Turn 14, Lulu, VV and everyone else

[recodes.livejournal.com]

I know it's only been an hour after the episode finished, but if I don't write this down now, I'd probably forget later ~_~ So... my thoughts about this turn...

1. I have to give Lulu lots of credits for managing to appear calm after Shirley's death, unlike the mess Suzaku seemed to put himself in after Euphie died.
   
   
2. When did Lulu actually have the set installed in front of the entrance? Even I thought he was still in Ashford O_o
   
   
3. Is Suzaku completely evil, or is he completely desperate to go against Lulu? I love him and all, but for him to persuade Kallen this way... Feeding Kallen the bullshit that Lulu killed Shirley is one thing, but to drug her with refrain is another... WTF Suzaku?!!!
   
   
4. I think we were wrong when we thought VV expected Jeremiah to go against him. Apparently, he was shocked to find Lelouch at the other end of the line when the call connected. And if his "Jeremiah, even you too...!!" means anything, then he really didn't expect this.
   
   
5. Took VV a while to notice the one in Vincent was Rolo :P
   
   
6. Charles' "My son Lelouch! The time has come!' comment now convinced me that the stage for the finale had been planned all along... Ugh.
   
   
7. The little kids with Geass ability that we saw in the scans before :D They called Rolo 'Rolo-oniichan'~ Now I really don't want Rolo to die, though Lulu was ready to detonate Vincent in order to trap/kill VV.
   
   
8. LOL at Toudou and Chiba in the bedroom ~__~
   
   
9. CC's apology to the cult members before destroying them, saying they were all in the mess now because of her 'sin'. Needs Turn 15 now!
   
   
10. VV, with his hair in a mess, looks so much like Clovis :D
    
    
11. EDIT: Bartley x Clovis should be made canon O_o

I have a question...

So, since Lelouch has discarded his Zero mask, is his identity somehow out in the open now? I was sure there were other members present during the attack against the cult. Or was I reading into it too much? Hmm... I'd love for this to happen soon.

And for everything else I forgot to mention, let the discussion rolllll~

Comments

[epistretes.livejournal.com]

Seriously, get over the Suzaku hate, people.

Sure, what he threatened to do (threatened, not actually go through with as far as we know) was to use one person to get the truth.

Lelouch ordered a massacre. AGAIN.

Seriously. Why the severe hate for Suzaku but total love for Lelouch?

Yes, before you go on about how much I must hate Lelouch, I am actually a huge fan of his character, I'm just utterly fed up of everything about Suzaku being nonsense crack or complete outright hate.

[hobbit-hunter.livejournal.com]

Because it's the shock of how much Suzaku has really changed, I think. He's so different now that he's no longer the same Suzaku.

Where as you know, Lelouch ordering a massacre is nothing new. Imo.

[epistretes.livejournal.com]

He never really was that in the first place, when you look at the picture book and how he was when he first met Lelouch, he punched him. He killed his own father - all before episode 23.

Yes, I miss smiley-Suzaku, but as a foil to the main character, he is very good.

[hobbit-hunter.livejournal.com]

I actually haven't had the awesome chance to see a lot of the picture books or other media of Code Geass, sadly. He accidentally killed his father by trying to prove a point... that's a little different than what he does now. Though one could say him doing that caused the turn events he is at now.

Very good foil indeed.

[lavaliere]

Why the severe hate for Suzaku but total love for Lelouch?

Because he's the titluar character, of course. Everyone knows that the main character always gets the best publicity love!



Honestly, I don't hate Suzaku, but I'm dissapointed with what he's threatening to do. It seems to undermine his whole purpose and present him as a hypocrite. Lelouch, however, openly gives his reasons for what he does and acknowledges that what he does is evil most of the time. Suzaku, however, puts on this righteous air when his means aren't necessarily righteous at all.

And that's my thoughts on yaoi.

[epistretes.livejournal.com]

I know they do and I love Lelouch as much as the next rabid fangirl but it is getting so old. I've lost count of the amount of times I've seen just tons of Suzaku hate all over this community let alone the rest of the fandom and it is just really starting to bore me.

It is a sad thing what he is doing, but when you look at what is driving him to do it, it is understandable. Shitty, but understandable.

Suzaku dropped the righteous air imo when Euphie died. That moment he hung up the phone to Lelouch was the moment he stopped pretending. He always has been violent and even Euphie didn't fully change that part of him.

and now bed coz it is 6.40am >>

[lavaliere]

I think the reason behind the hate is because Sunrise introduces Suzaku as a righteous martyr. Hell, the first episode it's hinted that he "dies" for his friend, whom he hadn't seen for seven years. And it's not until much later in the series do we discover his reasons behind being such a "good person." Or even much later that he was initally a spoiled brat. Yes, the facade is stripped away when Euphemia dies, to an extent, but some might think that the facade should not have been there in the first place. (Not me necessarily, but that's the feeling I get from people)

Suzaku also still hides behind this "good person" facade at times. Look how he treats Nunnally or behaves in front of large groups (like in episode 8). He's still trying to give the air that he's doing the right thing for the right purposes. He doesn't acknowledge that what he is doing is wrong as much as Lelouch does. Hell, Lelouch actually says "I will become the evil that will destroy the greater evil." Suzaku still hides behind his status as a knight and "I joined the military to save Japan." Only now it's "I sold out my friend and am striving to become Knight of One all just to save Japan."

