R2 Episode 5 Discussion: Knight takes Queen

[nayami.livejournal.com]

First, I am only posting this because I see the other discussion post carries a specific topic. I know that more than a few of us have been anticipating this episode since spoilers leaked, and it definitely didn't disappoint. But I really wanted to get into some issues with the boyas, as always. Also I have to take this moment to say that you really shouldn't expect to be too surprised if you're reading spoilers. I read them too, and I wish I didn't. Le sob. Blah blah be nice to characters/opinions and no mentioning spoilers. It's party time Ashford style!



I thought the episode did an amusing job of balancing Lelouch's bitchiness (knocking C.C. into the tomato bin and closing it, snarling at her for running out in the open, plotting to catch Suzaku, delivering the verbal smack-down to Villetta and continuing his mind games with Rollo) with his utter fail. I will never get tired of watching everyone outrun Lelouch. Actually, let's take a moment to examine some of that bitchiness in more detail. I was a bit irked that Lelouch went for Villetta so suddenly since it seems a bit sloppy for him. He has a good piece of information yes, but he's better off continuing to play his game, especially now that he has Rollo on his side. That said, his delivering of "Happy Birthday" was delicious. He's gambling too much on Villetta's fear that the Ougi thing will destroy her; he should know better than to underestimate Villetta.

There is also his hypocrisy about secrets. I love the disparity between his casually telling Kallen that it's all right for him to have a few secrets after she questions his not telling them about the pilot of the Vincent. It's not even that Lelouch never keeps a few secrets and not even that those secrets got the Black Knights captured in the first place. It's that in the same episode Lelouch acts utterly disappointed that Ougi would dare keep the Villetta thing a secret from him. I always knew Lelouch was a hypocrite, but now I can claim it without shame. Still, I forgive his bitchiness because he's Lulu and he's been mind-raped, lost his sister and thoroughly messed things up based on one case of very bad timing. I think he's entitled to a little bit of snappish behavior. He's also an arrogant ass at times. As long as he's not too sloppy, I'm happy.

I do whine a bit about Lelouch not being made to stand up for his actions at the Black Rebellion. Way to let your leader off the hook, lemmings. I swear Zero has maybe five competent people on his team and the rest are canon fodder. Maybe not to him but to everyone with a brain.

Slick move putting in the shot of the wall and the hatch marks that just trail off. Limit to geass or did something happen to our little Carve-tan? I know everyone is reading to go "OMG Suzaku is screwed," but keep in mind the creators say his geass is still going to nail him. I also am wary about this "limited" geass notion, as it goes against everything the creators have said. But we will see.

I do enjoy Rollo wavering between wanting to shiv Lelouch and wanting to kill Suzaku. The scene where Rollo tells him to hold the knife carefully while Suzaku does his stalking thing is so adorable. Speaking of the stalker, the way he holds authority is all new levels of hot. And as I crazy-theorized earlier, he is acting very Lelouchesque, right down to his wording at times.

I cannot believe the creators were evil enough to barrage us with more adorable chibi flashbacks before getting into the game of lies and espionage that was this episode. Some have pointed out it's quite telling that Lelouch and Suzaku never complete their statement about what they are to each other now. I do wonder if Lelouch truly thought he could fool Suzaku since he was so confident that he had Suzaku just because Suzaku came to see Lelouch. I am it was obvious why Suzaku given the seat next to him. He had to know Suzaku was checking on his memories; he saw him stalking him. Why didn't he act first? Was he just that damn cocky? I am not sure if this was more foolish trust in the friendship or what, but it seems a dangerous dangerous game for him to play. And he lost. Guess the worst enemy is most often the self, huh Lelouch? I also love that Suzaku is smarter than Villetta when it comes to Lelouch, not at all fooled by Lelouch's ruse.

Suzaku's ability to shift between his personas blows my mind. It's better than ever. The difference between Rivalz hanging off him and Gino doing the same is worlds apart. I think Suzaku's reaction around people is another result of not wanting to lose anyone, not wanting them to get close to him. But he's willing to fake at school because that is what everyone expects. And Suzaku has always been good at faking. But I do believe some of it is sincere such as his trying to reassure Milly that Lloyd is just a bizarre person. And of course, his love for Arthur, who still shows his appreciation in violent ways of cute. I will insert squeeing about KotR here, but really we need some more scenes with Anya before we can actually say anything about her. Gino really is Tamaki with a mecha. WHAT A TERRIFYING THOUGHT. Him and his love of commoners.

