Argghh Refrain

[tenshi789.livejournal.com]

Refrain Analogies

(ugh sorry I know there are already 2 or 3 other discussion postson Turn 15, buuut

I was just thinking back on Turn 15, and I found it interesting that Suzaku compared giving Refrain to Kallen, to Zero.

From gg's subs:

You will tell me everything. With this Refrain...

There's no need to be afraid.

Your own will shall soon be gone, and you will answer my questions.

You will obey my orders.

*Kallen whining/crying*

I-I... won't become like him!

Before I was talking with a friend and we were like "If Suzaku did that, fandom would totally hate him forever." Even the die-hard Suzaku fans couldn't justify injecting drugs into a prisoner (especially Kallen! ;_;) It's just morally wrong and is so going against Suzaku's ends by the means thing.

But now that I think about what Suzaku said, "I-I... won't become like him!" isn't giving Kallen Refrain the same thing as Lelouch geassing someone? It takes away free will, alters consciousness and commands obedience.

I dunno, I just thought about it a bit more, and if I was going to hate Suzaku forever for forcefully giving Kallen drugs, I should hate Lelouch every time he uses Geass because it ends with the same result- one's just a physical injection and the other is metaphysical mindfuck.

And just a random completely overdue Kallen related question:

What actually did happen to her mother?
In Stage 9, SHS-Ureshii said "Your sentence is out, it's 20 years" and gg's was something like "The verdict is out it's 20 years."
And I was talking with a friend again and she was like "Kallen's mum went to jail for doing drugs" and I'm like wtf do they really do that (it's obviously not the same as our world, but still, I've never heard of somebody going to jail for doing drugs.)
I was under the impression that Kallen's mum would be a drooling vegetable-like-state in hospital for 20 years, but the fansubs definitely tell otherwise. So clarification anyone? xD

Oh, and some random lolness I stole from Kit-chan

"Nii-san...where are you...you're late for our nightly make-out session...:("

Comments

[arasay-x3.livejournal.com]

Yeah Kallen's mum did drugs. That's why Kallen was so into stopping Lelouch take the drug. Well that's what I read from some other discussion sights!

Ah Rolo looks so cool in that pic! :D LOL at the caption below ;D

[sukiyakiya.livejournal.com]

I dunno, I just thought about it a bit more, and if I was going to hate Suzaku forever for forcefully giving Kallen drugs, I should hate Lelouch every time he uses Geass because it ends with the same result- one's just a physical injection and the other is metaphysical mindfuck
heh, its because mostly ppl doing about "they favorite person", though in classic way, in Real Life even Intellegent 'secretly' does have permission to drug terrorist to got information, cruel i know, but that was one of the way.

Maybe is an ugly random ppl or maybe unimportant terrorist cameo, no one will protest that Suzaku will drug him/her.

I have heard some word that "hero and criminals are have a thin line difference" *grins*

[kiriska.livejournal.com]

Other than the miscenally people he's told to die, Lelouch hasn't really used his geass to intentionally hurt someone, mostly just to get information and to make them useful to him. As most people don't know of his power, he also isn't traumatizing them because they don't know what's going on. And as far as I can think of right now, none of his actual followers have been geass'd into obeying him for his rebellion. Especially in the case of Kallen, where she suspected that he had toyed with him, I think it's significant that Lelouch hadn't, so I don't really think it's fair for Suzaku to draw the parallel. Maybe it's also not fair that people don't know about the Lelouch's geass and thus can't be "OH SHIT NO--" when he uses it on them, but I also wonder. If Suzaku had contracted with C.C. instead of Lelouch, what would have happened?

[spleener.livejournal.com]

She was a vegetable temporarily due to taking the drug, I don't think it was remotely permanent. But yes, taking illegal drugs tends to get you thrown into jail for a while, this isn't just a Britannian thing, most countries do this, though where they draw the line varies (specifically regarding marijuana) most of them agree that things like heroin and crack should be illegal to sell and use.

[zerorevenge.livejournal.com]

What actually did happen to her mother?
In Stage 9, SHS-Ureshii said "Your sentence is out, it's 20 years" and gg's was something like "The verdict is out it's 20 years."
And I was talking with a friend again and she was like "Kallen's mum went to jail for doing drugs" and I'm like wtf do they really do that (it's obviously not the same as our world, but still, I've never heard of somebody going to jail for doing drugs.)
I was under the impression that Kallen's mum would be a drooling vegetable-like-state in hospital for 20 years, but the fansubs definitely tell otherwise. So clarification anyone? xD

People goto jail all the time for Drugs, as I understood, she's going to jail for being included in the Refrain Drug Ring.

[saverellawish.livejournal.com]

But now that I think about what Suzaku said, "I-I... won't become like him!" isn't giving Kallen Refrain the same thing as Lelouch geassing someone? It takes away free will, alters consciousness and commands obedience.

I dunno, I just thought about it a bit more, and if I was going to hate Suzaku forever for forcefully giving Kallen drugs, I should hate Lelouch every time he uses Geass because it ends with the same result- one's just a physical injection and the other is metaphysical mindfuck.

The reason so many people were against what Suzaku was doing is because he was resorting to using drugs to get information, let alone on a female. Most of us are taught that drugs are bad, bad, bad early on in life. Hell, in elementary school I went through the DARE program that taught us how bad drugs, cigarettes, and alcohol is. Its pounded into our brains, which is ironic considering that the government thinks its ok to do on terrorists, but oh our own citizens can't be doing it.

The reason most people aren't against what Lelouch does is because we're not taught any morals on mind raping people. Of course most would consider is morally wrong, but for those of us who haven't questioned lelouch's actions, because hes not really hurting, its ok, right? The problem with a storyline like Geass's is that what main characters like Lelouch, doing something to avenge a lost family member and make a happier place for their younger sibling, don't realize is that if things had just stayed the way they were, if they didn't take action and accepted that their lives were good as things are, they would have lived a peaceful life and that their sibling would be just happy for it. But we wouldn't have much of a story then would we?

I'm not justifying Lelouch's actions at all because he hasn't and won't get off scot free. Hes massacred more than a few people, he killed Clovis, he killed Euphemia, he lost Shirley, Nunnally is no longer beside him, Kallen is captured, and he almost lost C.C. and apparently he lost whatever wisdom she still had to pass onto him considering her current state. And there will be much more hes going to lose as the series goes on. Thats what I take solace in for him being my favorite character. I know the end won't be good for him, and considering his actions its quite well deserved. But I can't help liking him, thats all there is to it.

The only reason I was ticked off with Suzaku is because I don't approve of his actions lately. Though Lelouch's actions are far more agreeable for my tastes, I've never really hated Suzaku for anything hes done. I can see both of their sides, and because its just a story I try not to get emotionally involved, but you just can't help things like that. The lines between good and bad are still pretty blurred in Geass so of course reactions to the characters are different from week to week. But I'll never approve of using drugs on someone, terrorist or not.

I'll stop there cause this will just get longer ._.;;

Also, don't people always go to jail for doing drugs? I mean if the police find it on them they arrest both the buyers and the sellers. I thought it was always that way. My little brother watches COPS so I guess it never really occured to me it would be any different.