Again, just my thoughts on it, and they're probably not as cohesive considering how early/late it is, but oh well. xD;

[aidama.livejournal.com]

correct

the problem the greater fanbase has with suzaku is that he has progressed from "i will do everything the righteous way" to pretty much a carbon copy of lelouch. as a result its easier to hate him because his character development has been clearly defined. moreover, lelouch has always been lelouch, his motivations and personality traits have remained constant throughout the series; thus, the fact that lelouch orders the massacre of innocents born into the cult largely do his own failures should come as no surprise.

he still isn't nearly as bad as lelouch though, yet

[jusrecht.livejournal.com]

I don't think the way he treats Nunnally or behaves in ep 8 is a facade at all. It's just something that he does. It's him who wants to protect Japan and Nunnally, even if behind it all, the real reason is redemption for his own sins. The thing about Lelouch is he accepts that he is evil. Suzaku doesn't have this quality, mainly I think because he's used to think of himself as virtuous, or at least trying to be virtuous. To put it in a worse way, he can't afford to be evil again after what he did to his father.

But seriously, why not give him the benefit of the doubt?

[lulu-holic.livejournal.com]

pravoooooooo!!! *clap clap clap* everything said about suzaku is right1 thank you!1 u relived me!

[apapazukamori.livejournal.com]

but some might think that the facade should not have been there in the first place.

But that's the audience presuming they know more about a character and a series than the creators do. The Suzaku-hate shouldn't get a free pass because some fans have entitlement issues.

He's still trying to give the air that he's doing the right thing for the right purposes.

I have a feeling he still does believe he's more or less doing that. When he hesitates to execute his assassin-wannabe and Anya asks him if he's a masochist, he replies that he knows people hate him, and that's all right. Because he's got a higher goal in mind. In a twisted way, handing Lelouch over to Charles saved Lelouch's life. Suzaku could have killed him right then just for revenge's sake. Instead, he took a page from Lelouch's book and used the situation to both their advantages. Granted, Lelouch doesn't see it that way, but in Suzaku's mind, he did what he needed to do to achieve the best possible outcome, so it's all right if Lelouch hates his guts.

[cannedsardines.livejournal.com]

I suppose that Lelouch's habit of impotent(to the viewer) threats are rubbing off on Suzaku. Consider it a payback to Lelouch for the bluff of threatening to kill the student council members(including Nunnally) and make him fall into another Gefjun Trap in Stage 24.

Basically I don't think Suzaku would have carried through with it.

In fact, Suzaku, you totally lose in the war of morals. Didn't he say that he "didn't believe in victory won by the wrong means"?

Suzaku, you are a traitor to your own morals. Welcome to the "Sell Your Soul to the Devil" club.

[lulu-holic.livejournal.com]

i tottaly agree with u

[cannedsardines.livejournal.com]

Haha ^^; I just realized I sound a little anti-Suzaku there, but Suzaku has to learn that grumpy face isn't really suitable for garnering support to his cause.

In fact I was hoping Kallen would slap Suzaku, she has already slapped Lelouch/Zero at least two times, why not the White Knight too? :D

[hatsumomo.livejournal.com]

This comment ftw.

[apapazukamori.livejournal.com]

Wordy McWord. I, personally, find R2 Suzaku just as awesome as Season 1, if not more.

[jukebox-hero.livejournal.com]

AGREED.

/Suzu fangirl
//likes Lelouch, too

[zerorevenge.livejournal.com]

NO WAI. HEY. WAIT A SECOND. I KNOW j00 o_o

[gacktsuki.livejournal.com]

Lelouch wants to "destroy the world". It's obvious that he can't avoid bloodshed even if he wants to. His character is just as we expected and just as he admits it is.
Suzaku is different. He thinks he's justice and peace and such. He says he can't forgive Lelouch for the terrible things Lelouch did, and yet he is playing dirty tricks. WTF!? Such as hypocrite.
Don't get me wrong. I'm the real fan of Lelouch X Suzaku's friendship.

[m-san.livejournal.com]

I love Lulu and hate susaku!!!!!!!

[zerorevenge.livejournal.com]

Much love for you good Sir (or... Ma'am [too lazy to check]).

[stigmatize.livejournal.com]

So far I really haven't seen that much Suzaku hate outside of /a/. If you have a problem with how they treat Suzaku's character, don't rant about it on an unrelated site.

And re: your argument for Suzaku;

SHORT STORY: baby boy is just as fucked up as Lelouch.

LONG STORY: he threatened to do something extremely unethical to obtain information he already knows to be true so he can arrest Lelouch instead of just going after Zero. While he could simply continue with the tactic of going after Zero when he appears, which has not been very successful. Instead this move shows that he is prepared to put aside his morals in a quest for justice, even if it means hurting one of his friends.

Furthermore, when talking to Kallen, we note that he immediately states that it was Lelouch who killed her; something completely unproven and bordering on a lie. One could say that anyone would assume the same thing, but as a member of a higher law enforcement... type thing, one would suspect that it would be his duty to thoroughly research things before making such accusations. Finally; threatened? Suzaku already knows that Kallen's trust to Zero is endless, there's no way he's going to get the response he wants without the drugs. I read it as a statement, frankly.

I'm not saying that Suzaku is some saint compared to Lelouch; I believe they're both very fucked up in different ways. At this point I don't think we should hold either of them above one another, because they've both done fucked up shit and will probably be even in the Oh Shit You Fucker tally by the end of the series.

[epistretes.livejournal.com]

Please don't make assumptions about me, thanks. I don't touch /a/ with a bargepole.

They're both messed up, which is my whole original point - yet Suzaku is the one taking all the fandom's hate.

[stigmatize.livejournal.com]

Well, as that's the only place I really know of that hates Suzaku with a burning rage, so I just assumed, Sorry!

Lelouch isn't without his haters either. I've seen him compared to Hitler by fandom within the last two minutes! It's really a mixed bowl, it more depends on where you look.

[tulleskirt.livejournal.com]

Iawtc so hard.