Ok so Nunnally. First, I am tired of seeing "Suzaku used Nunnally." Truly tired of it. And here is why. I don't think Suzaku is using Nunnally, but he is using her importance to Lelouch. I think Suzaku's goal to become Knight of One and take Japan, especially if he has someone who is sympathetic toward the Japanese on his side (similar to Euphie), has merit in his mind. I also do not believe Suzaku would hurt Nunnally. As he says, he already lost enough people. I also debate on the "important friends" line because both blogs used "friend" and Suzaku only has two people he "lost". I think the line refers to Lelouch and Euphie only. Which gets into issues of double mentality, similar to Kallen. I might elaborate on this later. But it plays back to what happened in the throne room. Note, I find Turn 1 entirely inconsistent with anything else we've seen thus far so aside from the big picture, I remove most of it from this analysis. In either case, I don't think Suzaku is out to hurt Nunnally. I think he truly wants to work with her to fix things. There's also the fact that only the Emperor can appoint Governor Generals. Suzaku might have made the suggestion, but he only has so much influence. The Emperor would have known as well. But yes, Suzaku is using the relationship to place Lelouch/Zero in check. As makes sense since he needs to stop Zero by any means possible. He doesn't believe the Japanese need Zero; they can be saved without his methods.

Also in response to people's whining about Suzaku's goals being foolish and ill-thought and liable to only be a band-aid... umm we're supporting someone who thinks he can overthrow an entire empire... and then what? Suddenly free people? What about the EU and China? What about the Britannia momeland mainland? Both players have extreme goals, and who's to say one has more likelihood than the other. Perspective as always.

About the "lost friend" line, I do believe Suzaku thinks Lelouch is beyond redemption, that Zero has destroyed him, and that it is Suzaku's fault as well for not stopping him when he could have. (There is debate on this issue, regarding Suzaku possibly using Nunnally and his words about Japan not needing Zero as a warning to Lelouch to BACK THE HELL OFF before he has to take action.) I also believe that Suzaku was prepared to let Lelouch live without his memories. Since "Zero" was effectively dead. I also note that after telling Kallen that "This is Lelouch," his words to Lelouch are "Zero, I will stop you." He only refers to him as Lelouch again when he is answering his question. Note: "I told you, Lelouch. I would change Britannia from the inside." His expression. It's almost like he's not even talking to him, he is repeating something he always told his friend. I think Suzaku has distanced the Lelouch he knew from Zero to a point. This is no longer the friend he cherished. He cannot get him back. So yes, he has lost him.

And what of his talk about having enough military power? With Nunnally in place, Zero is well and truly stuck (ehem people talking about Lelouch possibly killing Nunnally scare me because NO). Why does Suzaku need full strength? By the way, I totally laughed at him chewing out Gino for not bringing Lancelot. YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAY. What is Suzaku's role in the plot to catch C.C.? What was his role in the plot to do so by killing the bait: amnesiac Lelouch? Of course, this depends heavily on whether my suggestion that Suzaku would have let amnesiac!Lelouch live is true. I also throw the possibility of the end of Turn 1 being a flash-forward into this mix since it would be the only way of retaining consistency, with Suzaku's declaration of being the one to kill Zero. One thing's for sure, Suzaku is surely the trump card that was sent after Lelouch. What does the Emperor have in mind?

I will now take this moment to laugh at the hilarious fanservice and then urge Kallen to call Lelouch on his bullshit more often. Seriously. Fight the good fight, Kallen!

Comments

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Good point! But I wonder whether the distance is enough to stop the pull to return or whether it's a back of the mind thing.

[birdsarecalling.livejournal.com]

Suzaku's ability to shift between his personas blows my mind. It's better than ever. The difference between Rivalz hanging off him and Gino doing the same is worlds apart. I think Suzaku's reaction around people is another result of not wanting to lose anyone, not wanting them to get close to him.

I find it interesting that Suzaku is willing to be as genuine as he is around the other KOTR. He is used to faking to get by amongst Brittainians, and if he wants to be Knight of One, it would make sense for him to curry favor amongst his peers. Either he feels secure enough in his position that he doesn't give a damn, or he has an odd sort of trust in his fellow soldiers.

And what of his talk about having enough military power? With Nunnally in place, Zero is well and truly stuck (ehem people talking about Lelouch possibly killing Nunnally scare me because NO). Why does Suzaku need full strength?

