, Emperor/Suzaku messes my theories up something fierce. XD

Yeah, I'm not even trying to rationalize the Emperor until we get further in. Aside from my belief that he and C.C. are playing out the same game. Perhaps on different sides.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Everyone needs more Suzaku in their lives! Especially Gino. XD

will to change the world, or is intrinsically biased against any leader who is not himself, or any leader who fails, or is genuinely disgusted by the Eleven's need of a savior. I love all these interpretations, especially the second and the third. Lelouch does so hate failure.

I'm surprised the boy doesn't dislocate something. The flexibility blows my mind!

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I'm not so sure Schneizel is in the dark. Schneizel was after Gawain. But still, I doubt he knows as much as dear Daddy. But did Marianne know C.C. because of her own dealings or because of her connection to Charles?

[ryoku-chan.livejournal.com]

I have to agree, I would not like Rollo if I hadn't seen that bit from Lost Color. It was the main thing that made me dislike Nunnally.

[realms-of-life.livejournal.com]

In fact, as I watched the episode, I enjoyed very much the idea that Suzaku would agree to give Lelouch the VERY THING Suzaku himself wants the most: erase his own sins from existence so he will never be responsible for them. I love how twistedly loving that would be. XD

Of course, that is my ficcer's mind speaking louder and probably holds no ground in canon.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

A SuzaLulu fangirl can hardly change her ways, Realms. You almost make me want to accept the idea myself.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Don't underestimate the Rollo. He knocked Kallen flat on her ass. Lelouch is still the overall uke here. XD

[piccu.livejournal.com]

LOL That bit of evilness makes me love Rollo even more XDD

[realms-of-life.livejournal.com]

Lol. A fangirl is a fangirl is a fangirl. XD I also like the idea that it was both a gift to Suzaku to himself using Lelouch as a proxy, and a way of giving Lelouch a second chance. The truth is, Suzaku would looove to be brainwashed. He has been doing that to himself for eight years, after all. :)

You know, Lelouch and Zero saved Suzaku's life a thousand times in season one. I'd like to think that Suzaku - as a samurai-inspired soldier and a friend - would at least cut him some slack for that. And then feel extremely upset and betrayed all over again because Lelouch didn't comply, relaxed and had a happy life. Again, ficcer's mind speaking louder. :)

[realms-of-life.livejournal.com]

100% agreed with both statements. XD

[realms-of-life.livejournal.com]

Hahaha, I agree. And you are right about Gino. He is too happy to survive, poor thing. He is so dead. Hopefully not by Lelouch, otherwise I will start thinking Lelouch DOES want to eliminate the competition. Good thing Rivalz has issues with his dad. It's probably what is keeping him alive.

Lelouch is a thing of beauty. Like a train crash without the most messy bits. :)