Perhaps to keep Lelouch from stealing her away? If Zero kidnaps Nunnally then Suzaku loses his trump card. Suzaku's probably hoping that Zero will go after her so that he, Anya, and Gino can draw the Black Knights out and crush them for good.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I think Suzaku is tired of faking and was only doing it for the sake of seeming like he was all right around Lelouch and the others so his tricksy self wouldn't be suspected. But you raise a good point about him wanting to remain detached but showing his true self to the KotR. He does have authority around the KotR; maybe he just feels more secure with them because he truly believes they respect him.

Actually that makes a lot of sense. He does tell the Knights he will bring everything out into the open that night. He might very well have revealed his hand so Zero would move against him. Lelouch does lose all sense when Nunnally's involved and will be spontaneous.

[morose-doll.livejournal.com]

Ah, good analysis.

Anyhow I am tired also I people saying that Suzaku is using Nunnaly - because I do not believe that is the case. He appointed her there to stop Zero's ambition and also further push for his own plan.

Everyone remember when Suzaku said that he will change the britannian empire from the inside? Well, yeah by placing Nunnally there he can help the japanese along with Nunnally who's compassion will help.

If the japanese are treated right because of this then Lelouch is out of business.

[snozzlenut.livejournal.com]

AGREED!
Suzaku cares about Nunnally and I don't believe he would put her in any kind of danger or purposely hurt her for the sake of getting Zero. He probably believes she can fill the gap that Euphie left in regards to compassion towards the Japanese. Or something like that xD

[epicureal.livejournal.com]

The hatch marks thing really surprised me, because - and I'll probably have to go back and double-check this, but I'm pretty sure - Lelouche's instructions to Carve-tan were to make a cross every day; the last one shown is just one line. Which would suggest she stopped half-way through making the cross mark.

And I laughed at Lelouche's inability to run too XD It's so wonderfully at odds with how capable he is with just about everything else. Don't ever change, Lulu!

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Right. That's why people say the geass wore off. I say it looks like she was interrupted...

His fail moments are what remind us that he's just a frail little boy beneath all his plottings and maniacal laughter. I like that.

[kuroshin.livejournal.com]

Suzaku is one of the most brilliant characters ever. His mastery of faking emotions and reactions is just astounding and scary and his utter idealism is just a very likeable conflict to his reputaion as Britannia's reaper. Im very sure that if he'll be a knight of one, he'll just use his faking.

The only thing I do not like about him is that he's using Nunnaly's importance to Lelouch. That's just pretty underhanded and im very much pro Lulu, but im sure Lulu will be able to get off the hook on this pinch.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Yes, the clash between Suzaku's wish to protect and his reputation as a murderer is quite interesting. But I think the difference from before and now is that Suzaku is more willing to make sacrifices to ensure that protection. Again, very Lelouchian. I am having too much fun making up Lelouch words. XD

I don't see it as underhanded. I see it as good strategy. Nunnally is safe, and her "psychotic brother" will have to be careful in pulling his next move or rush in blindly and then be defeated by the Knights. It plays ironically to Lelouch's line that sometimes "One must become evil to defeat evil." They are just flipsides of each other now, each championing their own cause. And Suzaku wants to save Japan without the chaos Zero is sure to bring.

[realms-of-life.livejournal.com]

Yay, thank you for posting. You know I'm a huge supporter of the BACK THE HELL OFF theory, but I think the authors DO intend to keep us in the dark for the time being, and that scene was meant to be ambiguous like that. We won't know exactly where Suzaku stands until the authors decide it's the right time, and I think they will play with this ambiguity until we go insane. XD

I don't think it is unlikely that Lelouch might kill Nunnally by accident. Isn't that what he does all the time? Of course, if that ever happens he will go batshit crazy, thank you very much.

Nice point about the extreme goals. The boys are more alike each other than they think. That's probably one of the reasons they managed to become friends: they were both able to dream high, and for precious amount of time, they were able to dream together. But of course, that's not only about dreams and ideals. Both boys' world views are excruciatingly tied to their own selfish needs: Lelouch needs his safety and revenge ("It's over when somebody wins"). Suzaku needs his redemption from violence, and that's probably why they will never be able to persuade each other.

I think that Lelouch was more worried about Ougi than disappointed. He didn't see it coming because as far as he is concerned, Ougi is one of his major fanboys. Also, he does get attached to people and Ougi's "friendly" way has always caused an interesting reaction in him. Of course, C.C. had to make up for his lack of hormones and explain what was going on. Also Lelouch is, and will always be a control freak and the idea that Ougi was betraying him in some way was probably not very welcomed.

About his reaction to Suzaku: I think that, unfortunately, Lelouch was still in denial about his (ex?) friend - he turned down Rolo's proposal, he thought about "capturing him". I think there is something else to it too: people have been pointing out how much Suzaku has changed. As usual, Lelouch's changes tend to be far more subtle. I think that now he does have less qualms about using people's feelings than he used to - maybe because he has suffered too much, maybe because he is lonely and desperate. He has always used people's feelings as an strategic weapon, but now he is being far more cruel about it. I think that's why he was happy when Suzaku came looking for "Lelouch". That was a feeling he could use. A connection. Of course, that was also a terrible mistake: Suzaku got there first. (I have to point out that, in his over protectiveness, Lelouch has always underestimated the people he loves a little, and Suzaku has not been an exception).

And yes, the boy has been through a lot and I also forgive him his usual recklessness. He is in a tight schedule too, because he must "save" Nunnally.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Haha yes, it was your pet theory I was referring to. And you know they will torture us for as long as they can.

Accidental death I can buy. But some are talking about deliberately killing her to take Japan, and that made me cry.

I find it very interesting you refer to one of Lelouch's goals as safety, especially bringing up that line. I always thought it was more along the lines of protection, but safety makes a lot of sense.

Mm, I think disappointed was the wrong word. But yes, I did get a sense of worry in there as well since Ougi is supposed to be smarter than that. But his reaction was still so damn ironic.

Yes, I do think Lelouch was planning on using Suzaku's feelings, but I am still very surprised that he misjudged them so very wrong. You made another interesting point about Lelouch underestimating those he cared about. I just can't believe he would do it AGAIN. He's already by caught by Suzaku's inside knowledge once before. You'd think he'd be more prepared for it. I do want to go more into his stopping Rollo from killing Suzaku, but I don't want to get shot down by canon.

[lavaliere]

Interesting analysis. I have to agree with the idea that Suzaku doesn't want to kill Lelouch, but wants to kill Zero. He does seem to make an effort in distinguishing the two. Suzaku, being one who seeks redemption for his past crimes, wouldn't want to kill off a former friend for the sake of what's right. The murder would be to similar to the murder of his father. But if he can effectively stop Zero without harm coming to Lelouch, that would better fit his goal. He probably really thought that the Emperor's overwriting of Lelouch's memories was the best for him, even if it meant hurt Lelouch somewhat.

As for Nunnally, that bit was really quite interesting. Lelouch's reaction was predictable, however I think he might be able to divise some manner of maintaing his cover. He would simply have to hang up on Nunnally without acknowledging her, and then pretend to be angry with Suzaku for the "prank call," insisting that he only has a brother. To me, this seems like the most logical course of action, because then he wouldn't hurt Nunnally by denying her whilst she could overhear. Whether he'll take some sort of action like this, I don't know. However, I think it would be something he would do.

Suzaku choice to work with Nunnally in the way he described actually makes me curious. Is Nunnally actually the Govenor-General, or did Suzaku merely say that to mess with Lelouch? He doesn't normally seem the type to use manipulation as the means to an end, however his time spent with the Emperor and the KotR might have changed that. Or, possibly, he is so driven by hate for the death of Euphie that he is willing to step down to that level.

Anyway, good thoughts! Thanks for sharing! Here's looking forward to the next episode!

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Yes, it gets tricky when you bring it Turn 2 because while I don't think Suzaku had any idea what would happen to Lelouch when he brought him before the Emperor, nor cared for that matter, he made the active decision not to kill him. He made the decision to use Zero to work toward saving Japan in a way that would not need Zero. I think when the whole geass and rewriting memories came up, it must have seemed to make the most sense to Suzaku, not that he was too much caring what was going on at the time and that he was really really in the mood to hurt Zero. But I am thrilled someone else agrees to my double mentality theory.

Even if Lelouch tries to fake a reaction, I worry that his natural and unconscious reaction will give him away. But it will be fun to see if he tries to get away with it anyway.

Well, Nunnally said she's the governor-general so, unless she's evil, I'm inclined to believe her. As I said in another comment, I think Suzaku has ditched his previous hangups and realized he has to fight fire with fire. If he wants to stop Zero, he has to think like Zero/Lelouch.

[lulu-quality.livejournal.com]

This episode was all sorts of awesome and your analysis really encompasses the significant themes shown. On the topic of Nunnally, I believe that, while she was approved by the Emperor, she took up the position of her own volition. In SE 6, Clovis took up the original position of his own free will (he requested for it) because he wanted to remedy the area in honor of Lelouch and Nunnally *bursts into tears*. Knowing Nunnally's perceivable compassion for the people there, she could have wanted to do the same for Euphie and the Japanese. However, so little is known about her true personality/opinions, her actions could really mean anything.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Oho! I love this idea of Nunnally taking up the position of her own choice. But I really do wonder what she thinks has become of Lelouch during all this? What did anyone tell her? I assume Suzaku has been with her and taking care of her. And what does Nunnally think about Euphie since she would have had to have heard about the massacre by now.

[vicks111.livejournal.com]

The fact that Nunally is the new governor makes me want to squeal. Does it mean the Emperor recognized her as Nunally Vi Brittania? I want to see more of the royal family, and their reactions to everything. Schneizel, especially. Makes me wonder why Cornelia went into hiding.

Part of Suzaku's deal with the Emperor must have involved safety for Nunally, so that's why I believe he is not using her. I wonder if Nunally knows Lelouch is Zero and why she didn't communicate until now. I was surprised too at Lulu using Villeta so soon, though I think that it will hinder him in the long run. I want her to see Ohgi again!! :3

As for Zero, so far he isn't in any advantage against Brittania. Though it seems he won position from rescuing the Black Knights and capturing the embassy, Brittania still has the upper hand, and as long as Nunally is with the Empire, I doubt he'll be able to do much.

As for the Chinese federation, I wonder how Xing Ke will accomplish the meeting. I keep thinking, the clamp fangirl that I am, that he is from the same Li family as Xiao Lang, just like Kaguya is Sumeragi XD
Anyone noticed Karen's new interest in him?? >:3

[nayami.livejournal.com]

... Umm I'm still not sure this is a good thing, as far as the Emperor goes. This is where we get into the tricky matter of whether Suzaku is not falling into another trap since nobody knows where the Emperor stands. But hey, the plan is as good as any.

Lelouch always manages to get the upper hand. He's Lelouch. He's just not at the top of his game right now since he's still kind of reeling.

[meijioro.livejournal.com]

When Suzaku told Lelouch about his plan to become the Knight of One, it seemed as if Lelouch was really surprised as if he was thinking, "Why the hell didn't I think of this?"

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Well, it's not like Lelouch can become the Knight of One. He's supposed to be dead. Unless you are referring to trying to encourage Suzaku to become the Knight of One before. He definitely did seem surprised though, but I think that was more along the lines of "You really thought out all that...? D-Damn, must counter with cynicism." XD

[neko-astrid.livejournal.com]

I have nothing but pure unadulterated hate for the back stanning son of a bitch, he's even going as far as to use nunnaly against LuLu. thats just plain evil, the poor girl is blind and crippled! WTF!. I hope he gets it in the end. the last scene made me scream BASATRD!! lol had my mom running into the room all narrow eyed lmao. LuLu has so got to make a comeback, all the shit from last season is coming back to bite him in the ass. C.C. has got to stop running around like she blends in anywhere. you really can't help but look at a girl with BRIGHT FLORESCENT GREEN HAIR!. the CF general has got me stumped, i'm still not sure what to think of him. on an ending note WTF is suzaku thinking, the bastard only thinks one step again ( become knight of one pick japan as mine blah blah blah) does the baka even undestand that even if he's able to do that the damn country will still be under britanian rule. DUMB ASS! the japanese will still be in poverty, not to mention does he think that if he pulls it off they will just welcome him back with open arms? WTF! the reason they like zero is because he's actully FIGHTING britania, not kisssing high noble asses. This whole episode did nothing but make me laugh and piss me off.

Ja ne!

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Good for you. Thanks for acknowledging a simple wish to discuss things with neutrality.

[zerorevenge.livejournal.com]

What's this? Support for Suzaku? And Logically explained!?

Love You.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I prefer supporting Suzaku without demonizing Lelouch. He does that to himself enough on his own. But I still like poking fun at the world of contradictions that is the dear. They are both my babies in either case and I will analyze unto the ends of the world!

Thus, I accept your love so long as it comes with cookies. ^^b

[icki-akki.livejournal.com]

*claps*

Yay for short, somewhat coherent replies. xD I did read all of this thing, really! ;_____;

[fox-holland.livejournal.com]

Suzaku used Nunnally doesn't sound right to me.

Actually I thought the Emperor re-accepted Nunnally into the Royal Family, since it wasn't she who declared to get rid of her title and destroy Britannia, just Lelouch. Overall, I just REALLY thought this was all the Emperor's doing to rub it in Lelouch's face.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Oh I do believe the Emperor has a hand in it, but I still believe Suzaku is protecting her. I don't see him as one to take out his vengeance on someone else, again given that bit about not wanting to lose anyone else. Though, I do love the idea of the Emperor giving back Nunnally's title just to go "SUCKS TO BE YOU, PRINCE LELOUCH."

[celemna.livejournal.com]

I understand both point of views honestly.

But in the end I understand one truth:

The dark and the anguish both feel gives them rights and makes them both far less demonic than I would call anyone. Suzaku knows about Geass, but he doesn't know Lelouch's side and will likely never believe it. Lelouch is being hurt by a friend he loved, and had the sister he gave up everything to save replaced and now used against him.

Neither does the best, both are selfish. But they both have reasons and they're understandable, I can't say for a minute I wouldn't do either.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

In the end, I think that is the best stance to have on Geass and the stance the creators intended. Geass was never supposed to be about black and white. Hence why Britannia is shown to have its good side as well, and the Rebellion has its idiots. Your stance is the one I wish more would take, where you take a look at it from each POV and realize what the other has to work with and why they are responding the way they are. Strangely enough, I don't think Lelouch's side of the story truly absolves him since it wouldn't have happened if he hadn't planned to use Euphie in the first place. I think this may be part of the reason he doesn't bother to defend himself. He did kill Euphie; he killed her by not distancing himself from her and by not understanding why she was doing what she was doing. Lelouch cannot change those facts.

[poftd.livejournal.com]

SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T HATE SUZAKU AFTER THAT EP? YES.

ILU and your sensibility.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

There are a lot of people who are, in fact, intrigued by Suzaku after this episode, including former haters. I think this episode gives a whole new perspective on Suzaku and people who hate him at this point are hardly going to have their minds changed regardless of what he does. They hissed and snarled just because he was even at the end of Turn 4. Suzaku is either too naive or too evil to them unfortunately. But I always appreciate more people who are willing to understand the lad.

[darth-teca.livejournal.com]

Beautiful analysis of what's going on so far and I agree with a lot of it.

~I was a little startled at how quickly Lulu went after Villetta. It felt a little rushed. Personally, I don't see it as a very smart move; even if Villetta DOES somehow cooperate with Lulu, all she has to do is wait till the right moment to betray them agai. Even if it did come out about her and Ohgi, it would be her word against their's. She would just have to do something sufficiently pro-Britannian to outweigh any doubts.

~In regards to Ohgi, I think Lelouche is finally having to deal with the emotional consequences of actually getting to know the people who work under him. He was so single minded in R1, he never really thought about the lives of the people under him, or that they might have had lives away from him. To me, it was nearly the same reaction as when he realize Kallen no longer trusted him completely.

~I think he didn't act against Suzaku right away was he just simply never thought of the fact that Suzaku would ever do anything directly related to Nunnaly because he didn't see an option where Nunnally would not be put into harm. While Suzaku can "use" people, he doesn't do it the same way Lelouche does. Suzaku seems to always be weighing the benefit of the many against the pain he would cause the person. Since Nunnally is as you said, "sunshine and bubbles" Suzaku would be even less likely to do anything to directly harm her. Lelouche didn't really take into account that Suzaku and Charles have had a year to plan out what to do if/when Lelouche gets his memories back.

~I completely agree with you that Suzaku's speech was a warning. I would say that Suzaku is setting up the perfect trap for Lelouche, one that was obviously well thought out long before it was actually started. Lelouche knows that Nunnally will be a fair and just governor, which gets rid of the support for his rebellion. Along with that, Nunnally is the one person in the world that he won't go against or put into danger in any circumstance. If Nunnally actually becomes governor, there is no way he could continue his rebellion against Britannia. Either he stops Nunnally from becoming governor or he is going to have to give up. I think this is Suzaku's last attempt to appeal to Lelouche before it becomes all out war. That while he is climbing the ranks, Nunnally will take care of the people of Japan, but he is fully ready to crush Lelouche should he choose to do something. He's got Lelouche pinned between acting against three of the tops knights of Britannia or acting against Nunnally and is merely waiting to see which fate Lelouche chooses.

~Suzaku switching between his two faces is very Japanese to me. It's really common to hear my Japanese friends say that they are completely different people around their friends than they are in public. There is a strong idea in Japan that you repress your true feelings and emotions to fit the current situation at hand; the whole "public face" and "private face." Honestly, since I'm an American, it just blows my mind when I actually see it in action or how it's taken in stride by many people in Japan. Suzaku is just DAMN good at it.

~I agree that Lelouche is woefully short sighted. Most of the people under him are not loyal to HIM, they are loyal to the fact that he is the only one who can help them win their rebellion. Once he frees Japan, I doubt most of them would be willing to continue to wage war against Britannia. Where does that leave Lelouche in his quest to bring down the entire kingdom?

~I think that that is also the reason that Zero is not held more accountable for his actions. The simple fact is, the rebellion NEEDS Zero. Kallen even nods to herself when Ohgi says that, as if reaffirming her own conviction. There have been many times throughout history where the Japanese have been amazingly pragmatic about their situation, even though it might not be perfect. There are a lot of popular Japanese culture references running through Geass and I think this is another one of them.

[realms-of-life.livejournal.com]

lol. I love your theories, especially the ones about Suzaku's flexibility and the Black Knight's opinion on Zero being a exacerbation of a stereotypical Japanese's trait. Thanks for them. :)

I don't think Lelouch is short sighted tho. The CG background shows us that Britannia has to deal with rebellions and wanna-be powers on a regular basis, not to mention the corruption and internal struggles between its own leaders. The successful independence of one important colony would set the Empire on fire EXACTLY because people don't think it is possible. Also, he is dealing with the Chinese, although we don't know what he is up to. We know that Lelouch wants the world. Thanks for making me realize he has his secret agendas too. XD

Like Nayami, I blame his failure to take him time with Villetta on his nerves. I'm actually impressed that he has not made more mistakes.

[inulovinkit.livejournal.com]

You know, I am always amused by a select few in the discussions of the latest episodes.

Last week it was all "RARRGH RAGE! LELOUCH YOU BASTARD!"

This week it's "OMGSUZAKU! YOU LITTLE BACKSTABBING TRAITOR BITCH!"

...ahem.

I agree with Suzaku telling that to Lelouch as a final warning. I mean, this is Suzaku we are talking about here. I don't know why Lelouch even thought for a second he could fool him.

And now I'm worried about what will happen with next episode and Nunnally. D: I think her probability of death just shot up by 50%.

Oh, and seeing Rolo working for the Dark Side this episode made me very, VERY happy. :D

[jusrecht.livejournal.com]

OMG I missed your analysis for the previous episode. But this? Pure win. Thank you for putting support for Suzaku into words *_*

I also went WTF when Lelouch talked to Viletta. For someone who considers all his moves carefully, that seems a bit too reckless. After all, he acknowledges her as someone he cannot GEASS anymore. Or maybe that's his reason?

About Lelouch's hypocrisy, I think it's more or less human nature. Speaking to others about certain rules is always easier than following the rules him/herself. Toudou is probably the only one who's above this standard, though I still want to strangle him for allowing Zero to get off the hook...

Gino really is Tamaki with a mecha. -> I second this. The moment he said 'commoner', my brain broke into several pieces.

I really want to comment on your Suzaku analysis, but I'm still incoherent from its awesomeness, so let me just sit here for a few minutes.

On a more humorous note, I wonder how Lelouch maintains a fairly nice body with that kind of stamina, as seen in one of the picture book episode XD I mean, yeah, everyone wants to see an attractive main character, but come on, Sunrise. After making fun of his physical inability that much?

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I chose not to post for Turn 4 since I only had one thing to chat about, and it already had plenty of other posts. You can still catch it here (http://nayami.livejournal.com/603620.html#cutid1).

Well, it's just one take, but I think it only fair that people look at all the options before jumping to ZOMG BASTARD. Not that Suzaku isn't being a bit of a bastard, using the very thing that hurts Lelouch most. But again, fight fire with fire.

Human nature hmm? I suppose I can see that. It was more the two statements contradicting each other in the same episode that made me giggle.

Seriously, that picture drama lies more than Suzaku and Lelouch COMBINED.

[inulovinkit.livejournal.com]

I think Suzaku already KNOWS Lulu has gotten his memories back. I'm pretty sure he figured that from Turn 2. And he knows how good of an actor Lelouch is.

The Nunally thing PROVED Suzaku knew that Lelouch is Zero now, and isn't gonna take any of Lelouch's bullshit. While Lelouch can go "a ha ha, you can't PROVE that I'm Zero...<3" SUZAKU MEANS BUSINESS.

I am actually hoping for a moment in Turn 6 where Lelouch and Suzaku both tell the truth to each other, and say they aren't holding back the minute they're on the battlefield. Cuz come ON. Lelouch still pretending to be memoryhaxed after what Suzaku just pulled? I THINK NOT.

[dodgeroll.livejournal.com]

I'm going to sleep in about five minutes, but I have to say that ILU for this post. ♥

It gives me hope in fandom. XDXD

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I just want fandom to remember Geass can be thought about once in a while. You can laugh at the crack but still poke at the plot.

[arhel.livejournal.com]

Good analysis, giving thought to all sides.

The entire Nunnally thing seems to be the writers trying to wean Lelouch away from total emotional dependence on his sister, because it's been again and again highlighted as a major flaw in his plans. It makes him human, but it also makes him make poor decisions whenever she's involved, and he has to overcome that first. I'd prefer to reserve judgment on the whole Nunnally affair until we see more of it.

My first thought at seeing the unfinished cross is that Carve-tan was a casualty of the Rebellion. Thinking back on it, however, was it coincidence that Rolo brought up his own Geass' weakness in this episode? Maybe there are nullifiers or limitations that we don't know about yet? If he still has the "live" Geass, things could get pretty unfortunately for Suzaku even without any catastrophic backfiring - he's always had a martyr complex, wants to die to save other people (not sure how that's gone now, but). The Geass could force him to abandon his allies to die to save his own skin, if it is activated.

I agree especially with the interaction with Millay. Out of all the scenes with Suzaku in this episode, he seemed to give the most... unguarded? Natural? response when she was asking about Lloyd. As much as Suzaku tries to keep his distance from other people, there are still those he obviously cares about.

And on that note, the KoR worry me. We haven't seen enough of Anya, but Gino is trying very hard to crack Suzaku's mask, and heaven help him if he actually succeeds, given what usually happens to characters in that position (espeically in mecha anime). It's kind of sad that he is introduced as such a likeable character but seems (from genre convention) to be utterly doomed.

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I think it's interesting you bring up the "weaning" concept since lulu_quality pointed out that in the OP Lelouch's anguished expression as he reaches for Nunnally gradually changes to one of fierce determination. I doubt Lelouch will ever give Nunnally up, but maybe he will learn to manage his falling apart when she's not safe as far as he is concerned. I also note that during the preview for Turn 6, Lelouch sounds more jealous than worried about Nunnally. Lelouch has always been so very jealous when it comes to those he loves. Take Suzaku and Euphie. From either angle even.

The creators have promised things will go badly for Suzaku when it comes to the Geass. This is why I am hesitant to buy into theories of Geass limits. Unless Suzaku's geass does its terrible job and then fades.

I think everyone knows Gino is doomed. After losing Euphie, anything is possible.

[pimp.livejournal.com]

I'm in love with your analysis, and I don't have enough time to post a coherent comment.

BUT. Your theories about Suzaku while supporting him against all the people going bathit at him, ILUSM!

[nayami.livejournal.com]

Thank you. I am always happy to see more willing to give Suzaku a chance.

[braver.livejournal.com]

I agree, a thousand times!

Especially this part:
Also in response to people's whining about Suzaku's goals being foolish and ill-thought and liable to only be a band-aid... umm we're supporting someone who thinks he can overthrow an entire empire... and then what? Suddenly free people

Like changing the government from the inside out is an easy thing to do, but Suzaku is too much a dumbass to do it properly or whatever excuse they have. *shakes head* People keep saying that Suzaku hasn't accomplished what he has set out to do, but in that aspect, neither has Zero in his goal of liberating Japan from Britannia -- Both have accomplished a lot of things, but they haven't achieved both their goals. X3

[nayami.livejournal.com]

I found it most ironic that since Turn 2, people have complained and complained that Suzaku is doing nothing for Japan. Now he says he's working toward DOING SOMETHING, and all the haters can say is that it won't work and that he's naive and every other random reason they can come up with to bitch. I would understand Suzaku hate much better if its proponents could pose a worthwhile argument that didn't deride Suzaku for doing the EXACT SAME THING LELOUCH DOES.

[x-drear-x.livejournal.com]

Agree so much on the point about Nunnally. The fact that both Lelouch and Suzaku love her was emphasized so much in S1 I don't know how anyone can think either of them would hurt her. The idea of Suzaku actually harming her is a little ridiculous. Plus is she even with him? He had to go to extremes if he wanted to have a chance at exposing Lelouch after all.
Also, Nunnally must have some idea what's going on. She just wants her onii-sama, bless her ;_;